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[quote user="You can call me Betty"]

Maybe before outright condemnation of people doing things under the guise of "religion", and the assumption that this only applies to "other" religions (whatever you choose that to mean) you might all care to read the headlines in today's Times?http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3174882.ece

While you're at it, have a look at the actual number of "faith schools" at the bottom of the article. If, as has been contended elsewhere in this thread, there's a muslim takeover bid for the UK, it's certainly not happening in the education sector, is it?

 

[/quote]

Probably better off ignoring the numbers as they seem very inaccurate, especially when it comes to the number of muslim schools, they say 2 when this site (which incidentally is a muslim education website, states 127) http://www.ams-uk.org/

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

Lots of horrible things are done in the name of "religion" or "faith" but on the other hand millions practice their beliefs without ever causing harm to others.  It has always seemed to me that those individuals who are naturally unpleasant use their religious doctrines as a cloak for performing unspeakable acts.  They would probably have acted badly, even without the "excuse" - they just feel it gives them some sort of moral justification.  Tough to argue with anybody who thinks that there's an afterlife where they will be rewarded for doing these horrible things - what punishment can mere mortals give them that will in any way alter their agenda when they have such a belief system?

But I still reckon that the majority of people of all faiths and nationalities do not act in this way - happily human nature is better than many people give it credit for and most people really can tell right from wrong.  And make no mistake, crimes committed under the excuse of "faith" have been going on since time immemorial, it wasn't any better 20 years ago (or 200 for that matter) - it's simply that we hear more about it now.

[/quote]

Cooperlola

As you quite righly said, there are good and bad people in all faiths. However most of these people act badly contrary to their religious beliefs not in accordance with it. The amputation of limbs in Saudi is not carried out by individuals for pleasure who later try to use religion to justify it, they are carried out by the Mutaween or religious police, in accordance with sharia law. Similarly the stoning of women is done under sharia law. The recent case in Saudi of a girl sentenced to 200 lashes for being gang raped was done under sharia law. A recent survey of young muslims in the UK showed that around 40% would like to see sharia law in the UK. I am sure many of them only want it to apply to people of their faith but the thought of any part of it finding its way into our judicial system makes my blood run cold.

It amazes me these people drop a veil of silence when it comes to a young woman who is murdered by her family, but are quite vocal when a cartoonist draws a stupid cartoon!!! The world is going mad.

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People in positions of power are no less susceptible to evil doing than those who are not (possibly more so - Robert Mugabe springs to mind) - that does not mean that the entire population under their control is in agreement with what goes on.  The problem of course is - that with religion as a motivation, they appear to have power over your afterlife as well as life on earth.  What you describe has gone on for centuries (read the bible) - the world is not "going mad" - these things have always happened.

The problem lies with those in control. As Robert Reed (former BR chairman) once said - "It's like a septic tank - the sh*t floats to the top."

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

... - the world is not "going mad" - these things have always happened.

[/quote]

Maybe the what is "mad" is that the human race cannot manage and improve on these things.  We can see them happening, recognise them as being wrong, etc. but seem unable to do anything about it.  Makes one wonder how far civilisation has come.

Ian

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

People in positions of power are no less susceptible to evil doing than those who are not (possibly more so - Robert Mugabe springs to mind) - that does not mean that the entire population under their control is in agreement with what goes on.  The problem of course is - that with religion as a motivation, they appear to have power over your afterlife as well as life on earth.  What you describe has gone on for centuries (read the bible) - the world is not "going mad" - these things have always happened.

The problem lies with those in control. As Robert Reed (former BR chairman) once said - "It's like a septic tank - the sh*t floats to the top."

[/quote]

So who are the people in control who need to be blamed when a father kills his daughter for honour, the British government? The clerics?

This post was originally about changing traditions so as not to offend, a form of political correctness. I think PC is a terrible illness and the UK in my opinion suffers from it worse that most other countries. In the case of the teacher in Sudan, David Milliband wanted her to STAY IN PRISON, all in the name of PC. And the guy is still in office.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=500631&in_page_id=1770

 

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[quote user="oakbri"]

Probably better off ignoring the numbers as they seem very inaccurate, especially when it comes to the number of muslim schools, they say 2 when this site (which incidentally is a muslim education website, states 127) http://www.ams-uk.org/

[/quote]

No inaccuracy, oakbri.  Betty's statistics mention only state schools, whereas the ones you refer to cover all Muslim schools.  At present almost all Muslim schools asre privately funded.

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[quote user="Deimos"][quote user="cooperlola"]

... - the world is not "going mad" - these things have always happened.

[/quote]

Maybe the what is "mad" is that the human race cannot manage and improve on these things.  We can see them happening, recognise them as being wrong, etc. but seem unable to do anything about it.  Makes one wonder how far civilisation has come.

Ian
[/quote]True, sadly.  Millions are opressed by these regimes (the case of the young girl is rare in Britain as it is illegal and certainly not condoned,)but these things go on all the time in other parts of the world and we do nothing. Often, one suspects, for economic reasons.  We don't want to fall out with nations like Saudi Arabia because we want their oil.  It's not about being pc but about not offending those whom we "need".  And it's tough to know what we do about it.  But tarring everybody who shares the same faith with the same brush is not a good start, imo.
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[quote user="KathyF"][quote user="oakbri"]

Probably better off ignoring the numbers as they seem very inaccurate, especially when it comes to the number of muslim schools, they say 2 when this site (which incidentally is a muslim education website, states 127) http://www.ams-uk.org/

[/quote]

No inaccuracy, oakbri.  Betty's statistics mention only state schools, whereas the ones you refer to cover all Muslim schools.  At present almost all Muslim schools asre privately funded.

[/quote]

 

Thanks Kathy. And the Times article actually says 5, if you count both primary and secondary.[;-)]

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If a religiously funded school wants to get state funding they have to be organised to provide the state curriculum in the basic subjects. This means taking on teachers who are suitably trained. Also some of the secular curriculum might be contrary to their religious beliefs and practises, so they keep to the private funding even though it's hard financially.
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Maybe the problem lies with the fact that we don't understand other countries cultures or why they have developed the way they have? The UK tries to be the most tolerant but unfortunately the other religions and culture try to enforce their rules on the UKers. The Government is so scared of offending any VOTER they just pander to them all.The problems in Northern Ireland  set a good example, after 50 years of Roman Catholics versus Protestants, has this deep seated hatred and mistrust now gone?I've always thought the only reason the UK armed forces where there,was to look after the English Lords lands and property. The only gain after 50+ years of bloodshed appears to be 2 M.P.s Perhaps the UK needs a revolution and a new start.

REgards.

 

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  • 1 year later...

Hello

Not wishing to drag all of the arguments in this thread back up again I did want to reassure you all that quite contrary to the OP I can declare the nativity in UK schools is alive and well as I have just witnessed said event at my sons school!  In fact it was quite over the top religious wise which was a surprise, with some children circling the audience with banners stating god is love etc. etc..  All the songs were tradtional and all sung with gusto. 

It was all in all an enjoyable spectacle, I now live near to the primary school I attended and I felt there was little difference in what I saw today to that which my own parents witnessed some 30 odd years ago.

Panda, reporting from middle england.....

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Ha, yes!

I am now planning my next reports which are;

Why have I not been police checked despite taking a herd of kids to school and picking them up on a regular basis?

Why the playgrounds are all open to anyone when other reports suggest the presence of spcialist playground police to ensure parents and grandparents can't play with their own kids!

Over and out xx

 

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makes me laugh, UK & US continue sending thousands of troops to the middle east, to fight battles they cannot win....

They should send them to UK and start to fight for the return of our own country.....

a damn disgrace.....
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[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

Who is it occupied by then TJ, if you feel that strongly, have the courage of your beliefs and tell us all. 

[/quote]

Exactly right Tony. If you are going to make statements like that you need to say exactly what you are talking about. I think we could all guess to what he/she is thinking about but we may be wrong so its better to say up front and save confusion.

Hows the renovating business TJ? By the way your signature link no longer links to your website.

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Your not wrong,

As much as it pains me to say so, our native country is no more, and until such time as the powers that be address the situation it will continue its decline.

As british citizens we are on regular basis stripped of another part of our heritage and culture in the name of PC etc , only it appears we as native citizens have no right to same considerations.

Global village, Multicultural society, all sound great, until you try and put it into practice ,,,,,,

Tragic to see the destruction of a once proud and patriotic nation.
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