France paying the price for 'historic error' of 35-hour week

[Clair]

Hear Hear!

France paying the price for "historic error" of 35-hour week

[woolybanana]

What I have never established is whether government employees still do only 35 hours.

[NormanH]

It was a hugely courageous measure which acts as a model.

[woolybanana]

Rubbish Norman, it was idealistic cattle turds, based on a stipud outdated Socialism which privileged the public, parasitic service and put many companies in danger.

[AnOther]

[quote user="NormanH"]It was a hugely courageous measure which acts as a model.

[/quote]Just as there is a fine line between genius and madness the demarcation between courage and stupidity is equally blurred.

A model - yes - but in how to get it wrong.

Idealistically of course everybody would be able to work less but that's all it is, an ideal, In a modern competitive environment you buck the norm (no pun intended) at your economic peril, as the French have discovered, and as I suspect, and hope, striking BA staff are about to.

[babcock]

[quote user="NormanH"]It was a hugely courageous measure which acts as a model.
[/quote]

So if I am paid basic wage €8.82 per hour I am only ALLOWED to earn €308.70 per week. If my child needs new shoes I can't put in a few extra hours to pay for them and Christmas treats - forget it. This idea is only welcomed by salaried people. As for a courageous measure it was in fact another badly thought through French idea.  Another thing I have been told (and I am sure that someone will correct me if wrong) is that those, like hospital doctors, who have to work longer at times cannot be paid but must build up holiday credit. So at some time all the doctors will be on holiday. I am also told by a friend trying to build up a restaurant business that serving staff must be employed for a minimum of 24 hours a week. This means that an embryonic resto has very, very little chance of success.

 

 

[woolybanana]

I deliberately chatted to lots of French workers about it. Most were happy to have free time so that they could do other things, quite a bit of it black work. This was because they did not earn enough to take advantage of their new free time. None said that they spent much more time with their families or improved themselves, and actually found that part of the idea rather patronizing.

Those that had heavy hobbies, like serious boating and who could have most of Friday off were delighted though.

It was/is a stupid, doctrinaire, controlling measure that failed even to create many more jobs. Far braver would have been to lift the restrictions on working hours and allow people to earn according to their perceived needs. But I fear NormanH's politics would never allow people to have that degree of freedom.

[Panda]

 

Following on to theme on how restrictive employment laws hurts small businesses, I was employed part-time last year by a very small business.  I wanted to help the owner with whom I am now good friends but was shocked to find how difficult it was for me to be flexible in my hours and her to remain legal.  As an example some days the office was quiet and she (ski instructor) had no lessons, so you would think if I agreed I could go home and leave her in charge to save us both sitting there waiting for the phone or a customer, no not possible.  My contract stated a set number of hours, I could not work less, not without a new contract which as this was a day to day thing meant normally she just paid the office person (me) to do very little.  We worked it out between us as I did not want to be paid for doing nothing, indeed I would rather be ski-ing but if an inspector had turned up I was told I had to state my hours as the contracted ones.

How can this make any sense, if I agree to something I am ont being exploited, as a small business she wants staff when she needs them.

I also had to go for a medical miles away, ridiculous expense to this small business, had to pay my petrol, my time etc.  just for a doctor to take my pulse and declare me fit to sit in an office.

I also caused a stir by asking to take holiday during a quiet period, this is apprently madness by french standards, I am entitled to holiday pay at the end of the season I was told, I should not be forced to take holiday at a time when I could be sitting doing nothing in the office, it was my right as a seasonal worker to have busy and non busy times. 

After that season I am not surprised that french businesses struggle, I could not get through that I wanted to support the business by working the required hours, I wanted to be off when it suited the business so that the business would survive.  My firend the owner says she will always employ brits as they want to work and not play the system.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Panda"]My firend the owner says she will always employ brits as they want to work and not play the system.[/quote]They must be a different breed from the regulars then [6]

[NormanH]

[quote user="babcock"]

[quote user="NormanH"]It was a hugely courageous measure which acts as a model.

[/quote]

So if I am paid basic wage €8.82 per hour I am only ALLOWED to earn €308.70 per week. If my child needs new shoes I can't put in a few extra hours to pay for them and Christmas treats - forget it. This idea is only welcomed by salaried people. As for a courageous measure it was in fact another badly thought through French idea.  Another thing I have been told (and I am sure that someone will correct me if wrong) is that those, like hospital doctors, who have to work longer at times cannot be paid but must build up holiday credit. So at some time all the doctors will be on holiday. I am also told by a friend trying to build up a restaurant business that serving staff must be employed for a minimum of 24 hours a week. This means that an embryonic resto has very, very little chance of success.

 

 

[/quote]

You obviously don't understand the system, but of course that doesn't stop you expressing your opinion.

The 35 hour week meant that a worker was paid for 39 hours but only had to work 35.

It never said that overtime was banned.

So where does your comment ' I am only ALLOWED to earn €308.70 per week' come from?

[NormanH]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="NormanH"]It was a hugely courageous measure which acts as a model.

[/quote]Just as there is a fine line between genius and madness the demarcation between courage and stupidity is equally blurred.

In a modern competitive environment you buck the norm (no pun intended) at your economic peril, as the French have discovered,

[/quote]

So you find that French businesses are less productive with the 35 hour week than their UK equivalents?

[Frenchie]

Most people I know are happy with the 35 hour week !

Don't forget that our great grand parents , or grand parents depending on how old you are, had only sunday as a day of rest, and worked ludicrous hours, then , much later , there were the 39 heures,  and the 35 hours, to me,  is social progress.

A chacun son opinion, voilà tout, et l'appréciation qu'on en a  dénote d'une couleur politique.

Bonne journée à toutes et tous .

[cooperlola]

Well, Frenchie, although the experiment may have failed in some terms I tend to agree with you.  Surely with more people on the planet and more automation then it ought to be bettter if more of us have work but do less each day? - thus spreading the load of the work and increasing everybody's leisure time.  It does seem mad for some to be working ludicrous hours with all the resultant stress while others struggle to find employment of any kind.

In the companies I worked where the senior management cared less about how many hours the staff did and more about what they produced, there was more success in economic terms than in those where the bosses were obsessed with everybody being around for more hours than was healthy.  As a senior manager myself I also found that my staff worked better if I just concentrated on the end product of their labours and didn't make a fuss about what time they arrived and what time they left each day.