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The aftermath of the storm.


Bugsy
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No, Norman, that is an unfair comment.

There HAS been mention of Haiti and Chile in passing.  But, of course, those places are nowhere near where people on the Forum live, have friends or family.

It's natural, IMHO, for people to concentrate first of all on circumstances near home and then further afield.

After all, there might be people dying all round the world but, if it's a member of your own family or indeed if your own life were in jeopardy, then it would tend to concentrate your mind on the matter in hand.

Just natural, Norman, and natural does not equate to uncaring.

And, much as I love you, I will not have you making such ill conceived comments, so there!

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Why do people think it hasn't been mentioned on the BBC ? Its certainly been on the radio and there has been coverage on the BBC news web site. I'm sorry but I've been too busy to watch TV.

 Norman if you want to discuss  Chile, why not start the topic yourself ?

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I may be wrong but I think the sea defences at  L'Aguillon .sur Mer have been in place since Napoleon had them worked on..... so they have had plenty of time to up grade them .But perhaps they thought as they have withstood so much over the years they would last for ever ? 
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Oh for heavens sake Norman - yes we've commiserated about Haiti and Chile - what more do you want us to do or say ?    

We've sympathised with those on this forum who have direct connection with  Haiti  or Chile but as it is very unlikely any of us have family, friends or property over there it's a bit difficult to say very much more than what has already been said.

Or do you want a detailed list of how much - financially - I've donated to the various Aid and Emergency Charities involved in both places ?

Do you want everyone on this Forum to start listing all their financial help to the Emergency Funds ?

Get over it Chum;  people on this Forum will have helped financially - but will NOT be patting themselves on the back - or expecting others to think how wonderful they are - by announcing how much financial donation they have made.

France is where a lot of us on this Forum live;   France is where our relatives in the UK  have someone living;  France is where our friends in the UK have someone living.....those of us who live in France have friends who live in other Departments in France.

Yes of course what we experienced is put into the shade by Haiti and Chile ;  but you are implying that we shouldn't even talk about our little 'windy' adventure and should be going round weeping, wailing and gnashing our teeth over something that has happened thousands of miles away.   What constructive help would that be ?

What we are doing here Norman - is being FRIENDLY, HELPFUL, SUPPORTIVE AND NEIGHBOURLY.

If you want to know how much I've donated to the Aid  Appeals for Haiti and Chile - then you can PM ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chessie

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[quote user="NormanH"]

"And hardly a mention in the British media ........... well, the BBC.

Many deaths, injuries & flooding, just across the Channel, and hardly a word. They're more interested in, well just about anything else."



And no mention on the whole on this Forum  of the much greater disaster in Chile.

Of course for well heeled second home owners, or immigrants shielded by temporary wealth something like this is shocking, because it could have happened to them, whereas frequent reports of death and disaster that affect 'lesser breeds' in other continents don't count.
[/quote]

Well CNN has covered the floods widely (in between Chile updates) and Norman your comment was rather tacky - pas digne de toi.

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Interestingly, my first sight of this awful storm was on the UK media and I have followed it ever since on Sky, BBC and the European channels, France24 and EuroNews...

NormanH said, "Of course for well heeled second home owners, or immigrants shielded by temporary wealth something like this is shocking, because it could have happened to them, whereas frequent reports of death and disaster that affect 'lesser breeds' in other continents don't count..."

What a sad, miserable attitude. And as Russethouse has asked, why did you not start a thread on the subjects that concern you so much? And how much have you personally donated to them?
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Norman didn't start a thread about Chile because he's always berating us for discussing non-French topics.

The fact that he then jumps into a thread on such a disaster as this and tries to score some little point for I know not what reason just beggars belief.

For the comment on second home owners there smacks a bit of the green eyed monster.

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Surely best ignored.

To get back on topic.

The 'blame game' looks to be starting now

BBC NEWS

Its been suggested that waves reaching 8 metres in height rushed through that area. If that is true, which is rather difficult to believe, surely no walls or banks could have prevented what happened.

.

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I used to go there often as I lived relatively close by. Sea damage to the old sea walls took place more or less every year and they were patched and patched but certainly no longer fit for purpose

Undoubtedly there was a huge water surge, but I doubt it was 8metres. However, as the estates were below sea level, it is not surprising that the water rushed down to their level.
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[quote user="Bugsy"]Surely best ignored.

To get back on topic.

The 'blame game' looks to be starting now

BBC NEWS

Its been suggested that waves reaching 8 metres in height rushed through that area. If that is true, which is rather difficult to believe, surely no walls or banks could have prevented what happened.
.
[/quote]

Why is that difficult to believe?

When the eye of the tempest hit the Charente Maritime/Vendée coast line a 40,000 square kilometre body of water with on average 6 metre high waves accompanied it; you only have to factor in the high tide and a steady 160 kilometre per hour wind being channeled into the L'Aiguillon Estuary.

Difficult to believe, not at all, INEVITABLE! 

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[quote user="pachapapa"]Why is that difficult to believe?

When the eye of the tempest hit the Charente Maritime/Vendée coast line a 40,000 square kilometre body of water with on average 6 metre high waves accompanied it; you only have to factor in the high tide and a steady 160 kilometre per hour wind being channeled into the L'Aiguillon Estuary.

Difficult to believe, not at all, INEVITABLE! 

[/quote]

"Mer was breached, allowing 8m-high (26ft) waves to crash through the streets. "

Well its certainly not worth arguing about but that is higher than many houses and a 26 feet wall of water would not have left many houses in its path intact.

The much shown helicopter footage of the devastation clearly shows flooded houses but they all appear to still have their roofs intact.

If you compare that to the town of Pelluhue in Chile. It was hit by three

waves, the largest averaging 6 metres in height and 300 homes simply

disappeared

I'm in no way doubting the awful devastation just struggling with that quote.

.

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You would strugle even more with the comments last night of the President of the Conseil Generale de la Vendée.

Not our fault, it could never have been foreseen it was a combination of three events never seen before.

1. Spring high tide - sorry mate but that comes every year and is not due yet.

2. 200 km/h winds - I think that was an exaggeration

3. An atmospheric depression that lifted the sea so high that it came over the digue - that one really made me laugh, it could not possibly have been wave damage like they suffer every year that breached the digue could it? [8-)]

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[quote user="NormanH"]

"
And no mention on the whole on this Forum  of the much greater disaster in Chile.

[/quote]

Not true Norman, on page 1 I posted the following.

It appears to have passed through here without a whisper, my thoughts are with those in Chilé, Les iles de Paques and Les Marquises.

At that stage I was unaware of the loss of life in France and was concerned with the Tsunami predicted for French territory..

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[quote user="Chancer"]

You would strugle even more with the comments last night of the President of the Conseil Generale de la Vendée.

Not our fault, it could never have been foreseen it was a combination of three events never seen before.

1. Spring high tide - sorry mate but that comes every year and is not due yet.

2. 200 km/h winds - I think that was an exaggeration

3. An atmospheric depression that lifted the sea so high that it came over the digue - that one really made me laugh, it could not possibly have been wave damage like they suffer every year that breached the digue could it? [8-)]

[/quote]

 

Was that the chap who was interviewed wearing sunglasses after dark? Perhaps he was hiding behind them. I thought he looked a bit silly. I admit I didn't catch all of what he said, but his body language said it all.

FairyNuff

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Has anybody any idea to what extent poor and perhaps even fraudulous town planning was involved and when? These houses seem to me (I do NOT know the area) to have been built in a totally unsuitable area- land which should have been left clear of building to absorb such events. If the area 'seemed' to be adequately protected at the time by the digues - then surely as digues become unrepairable, etc, proper planning should take this into account (as they are doing in Norfolk and other coastal areas in the UK)- and at the very least should have been evacuated with a such a predictable triple event. Incredibly sad ... and preventable. My heart goes to all those who are suffering now and have lost friends and family.

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chancer

They had 234kmh registered as the maximum in the Haute Pyrenees, admittedly high up, but lots of places noted >200kmh.

One of the reasons there wasn't more damage here was that the tempete of last year took out most of the old/knackered trees/houses. We were lucky, lots of people were not and I think the finger pointing will go on for a while yet.
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[quote user="Bugsy"][quote user="pachapapa"]Why is that difficult to believe?

When the eye of the tempest hit the Charente Maritime/Vendée coast line a 40,000 square kilometre body of water with on average 6 metre high waves accompanied it; you only have to factor in the high tide and a steady 160 kilometre per hour wind being channeled into the L'Aiguillon Estuary.

Difficult to believe, not at all, INEVITABLE! 

[/quote]

"Mer was breached, allowing 8m-high (26ft) waves to crash through the streets. "

Well its certainly not worth arguing about but that is higher than many houses and a 26 feet wall of water would not have left many houses in its path intact.

The much shown helicopter footage of the devastation clearly shows flooded houses but they all appear to still have their roofs intact.

If you compare that to the town of Pelluhue in Chile. It was hit by three waves, the largest averaging 6 metres in height and 300 homes simply disappeared

I'm in no way doubting the awful devastation just struggling with that quote.
.


[/quote]

Edit I note aftetr posting that there are asterisks; the original word intended to describe a sort of wall built to prevent the incursion of water; such structures are called levées in New Orleans; also lots of them in Holland around the polders with windmills on them.[:D]

The BBC report is inaccurate the commune being discussed is La Faute sur Mer, not L'Aiguillon, as suggested by the BBC.

The communes are on different sides of the L'Aiguillon River. If we consider heights above mean sea level then a crest height of 8 metres would have been required to cause the initial breach.

The residential area is "protected" by a dyke on the east following the river, on the west there are large sand dunes and an elevated roadway; incidentally the beach at La Faute is exceptionally wide due to the fact that the prevailing current on the Vendée coast is from north to south causing deposition of sand. The peninsula formed by the sand bar increases it's length substantially each year towards the coast line of the Marais Poitevin. As a result the residential area under consideration has a  higher elevation on the west side and the greater depth of flooding has taken place on the east side closer to the breached dyke. The facts of the matter are that the whole length of the dyke was not simultaneously destroyed by the storm surge; despite what the BBC may try to convince you.

It might be useful to consider the rather different circumstances prevailing, post flood, on the Isle de Ré, next to La Rochelle, where the manner of failure of the dyke has been due to the build up of pressure by the increase in sea level along the length of the dyke and ultimately the thrust due to the weight of the water causing large portions of the dyke to simultaneously fail in an almost explosive manner. The final result is that the Isle de Ré has been returned to its earlier 12th century configuration, in one night of storm; so basically there are now three islands connected by shallow sea.

But in my opinion the various facets of the damage and tragedy can be concisely summed up as follows:

1) Damage to property which was foreseeable.

2) Loss of life which was preventable.

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Well, thats a lot of information but none of it changes my original view that it was difficult to believe this comment.

A point that you contradicted.

"Mer was breached, allowing 8m-high (26ft) waves to crash through the streets. "

There is simply no evidence to support this.

A 26 foot wave crashing through the streets would cause total destruction of properties in its path.

That did not happen.

.

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Calm down ladies (said in a Michael Winner voice) [:)]

When was the BBC ever known for letting accuracy get in the way of a good story?

Would "allowing water from the waves of up to 6 meters high to flow through the streets" be more acceptable to you?

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A new road was built running parallel to the coast some 1km or less inland that by passes the resort villages ..Has been open a  year or so  now . This road was constructed on top of a bank ...From what I have seen it appears that this road has stopped a lot of the water from coming further inland ....Thankfully for some but may have added to the depth of the water in L'Agullion .? . I have been told the camping and caravan site to the rear of the SuperU is under water ... This is going to hit the tourist income of the area very hard this year ..Many shops and resturants only open for the summer .its about now they prepare their places  ready to open up at Easter .  My favorite restaurant is in the Hotel facing the bridge and I am told its up river from them the retaining bank  is collapsed  so the Hotel I imagine is under water .. That can be put right ..my thoughts are with the hotel owner and the staff who may now have no income .  

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