1400 homes in zone noir to be destroyed

[Chancer]

http://videos.tf1.fr/jt-20h/xynthia-les-larmes-et-la-colere-des-sinistres-5803378.html

It is said that each foyer will touche an indemnity of around 1/4 million Euros.

[woolybanana]

25% of a commune is a heck of a lot.

[NormanH]

Well they can knock down my house and give me 240,000 euros as soon as they like..

[woolybanana]

Great Bobo, the most expensive barrel in the world. Now if you were in it at the time Normie....[;-)]

[Quillan]

Bit late Chancer

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2055232/ShowPost.aspx

The numbers have gone up between the two reports. I guess there has been a bit of French fiddling going on in between.

[Chancer]

It was only yeterday that the actual numbers were known and those who would or would not lose their homes got to know, the very strong emotiuons of either anguish or relief were plain to see.

It dominated all of the French news programs so I dont see why you say it was a bit late.

I realise that I am one of a small minority that watch the French news, would you prefer that I didnt post things like this?

[woolybanana]

Quillan has confused the speculative talk with the final decisions which were only announced yesterday, though there will probably now be a battle through the courts by those who want to stay and /or those who do not feel they have been sufficiently indemnified and those who were not contained in the list to be demolished and would like to be.

But no Chancer, I certainly want to have discussions about topics like this, because I nearly bought in that area many years ago.

[Sunday Driver]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2010/04/08/01016-20100408ARTFIG00543-xynthia-les-zones-noires-presentees-aux-habitants-.php

Final decisions have been published, but it seems that Dominique Bussereau has announced that 'nothing has been set in stone' and that "there may be some compromises if studies show that for a particular house, you can find other solutions."

 

[Kitty]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]"there may be some compromises if studies show that for a particular house, you can find other solutions." [/quote]

... like building a second storey?  It was in the bungalows where people died, unable to escape upstairs - ground floor doors could not open because of the force of the water.

[dragonrouge]

But of course NormanH that would mean you would benefit and we cannot have that can we?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Cathy"][quote user="Sunday Driver"]"there may be some compromises if studies show that for a particular house, you can find other solutions." [/quote]

... like building a second storey?  It was in the bungalows where people died, unable to escape upstairs - ground floor doors could not open because of the force of the water.

[/quote]

In fact if the french authorities had not been incompetent the low-lying and below mean sea-level areas would have been evacuated resulting in NO LOSS OF LIFE.

The designation of black zones of mortal danger would concomitantly have never occured and a different scenario would have developed.

I see today that Ségo has jumped on the bandwaggon together with 36 mayors from Charente Maritime to create a vociferous "fronde", openly critical of the wisdom of the "leader".

Obviously a spark of well organised resistance from the Vendée which suffered greater UNNECESSARY loss of life is expected.

[pachapapa]

Black Zone chip-in by "Houdini" Borloo this morning in La Rochelle; a developing link. Is the "leader's" stand firm stance a quick-sandy foot print!

http://www.20minutes.fr/article/398122/France-Jean-Louis-Borloo-Il-y-a-eu-un-malentendu-sur-les-zones-noires.php

[Salty Sam]

[quote]In fact if the french authorities had not been incompetent the low-lying and below mean sea-level areas would have been evacuated resulting in NO LOSS OF LIFE.[/quote]

A very bold statement to make from somebody I suspect has little knowledge of  flood rescue, and a damning slight on the French rescue services!

One of the major problems regarding man-made flood defence systems is that once breached, floodwater cannot escape. A defence system may have sustained attacks from the elements previously, unfortunately freak conditions don't come into the equation.

The simple answer in the future is a 'No Building' rule on low lying areas re-categorized as flood plain. Apart from coastal regions, inland areas where there are a convergence of water courses should also have flood plain areas free of habitation.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

[quote]In fact if the french authorities had not been incompetent the low-lying and below mean sea-level areas would have been evacuated resulting in NO LOSS OF LIFE.[/quote]

A very bold statement to make from somebody I suspect has little knowledge of  flood rescue, and a damning slight on the French rescue services!

One of the major problems regarding man-made flood defence systems is that once breached, floodwater cannot escape. A defence system may have sustained attacks from the elements previously, unfortunately freak conditions don't come into the equation.

The simple answer in the future is a 'No Building' rule on low lying areas re-categorized as flood plain. Apart from coastal regions, inland areas where there are a convergence of water courses should also have flood plain areas free of habitation.

[/quote]

If you re-read the line which you have quoted, with dilligence and perception, you may appreciate that the areas would have been EVACUATED prior to the flooding event. The french flood rescue services would have not been tested in the efficacity of their endeavours.

[Salty Sam]

I suggest you use diligence and perception and note what I stated i.e.;

[quote]One of the major problems regarding man-made flood defence systems is that once breached, floodwater cannot escape. A defence system may have sustained attacks from the elements previously, unfortunately freak conditions don't come into the equation.[/quote]

Pray tell how one can calculate the onset of a freak sequence of events, or do you suggest a mass evacuation of all low lying areas everytime there happens to be storm surges ?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

I suggest you use diligence and perception and note what I stated i.e.;

[quote]One of the major problems regarding man-made flood defence systems is that once breached, floodwater cannot escape. A defence system may have sustained attacks from the elements previously, unfortunately freak conditions don't come into the equation.[/quote]

Pray tell how one can calculate the onset of a freak sequence of events, or do you suggest a mass evacuation of all low lying areas everytime there happens to be storm surges ?

[/quote]

You are beginning to generalise the issue rather than considering the events leading up to the flooding in the Vendée and Charente-Maritime; the result was foreseeable and not a freak event. The lack of competence by the french authorities on that specific occasion resulted in the french rescue services being exposed to considerable danger and extremely difficult conditions in accomplishing their duties. The french citizens of the affected areas can be proud and indeed grateful for the exemplary manner in which their rescue services fulfilled their duties.In particular the unique circumstances pertaining in the residential area of La Faute sur Mer illustrate graphically the ability of the french rescue services to react quickly and effectively to particularly difficult conditions.

[Salty Sam]

I am not generalising the issue, and please don't preach to me about flood rescue.

Unlike you, from a rescue angle I have been involved in several severe floods where authorities were aware of a possibility that existing defences would be at risk, and where defences have failed, the rescue services are always exposed to considerable danger in accomplishing their duties.

There are sophisticated computer models which plot tidal ranges, weather, storm forecasts, and everything else which is likely to produce conditions affecting low lying land. The computer models are extremely accurate in forecasting, but they cannot forecast a freak tidal surge - but you obviously know differently. Irrespective which country you are in, rescue services are in a minority manpower wise, and the idea a large number of personnel can be despatched to a specific site before a unknown event has occurred, is something of a fairy tale I'm afraid.

The lack of competence lies with the authorities who allowed the building of homes on a flood area, behind an inadequate defence which failed.

[pachapapa]

The site at La Faute sur Mer and the other areas in Charente Maritime are competely different. In another thread the word "corruption " was mentioned in respect of one of them. It would assist in not filling this thread with noise which seriously diminishes the S/N ratio by relating your irrelevant reminiscences on your personal flood control anecdotes. I can also see no relevance to any of the flood events in the Vendée or the Charente Maritime regarding your introduction of computer models. Is this just filling space with information from Wikipedia or does it serve any purpose in the analysis of the French Atlantic Coast events on the night of the 27th-28th of march?

[Salty Sam]

I do not obtain information via Wikipedia. Your latest response is another classic example of both your arrogance and ignorance, and clearly indicates your lack of ability to comprehend the events in question.

It would appear my "relating irrelevant reminiscences on personal flood control anecdotes" fails to strike a chord with your obvious extensive knowledge of the subject but thankfully, these "irrelevant reminiscences" have proved beneficial to many who secure a professional opinion.

May I suggest you take your own advice in "not filling this thread with noise". Despite what you would like to believe, you are not an expert on every subject.

[Quillan]

Look chaps its a lovely day, the sun is out peeking through the volcanic ash so why not grab a beer and go chill in the garden for a while and leave it at that. [B] [I] [;-)]

[Benjamin]

The question which I've asked myself many times since the event and will, ultimately, need answering is, when the alert changed from orange to red couldn't someone locally have foreseen the disastrous consequences which finally ensued?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Benjamin"]The question which I've asked myself many times since the event and will, ultimately, need answering is, when the alert changed from orange to red couldn't someone locally have foreseen the disastrous consequences which finally ensued?



[/quote]

A good point, since the introduction of the Red Alert system of warning in the year 2002 there have been 6 Red Alerts. The declaration of a Red Alert is accordingly a rare event and only taken in exceptional circumstances. The recent Red Alert was originally declared for the departments of Charente Maritime and La Vendée but in the afternoon of the 27th FEBRUARY[:)] was extended to include the inland departments of Deux Sèvres and La Vienne, indicating that something exceptional was anticipated. The Red Alert was for a very restricted area so inhabitants of the four departments knew they were in for a rough night. I got off lightly with a slightly damaged satellite installation; however next door a large weeping willow came down causing damage to two properties.

[hotel-tolbiac]

it's a real shame ! people were allowed to build their house there in the first place and now they're going to lose everything ...

and  i read somewhere that of course the most expensive houses won't be destroyed ...