Clanger

[Joe]

I think a PM has droped himself in the xxxx .But I could be wrong.

[Gastines]

Just shows what type of character he really is. I 'm amazed that he can spout such out and out lies and exagerations every time he opens his mouth. After 13 years of control,along with Blair,surely any body can see the mess that virtually every public service and department is in?They can't even run a refuse service properly never mind a country.

[Théière]

And in the interest of balance, is what all the other parties spout always the truth? by virtually every public service you don't mean the NHS which has done quite well compared to where it was under the other lot. Do they run a refuse service? I believe they are all run by private enterprises for better or worse a legacy of a previous government too.

Now fold up your Daily mail and move on

Should the politicians watch what they off camera/mike no, it gives us a great insight into what they really think of us all.

[Gastines]

Add The Times,Express,Telegraph,Guardian and Ouest France plus several news channels. Glad you believe it's all improved over the last 13 years,personally I don't. I also believe a large percentage of the loss of public services is due to lack of funding from Central Government and then blamed on local Councils. Part of the reason for the Council Tax rises and Council budget cuts.Large amount spent on unwanted and outdated Quangoes and P.C imaging.

I also think that each persons conception of what effect Government policies and funding are having can largely depend on your area of work and home, particularly relating to general outgoings/roads/schools and hospital services.I would hazard a guess that virtually everyone is pleased with Browns treatment of their Pension Schemes and investments.No blame can be laid at his door as it is always Global but his departments favourite saying must be" Lessons will be learnt" Let's hope soon.

[Anton Redman II]

"I would hazard a guess that virtually everyone is pleased with Browns treatment of their Pension Schemes and investments.No blame can be laid at his door as it is always Global but his departments favourite saying must be" Lessons will be learnt" Let's hope soon "

I can only assume the above was ironic. Brown's changes to treatment of tax credits to pension schemes was the great big brass screw on the coffin of final salary pension schemes and with it company funding of pensions. No personal impact on me. I suspect the Tories dare not make too much of that because it would lead for calls to reverse the change.

[Quillan]

Its not so much his 'bigot' comment but it was the other stuff he said along the lines of 'who put me in front of this woman". Its clear that they don't want to be asked real questions by real people about how they are going to deal with the UK's problems.

I guess after the release of the report by the Institute of Fiscal Studies he has more important things on his mind like how to tell people where he is going to make the other 85% worth of cuts required to get rid of the current debt. People thought that what Thatcher did with her cuts was bad, well you ain't seen nothing yet. They pale in to insignificance compared to whats needed now. If you think the Eurozone has problems (Greece etc) all I can say is I would rather be in the Eurozone than out of it and in the UK at the moment and for the next 10 years as well. I watched 'Mandy' squirm on TV when they said about the UK being in the 'same place financially' as Greece and it was clear to me that he was in total denial and living on a different planet. I have to say that after watching 'Cable' twice now he seems to be the only person who has more of a grip on reality than the other 2 but even then he needs to find another 74% worth of cuts on top of what he has already suggested.

[Théière]

[quote user="Gastines"]Add The Times,Express,Telegraph,Guardian and Ouest France plus several news channels. Glad you believe it's all improved over the last 13 years,

Not all for sure, but The NHS has seen considerable turnaround.

 

 I also think that each persons conception of what effect Government policies and funding are having can largely depend on your area of work and home,

Very true.

particularly relating to general outgoings/roads/schools and hospital services. Again true, and why I am proud to say the NHS has changed although it is a very expensive service to run and not helped by some of the patients who love to waste the taxpayers money.  I would hazard a guess that virtually everyone is pleased with Browns treatment of their Pension Schemes (Criminal) and investments.No blame can be laid at his door as it is always Global but his departments favourite saying must be" Lessons will be learnt" Let's hope soon.[/quote]

The governments (all of them) employ experts in one field or another who seem to bias the results of their expertise in favour of who they work for and the experts are always wise after the event.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="Théière"]

Not all for sure, but The NHS has seen considerable turnaround.

 

  Again true, and why I am proud to say the NHS has changed although it is a very expensive service to run and not helped by some of the patients who love to waste the taxpayers money. 

[/quote]

Whilst I wouldn't particularly argue that there have been some improvements to the NHS I believe the question is at what cost. Brown and his ministers often like to quote that SERVICE X has had an increase in its budget of YY% but has that spend been value for money. Any idiot can throw money at a problem and probably (possibly) get some improvement but the real measurement of a government is to get the maximum improvements for the minimum spend.  Keep spending money we don't have is not the answer.

[Quillan]

And waste Derek, don't forget the waste. We have discussed the NHS many times and it appears from the different experiences people on the forum have had that it differs from one part of the country to another, just like France I guess. Some regional authorities are being cut where others are receiving extra funding and your experience depends where you live. What does annoy me is that those at the top of the tree have recently had good pay rises yet those that do the actual nursing had very little in the way of pay increase which I don't think is fair. My friends sister who is a director of one such trust is off on a 2 week 'jolly' to Sweden on a 'fact finding' tour, I wonder how much that is costing? Last year she spent 3 months in the US on another 'fact finding' tour. Considering they US health service is much lower in the WHO league table it seems strange to look at a health system which is even worse than your own. Still she had a nice time. [:@]

[Théière]

I agree with both of you, and it is expensive. My comments come from receiving treatment over the last month and that is ongoing. The pretty appalling state of the NHS a few years ago has improved and that has been down to the management and money it has received. I totally agree with the fact that the nurses still do not receive the money they should whilst bankers are supported for seriously screwing up.  The nurses on my ward worked 13 hour shifts and were brilliant. Some of the patients however were lazy, awkward and demanding! Personally a Hattie Jakes figure would be welcomed by me to get these people up and moving and not enjoying the benefits of being waited on hand and foot. That would save the health service a fortune.

Anyway this thread isn't just about the NHS so I'll shut up (for a while at least)

[Joe]

If for nothing else that man should NEVER be forgiven for robbing private pension funds mine included.How any of his voters who have a pension can swallow that is beyond me.

[Théière]

"if for nothing else"

what about selling the countries gold reserves at the lowest price too [6]

 

[Gastines]

I did think his reply yesterday regarding immigration numbers was quite good. There as as many UK residents leaving to live in Europe,or words to that effect. I wonder how many who have left the UK have had such a free ride as many of the UK arrivals? I would think it safe to say the majority of those leaving whether to Europe /Australia/Canada have not gone with a begging bowl but have gone for a decent quality of life and with resources in hand that they have earnt.I can't remember advisors paid by the French Government [Tax-payer] lining up to offer me free advice/house/benefits and translations and health service etc.I do believe that the UK has imported a large quantity of what the other countries of the world don't want,and plenty of these seem to have a completly different view of law.order and respect.

The photo gallery on Crimewatch seems to give a truer guide than the figures spouted from Government sources.

I just wish some interviewer would try and point out what a complete pack of lies keeps gushing out of the mouths of these political P.R. exercises.

[chessie]

That's total total b----y rubbish.

There are NOT as many people 'leaving the UK' as entering it.   There is a smaller number that leave;  those that do leave the UK tend to be sef-sufficient, or have their UK pensions state and/or private as well as hard-earned savings.

Those who ENTER the UK bring with them demands on our NHS, our schools, our hospitals, our transport services, our local councils - the whole lot - to which they HAVE NOT CONTRIBUTED.

And on top of which it is not JUST the 'initial' numbers' - it those that are 'in the chain' - the wife, husband, children, step-children, aunts, uncles, mothers, fathers, grand-fathers, grand-mothers, the whole d---n sheebang lot of them.

The ONLY reason that Immigration is now being 'discussed' (and I use that word with tongue in cheek because it really is NOT being discussed properly) - is simply because the black/brown second generation immigrant families are themselves being adversely affected by the sheer numbers of immigrants.

It is only the Blacks/Browns who are NOT racists (according the loopy left-wing Gaurdian social worker lot);  the racists are ONLY the non-blacks/browns.     But the minute the blacks/browns start talking about the adverse effects of large numbers of immigrants (and it doesn't matter WHO they are, WHERE they are from, or the COLOUR or their skin - its the sheer b---y NUMBERS, NUMBERS, NUMBERS - that is what the non-blacks have been complaining about).

But it is OK for the blacks/browns/any colour to complain about the number of immigrants - and suddenly the issue is considered as no longer 'beyond the pale'.

But if any NON-BLACK mentioned it - whoooeeee - 'racists, xenophobics, little englander' - ALL the sort of terms that cannot be applied to the non-Whites.

THAT is the only reason it is now possible to talk about immigration numbers.   The un-whites are saying, now, what the whites have been saying for the last 10 years - and suddenly it is acceptable.

Reverse, hypocritical discrimination in this somewhere isn't there ?

Roll on Winston Churchill, and all the other patriotic British Bulldogs...

Chessie

[Quillan]

Things have to be kept in perspective. There are just over 66M people living in the UK of which 11.6% of them are immigrants which equates to around 7.5M plus, as is claimed by Migration Watch another 1M illegal immigrants, that's a total of just over 8.5M.

Given that the number of unemployed in the UK is currently around the 2.5M (which coincidentally is the same number of Muslims living in the UK) it would seem that around 1/4 of the immigrants don't have jobs assuming all the unemployed are immigrants which they are not. According to the LSE the number of immigrants not in employment is around the 1M mark to which you can then add the other 1M illegal immigrants but then as they are illegal they can't use the services. So in actual fact the number of immigrants not paying in to the system is much lower than certain tabloids would have you believe and less than the 'indigenous white' unemployed population.

Having said that I do agree that immigrants should only be allowed in if they have a job to go to and if they pay nothing in they get nothing out, just like recent UK arrivals in France.

Sources are ONS and LSE.

[Gardengirl]

Interesting figures, Quillan. It must also be remembered that many places have few recent immigrants, whereas in some places people might feel more overwhelmed. If employment is hard to come by, and services are stretched, I can imagine bad feeling can soon grow.

[Quillan]

Actually those breakdown figures are available on the ONS website if you want to have a look. The other problem is that these groups normally go to areas where there are fellow countrymen because of language etc and also for work. I remember Southall back in the early 70's and the same comments about immigrants were made then as well yet they were bought over to work at Heathrow to do all the manual tasks like cleaning and baggage handling. In the Midlands now there is little or no work people see street after street of what they call immigrants when in fact they are 2nd and even 3rd generation Asians who were bought to the UK to work in the mills and the potteries because of the lack of manpower after the two great wars and are now in the same boat as the whites i.e. no job. I also guess that if you live in a very small English village of about 100 people then just 2 immigrants seems like an invasion.