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Dispute with architect


Magoo
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Any advice welcome................apologises for the length of the post.

We instructed an architect late 2003 to demolish a new extension attached to our old house that had been left open to the elements for 12 years - he sub-contracted a local guy to do the drawing and measuring up with the arrangement that all monies to be paid to the first contact.

The service was abysmal and we were continually chasing them. They changed our original instructions and came up with a swish new idea that, although sounded great, started to ring alarm bells with regard budget. This 'talking' stage took about a year!! We finally got a draft sketch early in 2005 and we had to pester them regularly for an outline quote - we finally got fed up and told them to go back to our original plan of demolition only - the main guy rang to try to persuade us otherwise saying the quotes are nearly ready blah blah - they came in at 600,000 euros................well we picked ourselves off the floor and wrote to them to tell them what we thought of their service and that we wished to terminate our business relationship, this was in Nov 2005. We had paid them 4,000 Euros up until then and considered the matter closed.

We received this week a bill from them totalling over 10,000 Euros - it turns out the guy that was actually doing the work has not been paid and has recently put in a bill for 4,500 Euros to the original contact.

Where do we stand in this matter - obviously, he is totally trying it on. When we had his original proposal his fees were 14% of the total works - he is now trying to charge us for 80 hours at a rate of 60 Euros an hour.

Regards

Mag

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I would say that a rate of 60€ per hour for a registered architect sounds very reasonable and I can quite see that they would clock up around 80 hours on this sort of work.  Whether or not you are obliged to pay this or not will depent entirely upon the wording of the contract you presumably signed with the architect.  One would expect there to be a clause in the contract dealing with just this sort of situation where the building contract does not go ahead.  It is most likely that their charge to you is legitimate and you will have to pay. Unless you can find something in the contract that you feel would be worth taking to a lawyer and fighting it out then your best bet is probably to grovel a bit and try to get them to accept a reduced settlement - maybe 7500€

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Hi , thanks for your reply.

We signed a 'letter of engagement' (which does not contain a clause stating fees if the works are not carried out) but there was no prices on it just a list of what they were going to do (plans, tenders,planning applications, final designs, works etc) and a paragraph stating their fees of 14% with a request of 2,000 euros deposit - we paid another 2,000 euros a year later for work carried out so far (existing conditions and sketch design). Obviously we terminated our working relationship at the sketch design and outline costing stage, we didn't get to planning application stage so as we were billed for the work to date we were surprised to receive said bill.  The architect who actually did the sketches put in a bill to the original contact for 4,500 euros for his services - the guy who didn't do the work and who we met just the once in 2003 has added 6,000 euros to the bill (he obviously doesn't know we contacted the local guy to question the latest bill) - this is the part we are disputing......also I misread the hours charged - 152 @ 60 euros.

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Having had lengthy (very lengthy) transactions with an excellent architect, my contribution is to say that your contract was with your architect and no-one else.  Which may be good news.  The crucial argument will probably be about the precise way in which you "terminated" the contract.  So step one is  to get all parties to agree when this event took place.  Since you paid on account, the exact wording of the bills you paid at that point (what it said they were for) then becomes critical.  It's not necessarily in the architect's interest if this was very vague.  Once you've got that pinned down, it looks like you have to arm yourself with an annotated diary and ask for an appointment to go over with him exactly what things are left over that he is charging you for.  Bit by bit, you'll have to hammer out when this or that cost was incurred (and hence whether you have already paid for it).  Your architect sounds over-worked and over-stretched, so if you are lucky, the more detailed your records the fewer real items will be left on the table.  If several appointments are necessary (and you keep very cool) it is to your advantage because, frankly, spending time settling this with you means not spending time earning fees.  I think if it's clear you are acting in good faith and will pay outstanding charges legitimately incurred, things will possibly ease off.  Best of luck.

 

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Check out www.architectes.org - there is a list of obligations on a registered architect and are a number of (free) complaint procedures you can persue which must happen before legal action (officially) and they can cancel invoices etc.

You can either threaten the architect with them if you think he is trying it on, or just complain and wait for the tribunal, it's up to you. The fact there was no formal contract and they changed the scope of the project without written approval will not sit well with them.

Your story sounds familiar, especially the subcontracting aspect, where we are (Aude 11) there is an English rogue who is notorious for this kind of thing, PM me if it sounds like the same chap.

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