Buyer 'stripping' a property

[P]

Someone we know has just bought a property in France.

Near the time of the Acte de Vente, they were taken into hospital and made alternate arrangements for signing and therefore did not inspect the property of signing.

They now find that the large wood burning stove, all the internal doors, all the electric sockets, switches and lights etc etc have been removed by the seller.

Does every item that is to be included with the sale need to be included in the compromis, is there a document that specifies what should be left, or is it the norm to strip a property.

In addition, if she had inspected on the day of the Acte, is there anything she could have done.

Interested for our own safety as much as anything else

Paul

[Wendy]

I'm not sure if anything can be done now but your case certainly can serve as an example to others - itemise everything when buying from the french!. I think we all know that the french either make off with the light fittings, etc...or...they leave every bit of rubbish they've ever owned as was in our case.  If we'd known what the seller was up to we would not have signed.  No way!.

[Liz]

A Compromis I have seen recently has a long list of items that must not be taken.  I do not know that this format is the same for all Notaires but I suspect it would be, so check the wording of the Compromis.  The items that are concerned are what we would know as fixtures and fittings and it even mentions door handles so I should think doors are expected to be in place!  I noticed that a wood burning stove is not listed but an insert is, so a wood burning stove would have to be agreed between the parties I think.   I would take the matter up with the Notaire, although, if they have signed the Acte, there may well be a clause in there to say that they were satisfied with what they got.

It was certainly not uncommon for properties to be stripped and, as I hadn't seen a Compromis for a number of years, I took it that matters had been tightened up to avoid this.

Liz

[P]

Thanks for your replies - and my little mistake - the subject should have been "SELLER"

Paul

[alnmike]

We were signing our acte at 2pm, and met with the agent and vendors at

11 in the house to agree. We found that the 'fitted' kitchen wasn't

quite as fitted as we thought, and a few units had gone. But he had

'made good' although I don't think the wallpaper was from roll as the

original!! :) Seriously, it was advised by our English speaking French

solicitor, and for the sake of hanging around for a few hours in the

morning it was well worth it. We also all went around and read the

meters together, so again - no surprise!

[Evianers]

We purchased a deceased estate - that in itself is a mammoth story - but were intrigued to see gaps in the kitchen where a dishwasher had been removed, plus another cupboard, plus the antenna attached to the house outside. Now, as the poor lady was deceased, who took the bits and pieces - things that go bump in the night!

[painterman]

We are in the process of trying to buy a house in France, its been an epic nine months wait so far basically because the estate agent (we have just discovered) has been saying that he has sorted certain matters out when in fact he has not, and what very little he has done for his 10,000.00 euros fees has been done incorrectly, so we have to start with the paperwork again.... However, a word of warning, our estate agent would not let us make out an itinery  of what was there at the property to be included when we watched him write out the compromis de vente. He told us that there was no need and that everything that was there would be included in the acte de vente. The person we are buying the house from has now removed (dug away and removed from the property) a few hundred tonnes of soil. The landscape of the property is now therefore changed, and we can not do anything about it- right down to the bedrock! It is about nearly half an acre of soil's worth. There is nothing we can do, it's gone, except try and find someone we can buy some top soil from now. They have also removed all the cow muck from the barn which we could have tried to use as compost to begin 'making' some top soil from again from scratch.

So this is as we believe all the wrong doing of the estate agent not communicating what we had said we required for the land to be left as it was, as for internal fittings- there are none except two doors (at least last time we looked).  If you are thinking of buying in France, do not trust your 'friendly' estate agent person, and make sure that in the compromis de vente you insist that you include an itinery, maybe write down what is there at your 'hoped for property' on a pad of paper as you view the property and take photos, that way you will have the items that you believe you are paying for at the end.

For us it is too late, we feel well and truly 'ripped off' especially since we were told the itinery bit was to be done later, so it wasn't as if we hadn't asked about it. Our estate agent was (is) we believe dishonest- buyers beware. Unless we want to make a few enemies with our commune, which we don't, we now have to put up with the situation, but still can't believe that someone would take away the soil (7ft deep x 30ft x 140ft of soil), and it was alot of soil!!!!

 

[Brilec]

[quote user="wen"]I think we all know that the french either make off with the light fittings, etc...or...they leave every bit of rubbish they've ever owned as was in our case. [/quote]

Not in every case, our vendors cleaned the house (they were selling on behalf of an uncle) and mowed the lawn just before the signing of the Acte. The only thing which was removed was a large ugly light fiting in the lounge which we would not have kept anyway, and they did fit a temporary alternative anyway.

[painterman]

We thought that by asking about having an itinery as you would expect one in the UK, was a good idea, but to be told by the immobiliere that this is written in the acte de vente, not the compromis de vente (and yes I am very sure that I understood the terms correctly and I checked my understanding of them at the time with the estate agent) and he assured us that this was how things were done in France ( this was last summer). We do feel well and truly had. We are considering reporting this estate agent, but we shall wait until we are in France to find out who to report him to for his dishonesty so far. The sellers told us very recently that they had hoped that because an English couple were buying the house that everything would be finalised within three months, and we had expected this too. The delays and misinformation are all due to the estate agent, and we have been constantly pushing for answers since the 'deadline date for completion' passed only to be told by the estate agent that the delays were due to the french system. We didn't know last summer that most french house sellers strip their properties, but asking for an itinery should have covered us, and an honest estate agent would have allowed us to itemise objects, even the soil as part of the land. We still can't believe it that the sellers took it, maybe selling soil is 'good money' over there for someone, but we do want to get along with them as they are local and wonder if the seller was trying to recoup some costs due to the delays? When we finally met the sellers, and we went looking for them, and found them, apparently the estate agent had been telling the sellers that the delays were our fault. We showed the sellers all our correspondence, a very large set of A4 ring binders full of copy letters sent by registered post with the postal receipts. The sellers were not happy with the estate agent. We believe that the estate agent may well have been trying a little scam..... delay things for long enough, either the seller or the buyer pulls out of the agreement, and hey presto, the estate agent has a nice 10,000 euros bonus for doing virtually nothing for nearly a year.   We will only deal with the notaire now, not the estate agent. So if anyone does take time to read through all of this, when you are searching for your hoped for home abroad, buy the property through a notaire, or if through an estate agent, insist that you choose your own notaire and find him/her through the local mairie's office, always send things by registered post to be signed for upon receipt, write your own itinery of what items (or ground/ grassed area)  you want to be left there and in what condition and ensure that before you sign anything for anyone that the seller is willing to leave those items there for you (negotiate a price if necessary), and make sure that those items are listed as part of the conditions of purchase(only if the purchase of the property goes through to completion though, as there is a subtle difference, and vagueness and trusting of people seems to be the largest problem) in any contract that you sign. In short keep your money safe and firmly in your 'pocket' until you have checked everything out, and ensure that you actually meet the sellers before you sign anything, as our estate agent didn't want us to meet the seller until the supposed day of the signing of the acte de vente, and this date has still yet to be agreed! It is a shame that trusting people to keep their word is a problem in today's world. Everyone seems so grasping, but if you want to keep your money safe, keep things formal (as we have done with formal correspondence, not over bottles of wine), keep a written record of everything and every phone call conversation, and don't allow an estate agent to keep 'fobbing' you off- go direct to the seller and your notaire, at least this way we have finally been able to make a little headway. Good luck to all in the searching and purchasing process right now.