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List night at the Proms?


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Like many (most?) of you, I just watched the Last Night at the Proms. Frank had long gone to bed and I settled down with both dogs at my feet (their eyes and minds on my packet of crisps) and the tail-end of a bottle of Courvoisier, my favourite but carefully rationed, tipple. As with every year (aided undoubtedly by the cognac) I found the whole thing really uplifiting. As I reluctantly head back to the UK in less than 3 weeks and with everyone I know telling me how much I am going to find it changed for the worse, and just how un-British Britain has become I was just wiped out by the patriotism there on display both in the Hall and in the parks. There just seemed to be thousands upon thousands of people all over UK celebrating being British (and enjoying the music of course).

Having, as an RAF wife, travelled and lived all over the world, I have still always been proud of being British - felt, to be truthful [:$]that we were in some way superior to the rest [6]– but I suppose that that is what patriotism is all about and anyway, it is the way I was brought up to feel.. Lately, I have had the impression from what I see on UK television that there is something un-British about patriotism, and yet, I still hold the picture of the little boy of about 12 years or so,at the Proms, singing the National Anthem, with his hand on his heart.[:D]


I so wonder what I am going to return to, and yet, from Franks point of view, with Alzheimer's, at least they speak English.

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[quote user="Megan le Fey"] 

I still hold the picture of the little boy of about 12 years or so,at the Proms, singing the National Anthem, with his hand on his heart.

[/quote]

I saw this too and thought "Yuck - too much American tv". BTW surely his hand was on his shirt?

Sadly though England is no longer populated by the white middle classes, perhaps this whole prog was filmed 50 years ago ?

John 

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I always find the Last Night of the Proms a rather trite celebration that has been hijacked by the Tim-Nice-But-Dim set, just as the concept of British patriotism has been usurped by the political right. LNOTP is based, to my mind, on a rather false nostalgia rather than genuine pride. There are plenty of things to be proud of though if you are British, and more specifically English. Unfortunately there are always those who are much happier complaining about their native country than they are rejoicing about it, and they are often the same people who just cannot understand that if you enjoy France, and maybe even live in France, you can still retain your love for Britain.

This chap - who is a long way from being a middle-class right-winger, but is still proud of his nationality - has it right in my opinion; here's another (earlier) piece also giving his take on the same subject.

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We missed it this year, but I usually find the special tunes of the last night very emotional. But the words especially of LOHAG are too reminiscent of Empire days to appeal.

The sea shanty ones are better, and more like the things I'm proud of in England. I do miss the sea here in the middle of France.

I agree with you about Billy Bragg, Will.

ps - Anne - hope your move back goes well - Pat.

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Earlier in the evening watched the rebroadcast of the Tenerife Christo Redentor Concert which I had missed earlier in the week but the sound quality on the BBC is so naff; the lack of lip synchro is hilarious.

In the fulness of time tuned in to the rediffusion on SFR which started at 11:35 CET; the german host gave a thoughtful explanation of the idiosyncrasies inherent therein; but best of all german audio quality and DTS seem to be a blessed synergy.

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[quote user="pachapapa"]

Earlier in the evening watched the rebroadcast of the Tenerife Christo Redentor Concert which I had missed earlier in the week but the sound quality on the BBC is so naff; the lack of lip synchro is hilarious.

In the fulness of time tuned in to the rediffusion on SFR which started at 11:35 CET; the german host gave a thoughtful explanation of the idiosyncrasies inherent therein; but best of all german audio quality and DTS seem to be a blessed synergy.

[/quote]

I would respectfully suggest that the quality of the BBC sound is the fault of your equipment, and that the lip sync problem maybe more to do with your satellite link than the BBC.

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We have found LNOTP to be increasingly disapponting in recent years, with the cretinous hooters etc, just going a bit too much over the top.  Having said that, the music usually won through.

Last night however was dire.  Some idiot decided that it would be a good idea to drop the 'Sea Songs' (with the exception of RB) & it killed the whole thing for us. (They've gradually been leaving out bits in recent years, to culminate in yesterday's farce). Couple that with a generally drab Last Night programme and it was a waste of time.  I've expressed the views of 'Grumpy of the Gard' to the Beeb: no reply expected.[:)]

Personally, I applaud the widening of the concert offerings, not all of which are to everyone's taste, but that's surely what the Proms are about. However, why muck about with the last 30 mins of an umpteen week programme, in order to satisfy some idea that you've got to change everything?

Two highlights for us this year: the National Youth Orchestra concert & the Rogers & Hammerstein concert (perhaps just shaded by last year's MGM one).    

 

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We had French friends to dinner and subjected them to The Last Night,  so I wasn't watching in huge detail,   but I also wonder if pachapapa has a problem with his equipment.

It is true that the regional contributions (ie from the Parks) are prone to sync problems (and this year was no exception);   this is due to the latency of the contribution (and indeed backhaul) digital links.    Personally I think we'd be better off to stay in the RAH,  but someone else on this thread thinks otherwise which I entirely respect.    This sync problem seems to be accepted by the BBC as a price worth paying for the regional connection so is nothing new or significant.

But if pachapapa was suffering sync problems from the actual RAH itself I think a quick depower of his equipment might have been in order;   I've read quite a lot of technical comment on the Last Night and sync problems were only mentioned on the regional contributions.

As a lapsed organist the highlight for me was the fact that the sound balancer might have been another organ nut as the balance favoured this magnificent beast this year rather more prominently than usual.   Superb to hear the Pedal dept powering through the mix.

Did anyone try the BBC high quality on line feed (now sadly suspended)?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2010/audioexperiment/

As to the patriotic element,   I think the BBC get it just right.   Our French friends are somewhat left of centre,   so I took care to explain that a lot of the atmosphere at the Last Night is a sort of "end of term" celebration of the two months' worth of concerts,  but I needn't have worried,   they found the whole thing quite tasteful and in many ways almost understated.

Someone mentions the idiotic hooters.     I miss the sheer numbers of eccentric people that used to populate the Prommers back in the 70's and 80's.    Where were all the rival conductors who used to line the front row of the Prommers?   Where were the silly costumes?   Where were all the silly (but musically well timed) noises?

What worries me is that the ratio of young to old seems to be tipping each year subtly towards the old;   and most of the actual Prommers looked a bit too well dressed and well-heeled!!!!

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[quote user="NickP"][quote user="pachapapa"]

Earlier in the evening watched the rebroadcast of the Tenerife Christo Redentor Concert which I had missed earlier in the week but the sound quality on the BBC is so naff; the lack of lip synchro is hilarious.

In the fulness of time tuned in to the rediffusion on SFR which started at 11:35 CET; the german host gave a thoughtful explanation of the idiosyncrasies inherent therein; but best of all german audio quality and DTS seem to be a blessed synergy.

[/quote]

I would respectfully suggest that the quality of the BBC sound is the fault of your equipment, and that the lip sync problem maybe more to do with your satellite link than the BBC.

[/quote]

Ahh Yes! Another one of those dastardly plots by Nokia and those perverse creatures in Luxembourg manning the sat uplink to FA PPP.[:)]

P.S. I would observe vis-à-vis la BBC that for reasons of pride, not national, my only reception of the BBC is limited to the BBC World Service on either HotBird or Astra 1; I know not which but the DiSEqC seems to know which.  The lack of synchronicity on that service is self evident, try it and convince yourself that the Beeb are upper middle class tree hugging OxBridge pr*ts.[:D]

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That might be the answer PPP.

The Astra 2 BBC feeds are uplinked from south east England,   AFAIK by a company engaged by the BBC for that purpose (and others).

It could well be that something happened to "your" version on the way to Luxembourg.

It's up to you of course,  but having spent eighteen months working at Bush House in the early 1980's I find the current incarnation of the World Service to be very very flakey indeed;  it sounds tired,  somewhat amateurish and to my ears lacks authority.

But I know it still has its afficionados,   so it's good you still enjoy it!

As a matter of interest,   was your feed even in stereo?   I rather assumed (but haven't checked) that WS o/p was still pretty much in mono....?

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[quote user="Gardian"]

 

  Some idiot decided that it would be a good idea to drop the 'Sea Songs' (with the exception of RB) & it killed the whole thing for us. Personally, I applaud the widening of the concert offerings, not all of which are to everyone's taste, but that's surely what the Proms are about. However, why muck about with the last 30 mins of an umpteen week programme, in order to satisfy some idea that you've got to change everything?

Two highlights for us this year: the National Youth Orchestra concert & the Rogers & Hammerstein concert (perhaps just shaded by last year's MGM one).    

[/quote]

But the Sea Songs Fantasia was not dropped. It was done on Thursday - in a reconstruction of a Wood Last Night. What we have had for the last 60 years has been the Sargent Last Night. Personally, I think that Sea Songs is a cut and paste job which most people would think dire if they had not been force fed with it for over half a century. But now, it has become a "tradition" - did not Mahler say something like "tradition is the enemy of progress", or was it John Stuart Mill? Renee Fleming's voice was wonderful (which is more than could be said of her dress) and I liked the inclusion of "You'll never walk alone" on 9/11 (pity about trying to link the outside events).

My highlights were the Rodgers & Hammerstein evening, two Mahler symphonies conducted by Gergiev and concerts by the CBSO and RLPO which showed that all the best bands are not in London.

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[quote user="Clarkkent"]

But the Sea Songs Fantasia was not dropped. It was done on Thursday - in a reconstruction of a Wood Last Night. What we have had for the last 60 years has been the Sargent Last Night. Personally, I think that Sea Songs is a cut and paste job which most people would think dire if they had not been force fed with it for over half a century. But now, it has become a "tradition" - did not Mahler say something like "tradition is the enemy of progress", [/quote]

Didn't realise that & I take your point re 'tradition'.

Thanks for putting me right.

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The soprano was magnificent to look at but we felt that her diction was at best mediocre.

We struggled to hear any words at all,  even when she was singing in English (or American!).

I've mentioned this elsewhere and whilst few people seemed to notice it at the time there has some been agreement with my view.

Although our audio set up here in France is not ideal for making definitive comments about quality.

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[quote user="Martin963"]The soprano was magnificent to look at but we felt that her diction was at best mediocre.

We struggled to hear any words at all,  even when she was singing in English (or American!).

I've mentioned this elsewhere and whilst few people seemed to notice it at the time there has some been agreement with my view.

Although our audio set up here in France is not ideal for making definitive comments about quality.
[/quote]

As no doubt you know Martin, most people spend hundreds of Pounds /Euros on a big flat screen Tele that usually has Incorporated into it a two bob speaker. I wonder when the powers to be will consider the inherent sound problems with television receivers, and before anybody says it, I don't want a "cinema surround sound system", to me it always sounds false. I just want a television for normal watching with a good speaker system, is that too much to ask? I am no expert but I always liked the BBC television presentation of concerts that you could watch on your tele, while listening on the radio to the sound playback, do they still do that?

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I don't think they do what used to be known as "simulcasts" at all now.   As you say,  for example R3 and BBC 2 would often link up for opera etc.

One reason is that it's now so hard to sync FM radio,  DAB,  Dsat radio and DTT radio with their digital TV cousins.   Even home equipment responds at different rates to incoming digital signals.

The other is that TV sound is now as high quality in its transmission system as radio  (think NICAM and now MPEG).   

But you are right,   most TV's loudspeaker systems are built to a price and to a limited space,  and sound accordingly

We run our DSat boxes through external hi fis which is probably the best compromise,   ordinary stereo but handled by better amplification and loudspeakers.

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Whilst the chance of 5.1 on the Beeb is remote, the stereo audio can be fed into the amplifier of  one's 5.1 kit. Switch from AC3 to Stereo mode and one gets pretty reasonable sound out of the system. Stereo back and front, combined on the central speaker and the bass booster. A similar arrangement can be adopted for playing CD Audios on a Blu-Ray Player.

It seems such a pity and wasted investment to just use the the kit for DVD 5.1 Audio; although I must admit I do like the Phil Collins Bercy "drumming" in 5.1.[:)]

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As a Neanderthal who rarely watches TV, but is a fanatical listener (lastener ? J with a brilliant crystal set, I found this broadcast a little disappointing compared to the TV versions I had seen or heard before.  The “announcers” were quite toe-crunching to listen to, they had the hallmark of newbies and tried, I mean, like, ever so hard to be, like, with it. Took a lot away from the enjoyment for me.  Spent ages describing  The Dress.

 

Also, I felt a fair bit of editing took the usual sense of occasion away.

 

The American lady has a wonderful voice and I enjoyed her very much.

 

Anyone else feel the same, or similarly ?

 

You can’t retain the same high standard each and every year I guess.

 

Ernie

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