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How was the grève for you?


lily
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How was the greve for us?

My husband couldn't cross the River Gironde by ferry and had to do a 4 hour detour around Bordeaux.

My daughter couldn't catch her train to school. She had to leave the house at 5.30am to get a coach instead.

I couldn't post an important parcel.

My son missed half of his lessons.

Mmmm - sympathy for the strikers?  Hard to find in my household.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]

The fault lies with educators and politicians failure to create jobs or the opportunities for new jobs for young people.

[/quote]

But I thought that one of the problems with the French economy is that the politicians have created so many jobs - hardly any of which contribute much just spend the taxes drained from those with proper jobs.

John

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Until I saw yesterday's La Depeche I was not really aware that there had been a day of inaction. And of course the heaps of placards etc on one of the roundabouts in Figeac.

Do you think that M Thatcher is too ga-ga to be shoe-horned into Sarky's govt ?

John

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[quote user="NormanH"]Sorry, but I thought that the whole point of a strike was to be disruptive.
I suppose you would prefer it to be in toffee-apple factories, so it didn't upset 'everyone in life.' who has a holiday home in France  and enough money to waste on needless 'allez -retours'  with low cost airlines.
These people are battling for  real survival after 60, not your privileged way of life.
[/quote]

yes I agree, Ignore Norman, although he does seem to have a huge chip on his shoulder.  I’m afraid his pathetic comments seem to come from a man who has nothing better to do than criticise his fellow ex pats.  What is your problem, do you object to those of us who use cheap flights for our families to come and see us?  How do you return to Britain, if you ever do, maybe you have no friends left over there. Or maybe you have you own private aircraft!!  Anyone who knows Norman should let us know.  I started the thread as I was interested in finding out how everyone managed with the strikes, not to start a pointless attack on my fellow brits!!  

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Yes, that is exactly what is happening, if an old person stays in a job then a young person cannot have it.

Ofcourse many companies like to pay off the oldies and employ young people as they are cheaper.

Just how do the much maligned young get a start, a chance in life? There are not an infinite number of jobs to go round. And in France, employment for the young has been a big big problem in all the years I was there. I hate to think what it is like at the moment. I also know how most companies treat people who they consider 'old' ie over 40, when they are on the job market. The trick was always to get a job by the time you were 30 and stick to it for grim death until la retraite.

I probably have an even more jaundiced view of the 'moving to France' milarky than NormanH does. Don' t ignore NormanH, he is a wealth of knowledge about daily life. Maybe not life in Nullepartville-en-Pleincampagne, but like us, when we were there, will live life much as his neighbours do and you can't beat that as far as I am concerned.
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[quote user="Iceni"]

Until I saw yesterday's La Depeche I was not really aware that there had been a day of inaction. And of course the heaps of placards etc on one of the roundabouts in Figeac.

Do you think that M Thatcher is too ga-ga to be shoe-horned into Sarky's govt ?

John

[/quote]

Yes, Maggie was vilified for many of her decisions but she has become a talking point at the moment in the current situation with the strikes.  Many agree that she certainly got rid of the strike mentality in England.  It makes for a good conversation piece around the table.  Have you spoken to your French friends about her, many seem to have a soft spot for her!

 

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In the UK there are many laws against discrimination with reference to work. Companies over a certain size must employ handicapped people, no a popular idea from a practical point of view with employers. The other laws are to do with sex, religion, race and age which I think are quite fair. I don't know if France has the same sort of laws and if they do how hard a line they take. I would hope that employers take the best person for the job regardless.

I am wondering what you do with all these 'old' people, do you put them on the social, I mean you are depriving them of much of their pension because many won't get the full amount until 67, or in some cases even older. My personal feeling, regardless of if I want to or not, is that people should be allowed to work for as long as they wish.

Well it has finally got to me today, the strike that is. Mrs Q is on her way back from visiting her brothers in Spain. The TGV will not pass in to France. The will be dropped somewhere in the back and beyond of Spain then taken by bus to another place where I can pick her up, around a 5 hour trip for me. I shall take my trusty pick axe handle with me just in case I see a striking train worker and give him a 'slap' on the way through, inconsiderate w*nkers.

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[quote user="idun"]And in France, employment for the young has been a big big problem in all the years I was there. I hate to think what it is like at the moment. [/quote]

A story in Le Parisien, my daily must read paper, quoted the official stats for 15-24 age group unemployment in Ile-de-France as 54%. And that's taking out the kids in education, training, etc. The number IN a job must be adsolutely tiny.

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The problem exists at both ends of the age spectrum as French companies get rid of older workers as fast as they can, though recent legislation might put a stop to this. But by getting rid of them, they put a bigger burden on the social security system, of course, and increase the debt.

One suspects that many of the youth are not being prepared for work or are not fit for work as they are brainwashed into believing there are no jobs, that they have to stay local for the bl**dy families and that work is not such a good idea after all.

Gosh, sounds like another country!

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[quote user="velcorin"]

[quote user="idun"]And in France, employment for the young has been a big big problem in all the years I was there. I hate to think what it is like at the moment. [/quote]

A story in Le Parisien, my daily must read paper, quoted the official stats for 15-24 age group unemployment in Ile-de-France as 54%. And that's taking out the kids in education, training, etc. The number IN a job must be adsolutely tiny.

[/quote]Hence my comment much earlier in this thread.  I realise that there are arguments against this but it must seem very difficult to come to terms with the idea that one must retire even later when one's grandchildren are without work.  Hardly a surprise that much of the support for the strikes comes from the young.  There are forum members who have gone back to the UK for the sake of their children's futures, amongst other things.  My own BiL, who is an academic over here, is now the only member of his family living here full time as his wife has gone back to Britain for both employment and so she can be with their three kids who have all gone back for better higher education employment prospects. 

The age at which people retire must surely have some effect on the job market - even if not a direct one?  There is not a finite number of jobs, especially in a global economy, is there?  I'm still not at all clear how keeping people in work in later life can improve the job market for the young but I'd be glad if somebody could explain this to me.

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Several French friends where we live have sons and daughters who have gone to work in UK. Most are in the SE, a number working in restaurants. Some have mentioned how good they think it is that not only can they find work, but they can move on if they so wish. Two that I know of are in big name restaurants, which they are very proud of. None of them have any thoughts of their youngsters coming back any time soon.

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Yes I know what you mean.  We have French friends who have three lovely daughters.  One has moved to America to a teaching post and the other two are in England.  They say although they are well qualified they would never get the same opportunities if they had stayed in France.  It's more a case of not having the same opportunities here, not that older people are working longer, if that was the case there would be no work in Britain for young people as our retirement age is much higher.

It's nice to hear all the thoughts from this thread.

 

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Well I am pleased to see that the government and to a great degree the public are totally ignoring the strikers, the SNCF syndicalist leader said that they would not carry on their reconductible strikes if they were the only one, there is still fuel around despite pretty much all the refineries being blockaded.

The unions are running out of steam and support from their own members, the public are gradually becoming disenchanted with them not with the government for ignoring them, I think the actions of the Lycéens are just making the whole show look all the more ridiculous.

I do however have some inside information of the trump card that the government will pay when the unions finally run out of steam and realise that everyone s ignoring them. The government will announce a complete "U" turn on pension reform, the retirement age will remain unchanged, the only thing asked for in return is that from now on employees will have to work their lunch hours [:-))]

It is expected that after patient explanation of what this alien concept is,  the country will be more than happy to work till 70 years old [:D]

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How wonderful, Margaret Thatcher got the strikers and did what exactly? If the strikers wanted a better life, which was naieve and hopeful perhaps, but she, she was treacherous with the UK, just who was she working for? These days I do wonder! Or maybe, she was just plain old malevolent and took pleasure in her grand plan.

She sold off anything of value and now so many things are foreign owned and these companies give british jobs away to the third world.

She nurtured an avaricous society, that we, as observers from afar saw as hideous and disgusting. No wonder everything ended up imploding. But hey, who amoungst our friends and family will ever admit to buying into it all and being rapacious. And it chagrins me enormously to 'know' that they did.

And where does the coal come from now, Those british strikers were bad, so best not to let them work in decent conditions, well better, a mine is still a mine, and get half decent pay and import cheaply from people including kids, working in conditions that probably existed 100 odd years ago in the UK, now how good is that.

Strikes are the sign of a society that has evolved enough for people to have some say, or try to have some say in what happens to them. I may get inconvenienced sometimes, but let them have this very simple right. The alternative is appalling.

I
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[quote user="idun"]How wonderful, Margaret Thatcher got the strikers and did what exactly? If the strikers wanted a better life, which was naieve and hopeful perhaps, but she, she was treacherous with the UK, just who was she working for? These days I do wonder! Or maybe, she was just plain old malevolent and took pleasure in her grand plan.

She sold off anything of value and now so many things are foreign owned and these companies give british jobs away to the third world.

She nurtured an avaricous society, that we, as observers from afar saw as hideous and disgusting. No wonder everything ended up imploding. But hey, who amoungst our friends and family will ever admit to buying into it all and being rapacious. And it chagrins me enormously to 'know' that they did.

And where does the coal come from now, Those british strikers were bad, so best not to let them work in decent conditions, well better, a mine is still a mine, and get half decent pay and import cheaply from people including kids, working in conditions that probably existed 100 odd years ago in the UK, now how good is that.

Strikes are the sign of a society that has evolved enough for people to have some say, or try to have some say in what happens to them. I may get inconvenienced sometimes, but let them have this very simple right. The alternative is appalling.

I[/quote]

But of course lily's father in law would have been less inconvenienced if there hadn't been any strikes, and she as someone who already has her pension doesn't give a fig. She is alright Jack. Work till you drop the rest to pay her pension! And certainly dont do anything which might disturb her way of life.

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At least she didn't sell off the gold at a knock down price when nobody was looking. If she sold of the family silver then Labour were left rummaging through the loft for anything else left to sell off. She didn't rob the pension funds either like Brown who in this area made Robert Maxwell look like an amateur.

As for the coal miners perhaps a read of the history section of the NUM website might be of interest to some. Even they admit it was an illegal action and only helped to speed up pit closures. They didn't have a say, they didn't even have a vote, they were dragged out on strike by 'that man' for his own political ends. He walked away to form the Socialist Labour Party which of course he is the leader of (his ego would not allow him to be anything else). He was finally thrown out of the NUM this year (August to be precise). He picked on Thatcher, just like he did Heath, because he didn't like their policies, it had nothing really to do with the miners and pit closures, they were just his political tool that he used to fight the Tories with.

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Don't get me started about Arthur Scargill, what a terrible terrible man. Husband did his apprenticeship down the pit, he's from a mining family, as am I on my mother's side, her family worked in the Nottingham pits. So we know all about the strike and both sides of it, from the miners point of view ofcourse. I am strictly uninterested, even historically about Thatchers wicked wicked motives. And don't get me started about Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, I believe Blair to be a sort of weird incarnation of Maggie's evil spirit.

GB didn't even sell the gold when no one was looking, he did it quite openly, and the pension thing too. The strange thing was that getting rid of Thatcher and the tory's to replace them by Blair was to me like getting rid of Attilla and replacing with Ghengis. As I was not there, I still can't get my head round the mentality that overtook the country. Maybe people should have been heading for the barracades and cooking up a stink, but I know of several that were too enchanted by seeing their house value going up and up that they could see little more than that or the possible consequences of such folly.

There again, I have no idea as to why or how France has been saddled with the poisoned President they now have. He is going to just about bankrupt us personally by unjust rules.

Just as I had pressed 'post' husband came in and handed me a book he had bought for me tonight.

SHAFTED: The Media, the Miners' Strike and the Aftermath.

I must say husband's sense of timing made me laugh out loud.

Looks like it is grim reading though.
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Idun.

First of all I agree with nearly all that you say and understand where you are coming from, I like most of my young peers did buy into the Thatcher dream and the whole avarice loadsamoney deal. 

Several years on I was equally sold on the Blair government after all the corruption, I thought how great it was to see what I thought was a  normal family standing on the steps of no 10 and a cabinet being composed of normal people and a high proportion of women, I even voted for them again before I realised the con, perhaps I was indeed mesmerised by the rising price of my house [:(]

Your comment: [quote user="idun"] I am strictly uninterested, even historically about Thatchers wicked wicked motives. [/quote]

Is however at odds with your previous posting : Margaret Thatcher got the strikers and did what exactly? If the strikers wanted a better life, which was naieve and hopeful perhaps, but she, she was treacherous with the UK, just who was she working for? These days I do wonder! 

Perhaps I am taking it out of context, in any case I know where you are coming from, my father was sent to work down the mine from the age of 14 and walked down to the South supported by the Salvation Army to find work during the depression. He became a carpenter.

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[quote user="idun"]GB didn't even sell the gold when no one was looking, he did it quite openly, and the pension thing too. [/quote]

Those arch monatory morons, the Swiss, Germans and Swedes, also sold all their gold within the space of a couple of months of the UK. Perceived wisdom at the time was that a stack of pretty coloured bricks sat in a vault doing nothing was poor economic practice. With a Bsc(Hons) in Hindsight you could make an arguement that it was wrong. But, anyone want to tell the Germans, Swiss, Swedes they were idiots? Did the DM or DT mention this?

I've never understood the arguement that a pension fund, run for profit, should not pay tax on dividend received, everyone else does. They are not charities.

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I only wonder who she was really working for and not her motives for doing as she did. Sorry I wasn't clear.

I am not interested in 'money', never have been really. We spend what we get, more or less and our priority is simple, to have enough to eat and heat and live in comfort, luxory isn't my thing. I think that it would have driven me mad if I had been 'into money' and been the observer I was, during those times.

Still 'if' we had been 'there' would we too have been bitten? in honesty, how could I say! I just hope I wouldn't have been.

And the worst thing she did was 'exile' us for about 10 years. With mortgage rates as they were in the 80's and the bizarre mortgage we had in France on a half finished house, if we had left we would have left with big debts and the house we had left in the UK was suddenly worth more than our french house, so there was no way we could have afforded that. No going back for us then. Rum old times really.

And M Thatcher did one good and brilliant thing, and that was introduce access courses for uni. My neighbour did hers last academic year, working 60-70 hours a week to get all her sciences up to scratch and beyond, so passed everything with flying colours and now has a place in uni doing a Bsc, studying four disciplines. I've been supporting and I suppose mentoring her and am really proud of her.
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