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Roma: EU to take legal action against France


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[quote user="NickP"][quote user="5-element"]

As PPP says, many maires  and communes prefer to pay the fines rather than provide camping ground space for travellers.

As some say in this Le Monde article: "La loi, je m'en fous!"

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2010/07/30/aires-d-accueil-des-gens-du-voyage-pourquoi-la-loi-n-est-pas-respectee_1393727_3224.html

[/quote]

 

It's panto time! Oh no he didn't, he said  "which contrary to french legislation have never been implemented;"

[/quote]

Sorry you are losing me.... are we back on the ambiguous, implied negative, until thread again?

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To clarify 

We are, of course, talking about the first loi Besson (31st May 1990)

and the second loi Besson (5 July 2000); what follows is a paper from the Senate, nobody seems to have told them that the law had not been passed!

En France, la loi n° 90-449 du 31 mai 1990 visant à la mise en oeuvre du droit au logement, dite loi Besson, imposait aux départements d'établir des schémas départementaux prévoyant « les conditions d'accueil spécifiques des gens du voyage » et obligeait les communes de plus de 5 000 habitants à réserver aux gens du voyage des terrains aménagés. En l'absence de contraintes imposées aux collectivités réticentes, dix ans après la mise en vigueur de cette disposition, à peine un quart des communes concernées s'étaient acquittées de leurs obligations envers les gens du voyage.

La loi n° 2000-614 du 5 juillet 2000 relative à l'accueil et à l'habitat des gens du voyage, dite seconde loi Besson et actuellement intégrée au code de l'urbanisme, a donc abrogé les dispositions de la première loi Besson relatives aux gens du voyage et renforcé les obligations des communes à l'égard de cette communauté.

Anyone so inclined could read the whole text here:

http://www.cultures-tsiganes.org/cultures_tsiganes/voyage/voyage_p2_loi.htm

 

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="NickP"]Papachapa wrote:

An economic alternative to assuage the thousands of camping sites for "gens du voyage" which contrary to french legislation have never been implemented; the french communes prefering to pay fines instead. Much the same procedure to the NON construction of social housing in the land of liberté, egalité et fraternité.

Not true, there is a purpose built site for Travellers/Gypsies in Montoire Sur Loir, and may I say kept in immaculate condition by the users and the council, also the  Centre region has quite a good stock of social housing.

[/quote]

I try normally to avoid pointless tit for tat but your apparent suggestion that ONE well run site in the department of Loir et Cher implies by some curious process of proof by induction to the effect that ALL departments in france are in compliance with the Departmental Schèma required by the Loi Besson 2 really rather amusing.

Perhaps you might request the moderators to move it to the joke of the week section. At least I find it hilarious.[:D]

[/quote]

 

Not at all, I'm only saying that contrary to your erroneous  opinion that the French government was never in compliance, I am merely inferring  that I am proud that my local council are following the law and are spending my taxes in a correct manner, what's the problem with that? If your Region/Department whatever is not doing it's duty, please don't make assumptions about elsewhere. And while we are on the subject of the joke section, you could fill that up in about two days with your twaddle so don't lets go down that road my old son.

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="NickP"][quote user="5-element"]

As PPP says, many maires  and communes prefer to pay the fines rather than provide camping ground space for travellers.

As some say in this Le Monde article: "La loi, je m'en fous!"

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2010/07/30/aires-d-accueil-des-gens-du-voyage-pourquoi-la-loi-n-est-pas-respectee_1393727_3224.html

[/quote]

 

It's panto time! Oh no he didn't, he said  "which contrary to french legislation have never been implemented;"

[/quote]

Sorry you are losing me.... are we back on the ambiguous, implied negative, until thread again?

[/quote]

And are you sure that you are talking to the correct person this time? [:P]

 

 

 

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The French government are in compliance with EU law. They have every right under EU legislation to expel the Roma assuming they have been in France for longer than 3 months.

The EU Free movement Directive (2004/38/EC) states that EU citizens may reside in another member state for up to 3 months, without conditions. However, stays of longer have conditions: The citizen must be working, studying or have enough funds to avoid being a burden on the state.

The EU have no grounds to criticise France when EU law is being respected.

Whether or not we like or dislike the Roma, their ethnic origins, the colour of their skin, etc are all irrelevant. This is simply a case of compliance with EU legislation.

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Not sure where in EU law it states that member countries can inform Prefectures in writing to target all Roma, and only Roma, for deportation, without investigation, arrest, or trial. When asked by the EU Justice Commissioner if this was true, deny such a circular exists. 2 days later a copy of the circular is printed in Le Monde.

There is no question that the Dwarf, and his overpriviledged little clique, have the right under EU law to remove people who are in breach of the law. However, the bits in bold are what the EU is peeved about. As the true facts have come out in the French press, of this weekend 52% of French people questioned agreed with the EU position. If it went to a vote in Parlement, he would easily lose, the PS and a good number of the UMP would vote against him. (I can't comment how the UK press have reported this case, maybe they're missed out a few pertinent facts?)

 

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I don't think its right to target a specific group like this. I agree with what the EU has said and to which Ade100 refers in that as a citizen/passport holder of an EU member state you can freely move around the European Union but you can't be a drain on the resources of the country in which you have chosen to reside. The only problem of throwing out all those that are a drain is that it would undoubtedly upset many other EU states when their citizens are returned. I mean, if you implement a law based on this EU directive then it has to be applied equally and fairly to all. I also don't understand why, like many Brits who paid very little in to the French State system, they can't be given some form of grace in the same way like if you have filled in a tax return for the last 5 years but the amount is zero or whatever you can stay.

As for the article on Euronews, that gentleman may have his views but they seem to be at difference with many of those ordinary Spanish living there, well the ones I have met anyway. I understand that Barcelona has gone from 58th the 32nd in the most dangerous cities in the world league table and that many of the Spanish and Catalan people living there directly blame the high concentration of Eastern Europeans and Roma's. How true that really is I do not know its only what they tell me.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

 I also don't understand why, like many Brits who paid very little in to the French State system, they can't be given some form of grace in the same way like if you have filled in a tax return for the last 5 years but the amount is zero or whatever you can stay.[/quote]

Roms/gypsies and tax returns, mmmm, interesting concept [:P]

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[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 I also don't understand why, like many Brits who paid very little in to the French State system, they can't be given some form of grace in the same way like if you have filled in a tax return for the last 5 years but the amount is zero or whatever you can stay.[/quote]

Roms/gypsies and tax returns, mmmm, interesting concept [:P]

[/quote]

Yes, but you know as well as me there are thousands of Brits and other nationalities that will quite happily tell you they don't complete one in France because of some self deluding reason when those of us that play by the rules know full well they should. This is what I mean, treat everyone the same. Perhaps that might become a compromise with the EU that France has to agree to, look at everyone, see if they are legally here and if not throw them out (or should I say return them). There would be a few bottoms twitching round our locale if they went down that route I can tell you.

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Mine is already doing a half crown threepenny bit impression Q [:)] [blink]

Still when it costs me around €120 for a return trip to the UK a bung of €300 euros and a free crossing would be gratefully recieved and I could bring another second hand car back with me each time to resell.

We have 2 aires d'acueil de gens de voyage near me and the faciities look first class, I keep meaning to drop by and see what sort of welcome I get, interestingly both were still completely empty up to a couple of weeks ago and both are now full, these manouches clearly dont hold with the Juilletist or Aoutist mentality of the French and pick sensible times for their holidays, not being told when to take their holidays by the employers or the schools has its advantages.

Does anyone know what it costs to stay on these aires or if you have to have a carnet de voyage?

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[quote user="Quillan"]

I don't think its right to target a specific group like this. I agree with what the EU has said and to which Ade100 refers in that as a citizen/passport holder of an EU member state you can freely move around the European Union but you can't be a drain on the resources of the country in which you have chosen to reside. The only problem of throwing out all those that are a drain is that it would undoubtedly upset many other EU states when their citizens are returned. I mean, if you implement a law based on this EU directive then it has to be applied equally and fairly to all. I also don't understand why, like many Brits who paid very little in to the French State system, they can't be given some form of grace in the same way like if you have filled in a tax return for the last 5 years but the amount is zero or whatever you can stay.

[/quote]

If this ever went to court, which it won't, because of the acute flimsiness of the Brussels case, the French government would say, quite justifiably, they are not "targetting" Roma but "prioritising" their removal from shanty encampments.  If multiple large gangs of illegal Brits were setting up unsightly,illegal, unlicensed, unhealthy camps on both public and private property and using them as bases for various unwelcome forms of illegal activity, they could expect to be "targetted" in the same way.    

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[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 I also don't understand why, like many Brits who paid very little in to the French State system, they can't be given some form of grace in the same way like if you have filled in a tax return for the last 5 years but the amount is zero or whatever you can stay.[/quote]

Roms/gypsies and tax returns, mmmm, interesting concept [:P]

[/quote]

Yes, but you know as well as me there are thousands of Brits and other nationalities that will quite happily tell you they don't complete one in France because of some self deluding reason when those of us that play by the rules know full well they should. This is what I mean, treat everyone the same. Perhaps that might become a compromise with the EU that France has to agree to, look at everyone, see if they are legally here and if not throw them out (or should I say return them). There would be a few bottoms twitching round our locale if they went down that route I can tell you.

[/quote]

Hence my comment in my OP regarding Dordogneshire[:D]

The Dwarf has painted himself into a political corner. He's let the genie out the bottle regarding EU immigrants. He'll come out kicking, biting and scratching.

 

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[quote user="pachapapa"]No real idea as to Barça; I refuse to speak Catala and the Catalans refuse to speak Spanish.[/quote]

And me. 3 years in BCN. All the commune communications, bank info, everything in Catalan. Most the people I worked with were Castilliano, they had the same issues. Si us plau! And why I never went to Camp Nou. Went to Mont Juic.

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The author of the original circular demanding the destruction of the camps, and deportation of the Roma, is going on trial. Charge is inciting racial hatred.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/circulaire-roms-le-directeur-de-cabinet-d-hortefeux-sera-juge-en-novembre-28-09-2010-1086575.php

Be interesting to see if he will take the fall, or dump his boss in it. And if that happens, does Hortefeux dump the poisious dwarf in it. [:D]

 

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Maybe not The Hague, but the EU are after him, they've commenced formal proceedings.......................

http://www.francesoir.fr/europe-politique/roms-bruxelles-veut-lancer-une-procedure-dinfraction-contre-la-france.30205

Bit sad in a way. The EU can only take action against a country, when even the majority in the country don't agree with the actions of a clique in Govn. A country gets attacked for the stupidity of 3 people.[:@]

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Maybe not The Hague, but the EU are after him, they've commenced formal proceedings.......................

http://www.francesoir.fr/europe-politique/roms-bruxelles-veut-lancer-une-procedure-dinfraction-contre-la-france.30205

Bit sad in a way. The EU can only take action against a country, when even the majority in the country don't agree with the actions of a clique in Govn. A country gets attacked for the stupidity of 3 people.[:@]

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According to the local french radio station the Notice of Infraction Advisory was NOT REDACTED in french and a translation has been requested by the French Diplomatic Corps.

Jees...cant they understand english!!!    I thought they were educated at GRANDES ECOLES for the elite....They must be dumber than, the CATALANS.[:D]

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Looking at what France is now being asked to do by the EU, ie change its immigration rules, (it has been revealed others countries have not altered their laws to allow the free movement of Eu persons).

This might mean that French health regulations which are also in conravention of Eu regs, ie the requirement for funding private health care for 5 years, might have to be changed - I believe the Eu are also looking at the French health regulations in this matter as well.
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