Lawless France

[ebaynut]

Firstly you don't have to address me like this, eBaynut will surffice.

Secondly, IMHO yes.

Thirdly, No, thankfully. I like to keep most of the money I earn.

Fourthly, I have my own opinion as to how we in the UK could have solved this, but I doubt it would be in line with your thinking.

[KathyF]

[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Gardener"][quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Clair"]I watched images of the "protests" on the  French news and couldn't help but be reminded of the poll tax and Moss Side riots back in the days...


[/quote] Moss side, Toxteth, Broadwater farm, all good reasons for the UK to have closed it boarders years ago IMHO. None of these can be blamed on the English.[/quote] It happened in England so whose fault was it?[/quote] The UK governments fault for allowing people from outside the UK to live in the country.....[/quote]

The government didn't just allow immigrants to settle in the UK, ebaynut. Back in the 50s they actually invited them to do so, to fill the pressing need for more workers, especially workers willing to do the dirty, low-paid jobs the English (since you seem not to be talking about the British [;-)]) no longer wanted to do themselves. Once you've invited people, you can't really kick them out when you don't need them anymore.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="KathyF"]. Once you've invited people, you can't really kick them out when you don't need them anymore.

[/quote]

Oh but you can !!!

Its called a work permit system and has been in practice for many years in other parts of the World.

as an example,....I have been "invited" to work in the UAE, I accepted that invitation. When the work that I have been invited to do is complete I will have to leave.....simples.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Gardener"]

Gluestick commented ...'have missed the identical actions of the misnamed UK outfit Unite Against Fascism'

is this the group that appear opposite the equally misnamed outfit English Defense League , Gluestick?[/quote]

And this is all they do?

Are you aware of UAF's inner circle of organisers? And who, nominally support them? And which groups, behind the scenes, pull their strings?

As I stated before, Rent-A-Mob (Peter Simple's invention many years ago and even more apposite today).

[Gluestick]

[quote user="KathyF"]

[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Gardener"][quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Clair"]I watched images of the "protests" on the  French news and couldn't help but be reminded of the poll tax and Moss Side riots back in the days...

[/quote] Moss side, Toxteth, Broadwater farm, all good reasons for the UK to have closed it boarders years ago IMHO. None of these can be blamed on the English.[/quote] It happened in England so whose fault was it?[/quote] The UK governments fault for allowing people from outside the UK to live in the country.....[/quote]

The government didn't just allow immigrants to settle in the UK, ebaynut. Back in the 50s they actually invited them to do so, to fill the pressing need for more workers, especially workers willing to do the dirty, low-paid jobs the English (since you seem not to be talking about the British [;-)]) no longer wanted to do themselves. Once you've invited people, you can't really kick them out when you don't need them anymore.

[/quote]

You seem unaware of Andrew Neather's Whistleblower act, KathyF

More interestingly, both NuLab under Brown's flawed command and Call me Dave's shambolic outfit have determined incoming workers can only stay for work on a time-limited visa and work permit: and more so, "Students" who are not and overstay their student visa.

[KathyF]

Yes, I was, Gluestick, but a quick Google shows it really doesn't matter. [:)]

http://the-sun-lies.blogspot.com/2009/11/reward-for-puppy-facebook-and.html

Anyway, I was talking about immigration in the middle of the last century, predating the civil unrest of the 1980s. Neather was talking about much more recent governments, so is irrelevant in this context. Circumstances change and policies change with them.

[KathyF]

[quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="KathyF"]. Once you've invited people, you can't really kick them out when you don't need them anymore.

[/quote] Oh but you can !!! Its called a work permit system and has been in practice for many years in other parts of the World. as an example,....I have been "invited" to work in the UAE, I accepted that invitation. When the work that I have been invited to do is complete I will have to leave.....simples.[/quote]

Agreed, but only if the work permit system is in force at the time you invite them.  It wasn't back in the 1950s and 60s.  Then the invitation was open-ended.

[Will]

So once again a discussion about French current affairs degenerates into Daily-Mail-style UK bashing, particularly directed at immigration. Perhaps the mods would care to move it to a non-France-related section of the forum?

[Gluestick]

I rarely disagree with you Will, however must say that the orientation of this topic was steered, earlier on, by those endeavouring to compare the present grève in France and the underlying socio-political tensions to similar situations in UK.

Which is wholly facile: as is trying to compare socio-economic dynamics of France to UK or indeed, anywhere else.

It is hardly surprising, therefore, the topic has finished up where it is now.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Will"]So once again a discussion about French current affairs degenerates into Daily-Mail-style UK bashing, particularly directed at immigration. Perhaps the mods would care to move it to a non-France-related section of the forum?

[/quote]

I think you will find if you re read this thread it was a mod who first brought up the UK!!!!!!

[woolybanana]

There was never a decent, in depth, public discussion of immigration Will; it was never allowed by the establishment left, which is why it bursts out from time to time. And please do not try to control discussion by citing the Daily Mail as a weapon.

However, the thread has travelled from its original purpose which is a shame, but inevitable.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="KathyF"]

[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Gardener"][quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Clair"]I watched images of the "protests" on the  French news and couldn't help but be reminded of the poll tax and Moss Side riots back in the days...

[/quote] Moss side, Toxteth, Broadwater farm, all good reasons for the UK to have closed it boarders years ago IMHO. None of these can be blamed on the English.[/quote] It happened in England so whose fault was it?[/quote] The UK governments fault for allowing people from outside the UK to live in the country.....[/quote]

The government didn't just allow immigrants to settle in the UK, ebaynut. Back in the 50s they actually invited them to do so, to fill the pressing need for more workers, especially workers willing to do the dirty, low-paid jobs the English (since you seem not to be talking about the British [;-)]) no longer wanted to do themselves. Once you've invited people, you can't really kick them out when you don't need them anymore.

[/quote]

Its a shame that many found drug dealing, mugging and crime in general more to their taste. If they had stuck to what they were brought here for in the first place perhaps so many BRITISH people would not be thinking of leaving their home country.

[Will]

[quote user="ebaynut"]

...perhaps so many BRITISH people would not be thinking of leaving their home country.[/quote]

At least as far as France and Spain are concerned, I currently see as many, maybe more, British people returning to Britain than there are emigrating.

[Gardener]

Mods are you really going to allow Ebaynut's rampant and blatant racism to continue unabated.

These comments on a forum for immigrants, of which ebaynut is not one, are IMO are beyond the pale.

[woolybanana]

Just to strike a balance, the Daily Mail found some lovely fotos of the strikers today, though immigrants. Just look at those teeth! No wonder the wanted to get the heck out of their country[6]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322118/British-fisherman-grapples-giant-piranha-goliath-tigerfish.html

[Frederick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZFJjQiO2CU

 SNCF....enjoy !

 

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Will"][quote user="ebaynut"]

...perhaps so many BRITISH people would not be thinking of leaving their home country.[/quote]

At least as far as France and Spain are concerned, I currently see as many, maybe more, British people returning to Britain than there are emigrating.

[/quote]

Perhaps there is hope that life in the UK will improve now that Mr Blair/Brown have finally been shown the door.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Gardener"]Mods are you really going to allow Ebaynut's rampant and blatant racism to continue unabated.

These comments on a forum for immigrants, of which ebaynut is not one, are IMO are beyond the pale.[/quote]

Just because we do not agree on this subject does not mean I cannot put my point of view forward.

Please remember that I contribute financially to the running of this forum, do you?????

[betty]

[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Will"]So once again a discussion about French current affairs degenerates into Daily-Mail-style UK bashing, particularly directed at immigration. Perhaps the mods would care to move it to a non-France-related section of the forum?

[/quote] I think you will find if you re read this thread it was a mod who first brought up the UK!!!!!![/quote]

 

and NormanH brought up Britain in post No.5

[virginia.c]

Well I for one am hugely enjoying this Thread/debate. Betty, you are a feisty lady, more power to your elbow and, wooly, you are absolutely right. No sensible debate has ever been allowed to happen in the UK, more's the pity.

I'm glued to the forum today - torn between it and the sunshine!

[Will]

[quote user="virginia.c"]...No sensible debate has ever been allowed to happen in the UK, more's the pity.

[/quote]

Could you explain, please? I was always under the impression that freedom of the press, impartiality in broadcasting, and general freedom of expression was encouraged in Britain, far more than most other countries.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="ebaynut"][quote user="Gardener"]Mods are you really going to allow Ebaynut's rampant and blatant racism to continue unabated.

These comments on a forum for immigrants, of which ebaynut is not one, are IMO are beyond the pale.[/quote]

Just because we do not agree on this subject does not mean I cannot put my point of view forward.

Please remember that I contribute financially to the running of this forum, do you?????[/quote]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[virginia.c]

Ah, now there's the rub. One's impression is very different from another's isn't it? Rather like one's opinion is very different from another's? Recent reporting (and not) of certain footballer's off the pitch activities would maybe give a different impression of the freedom of the press?

[just john]

[quote user="betty"] This whole strike business is getting beyond the joke.

Today on the news, shops are being looted in Lyon and cars set alight in Paris.

Last week I was cycling to the local supermarket and the gendarmes stopped me from continuing for my own safety due to a student protest re the grève.

What! Arrest the students, don’t block me. [/quote]

 

Quite so Bet, if the law is to be upheld then as well as the right to protest, there is an equivalent right not to prevent the liberty of a citizen, and if the police are there in any legal role as opposed to an underhand support of intimidating protest, surely this is the first law that should be applied.

 

However if it is possible to step back, Pouvez-vous voir la forêt pour les arbres?
I've been here before, it doesn't matter who the protesters are, they are the result of market forces.

Blame China perhaps, they maybe the factory of the world, but are not spending their earnings in an equal world commercial exchange let alone with France; the French workman is buying his tools from China but they are not buying his product (apart from a little wine to add to their coca-cola.[:)]
France cannot support it's dinosaur state (anymore than many other European states) with its income,
whoever the government is, the wind of change is about.
These protests are just hardening attitudes for the changes which are bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[woolybanana]

[quote user="Will"][quote user="virginia.c"]...No sensible debate has ever been allowed to happen in the UK, more's the pity.
[/quote]

Could you explain, please? I was always under the impression that freedom of the press, impartiality in broadcasting, and general freedom of expression was encouraged in Britain, far more than most other countries.
[/quote]

Not sure the British people were ever consulted about the last mass immigration, were they, Will? In fact it was hidden like a guilty secret by a government determined to break the mould as they perceived it. Because they knew that it would not have been tolerated.