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Lawless France


betty
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Why have the miners been draged into this?I lived in a mining town in Kent during the strikes.What I saw was an eye opener.I was a union member all my working life.What was done in the name of the"cause"beggared belief.
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Re Churchill, I remember when he died, my grandmother who was born in 1882 was at our house and I said how sad it was that he had died. Thought she was going to hit me, what vehemence when she said that he had ordered the soldiers to shoot at the miners and he could rot in hell.

Rightly or wrongly that old lady hated him, she died the following year.
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May I please take this opportunity of making an open apology in and upon reflection extending this thread to the history of the mining community.

It certainly was not my intention so to do simply to make the point that the State (and certainly during the strike) has a role to play but how it exercises that role is a totally different argument. That I did not succeed in doing.

Thus sorry:

Final point and I will return to 'France' later today is that if you were to go to the Miners Library at Hendrefoilan near Swansea there you will find chapter and verse of all the disputes over the years. Churchill troops did fire and kill miners. Fact. The photographs are there for all to see.
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This made me chuckle:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11603953

"Union official Charles Foulard described the action as "a scandal" because police had acted in the middle of the night when the number of protesters was relatively small."

Well, surely you couldn't have imagined they'd try and take control when you're at your strongest? What an idiot. Flawed by basic tactics there!

Meanwhile, over in England...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11604098

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Interesting to read that a young female student in lyon had been handed down a 6 months prison sentence, NOT SUSPENDED, on wednesday. For apparently setting fire to a dustbin.

Certainly puts more into perspective the interview today on page 5 of Le Parisien with a young "casseur" from the Nanterre area; in which he declared that his actions were based 50% on an anti retirement reform stance and the other 50% to get revenge on the police.

Looks like the incidence of "no go" areas in urban france will be on the up.

 

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[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]This made me chuckle:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11603953

"Union official Charles Foulard described the action as "a scandal" because police had acted in the middle of the night when the number of protesters was relatively small."

Well, surely you couldn't have imagined they'd try and take control when you're at your strongest? What an idiot. Flawed by basic tactics there!

[/quote]

Made me chuckle too -- obviously presuming on the "right" to strike being all persuasive!  First rule of warfare - strike when enemy least expects, from Gideon with the walls of Jericho, Lawrence (of Arabia) and his sudden raids on the Turkish trains,  and ever since!

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While all this was going on I noticed in La Figaro this morning that a few bills were passed yesterday with a few possible 'nasties'. The level at which tax is paid on redundancy money has been drastically reduced, it used come in at 10 times the payment but has been reduced to 3. The tax on unearned income has been raised by 5%. There are some changes to the health system. Tobacco manufacturers will have a 25% tax placed on all their produce (that's different to the normal tax you pay on cigarettes etc at retail outlets). There was some other stuff as well about CDS. Sadly it's been moved off the 'front page' on the website due to the vote today else I would give a link.
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[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Bill has been passed. What now?[/quote]

 

Take cover! and I don’t mean from the rain, rather more from “les jeûnes” that

self-esteem ppp would appear to support, which I find quite disturbing.

 

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[quote user="betty"]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Bill has been passed. What now?[/quote]

 

Take cover! and I don’t mean from the rain, rather more from “les jeûnes” that

self-esteem ppp would appear to support, which I find quite disturbing.

 

[/quote]

More female students participated than male, particularly in Lyon.

1967 was in Grosvenor Square, 1968 Rue St Mich"[:)]

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="betty"]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Bill has been passed. What now?[/quote]

 

Take cover! and I don’t mean from the rain, rather more from “les jeûnes” that

self-esteem ppp would appear to support, which I find quite disturbing.

 

[/quote]

More female students participated than male, particularly in Lyon.

1967 was in Grosvenor Square, 1968 Rue St Mich"[:)]

[/quote]

What on earth has that got to do with my post, are they, or are they not les jeûnes? On other the other hand perhaps you indicating that you are a MCP along with other unmentionables?

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[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Bill has been passed.

What now?[/quote]

Employing the vulgar American expression, "It aint all over 'till the Fat Lady sings!", le état- providence, has seen various initiatives to drive through unpopular reform: and some have failed.

Remembering both Lionel Jospin and Dominique de Villepin were compelled to step down as PM, after having both tried manfully to change the social contract, and lost huge credibility in the process: de Villepin, particularly, was being groomed by Chirac as his successor as le President, for the UMP, at one point.

Therefore one would suggest it is now a battle of wills and determination between a majority of French workers and the government.

Reforming the Social Contract is neither a simple matter nor a foregone conclusion.

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[quote user="Gluestick"] "It aint all over 'till the Fat Lady sings!", it is now a battle of wills and determination between a majority of French workers and the government. [/quote]

More a question of when the tractor hits the wall I think Gluey, (unless of course someone changes direction)

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[quote user="betty"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="betty"]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Bill has been passed. What now?[/quote]

 

Take cover! and I don’t mean from the rain, rather more from “les jeûnes” that

self-esteem ppp would appear to support, which I find quite disturbing.

 

[/quote]

More female students participated than male, particularly in Lyon.

1967 was in Grosvenor Square, 1968 Rue St Mich"[:)]

[/quote]

What on earth has that got to do with my post, are they, or are they not les jeûnes? On other the other hand perhaps you indicating that you are a MCP along with other unmentionables?

[/quote]

MCP wozzat? Is it good or bad?

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="betty"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="betty"]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Bill has been passed. What now?[/quote]

 

Take cover! and I don’t mean from the rain, rather more from “les jeûnes” that

self-esteem ppp would appear to support, which I find quite disturbing.

 

[/quote]

More female students participated than male, particularly in Lyon.

1967 was in Grosvenor Square, 1968 Rue St Mich"[:)]

[/quote]

What on earth has that got to do with my post, are they, or are they not les jeûnes? On other the other hand perhaps you indicating that you are a MCP along with other unmentionables?

[/quote]

MCP wozzat? Is it good or bad?

[/quote]

MCP? I am surprised you did not know that.

 

M:Male

C:Chauvinist

P:There are other versions but for the time being lets name it

 

Good or bad? You decide.

Post edited by the moderators.

Please do not post messages which are insulting, abusive,

racist, sexist, or derogatory in any way to others, whether they are

individuals or companies, users of the Forum or not.

 

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One problem which no commentator has aired, in the welter of media coverage on le grèv, is where, precisely, are the jobs going to come from which keep French oldsters gainfully employed, now, until they can draw their retirement pension?

Britain's governments (of all political colours), have robustly avoided enacting legislation on ageism: until recently: and the statutory position still leaves multitude loopholes.

Everyone cannot be, for example, a greeter at Carrefour!

This is one of the core problems with the Social State, as envisioned by such as William Beveridge in his seminal document, The Berveridge Report, published in December 1942: the findings became enacted into law by Clem Attlee's from 1945 onwards and created the embryo Welfare State. (Which really followed on from the bare system realised by the Liberals within the so-called People's Budget (1909: Asquith: See here:)

See here:

France's own beginnings of a welfare state commenced post WWI and around 1919/24. (having commenced in circa 1880).

The capitalist imperative, around which most Western nation states function, in terms of their socio-economy, (Despite whether Government is left Wing, Right Wing or Centreist), demands people enjoy a certain minimum income, in order to pay local and national taxes and simply survive.

Above this level of subsistence, greater disposable income is essential to afford to participate in modern lifestyles.

However, both venal employers and national governments are now doing everything in their power to sort of ensure increasing rafts of people are excluded, on the grounds of lack of sufficient disposable income!

It is rather useful to consider what has happened in the USA, for those advocating a sort of Libertarian ethos and removal of a majority of state intervention and support and a focus on private sector provision of healthcare insurance and retirement pensions and etc.

Increasing tens of millions of blue collar workers and middle-managers, thrown out of employment since, say, 1999/2000 have been compelled to take McJobs, at vastly inferior wage; accordingly, they are unable to afford healthcare insurance and any form of savings for their retirement.

In the UK, government waxed lyrical over Stakeholder pensions: at the same time as rapidly increasing general and stealth taxes: and perhaps worse, allowing exploitative costs (Utilities) to zoom to the almost unaffordable.

And, of course, those who most needed state pension provision, could not consider taking up a Stakeholder or any other form of pension.

As I stated, previously, "It aint all over 'till the Fat Lady sings!"

This one has some way to run before le petit President can consider it is a faite accompli.

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