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British workers in the EU


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Thought you might be surprised by the EU's official stats on the apparently low number of British workers in the EU.

According to Eurostat, the number of UK Nationals working in other EU countries is approximately 286,000. The main destinations are Germany 65,000, Ireland 52,000, Spain 42,000, France 36,000, Netherlands 28,000.

The number of EU workers in Britain is three or four times the number of British workers in the EU, depending on whether you take the EU born or those who are still EU nationals. Reasons for this imbalance may include limited language skills among British workers, relatively low unemployment rates in Britain in recent years and the fact that UK wages are generally higher than in most EU countries.

Seems to confirm that most Brits living in France are retirees.

Source Eurostat 2008 Q3
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And confirms that Britain is a good place in which to work, compared with most other European countries.

Or maybe that certain countries with high unemployment and restrictive employment regimes are rather xenophobic when it comes to employing non-nationals?

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[quote user="Sprogster"] The main destinations are ... France 36,000, ...[/quote]

So there are 36,000 Brits in France and according to this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582913/Nicolas-Sarkozy-fails-to-win-back-Britains-French-community.html), 300,000 French people in London alone:

"Numerically speaking, London is France's sixth largest city after Nice, with a population of up to 300,000 French residents."

It's always worth pointing out when you hear French people complaining there are too many Brits in their country.

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I think, as the original post made clear, that the 36,000 figure refers to British working in France. There are the same number multiplied several times who live in France and are 'inactif' as the French charmingly put it. And certainly, with the 300,000 French in London, at least one member of each family is working.

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Not sure how these figures are collated. I've never been asked directly. I'm not registered at the Consulate. HR don't record my nationality. How does EuroStat know I exist?

Conversely the missus registered at the Consulate in London when we lived in the UK, so she could vote. Past that, again, I don't know how Eurostat would know about her. To HR, she was "Other White European".

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As stated I think language plays a very major role and I have seen a number of Brits (and to be fair Americans and Canadians) come to Germany and then leave again in a relatively short time, with language being a key issue.  This not just for them but also for any children.  Partners can find it extremely difficult, since OH is out all day with his/her work colleagues and presumably communicating with them, while the partner is often unable to communicate with anyone.

 

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velcorin, the tax and social security authorities have of course this information, if you are legal! This would be shared with other government agencies and in turn reported to the EU.

I am certain the EU put a lot of importance on collating this sort of information, as for example a lot of bi-lateral payments, such as to medical care, rely on this sort of data.
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[quote user="Sprogster"]velcorin, the tax and social security authorities have of course this information, if you are legal![/quote]

Nope. I still don't get it. I must be thick. I earn in France, I pay tax in France. How do they know my nationality? Previously we were in Barcelona. Same company. Before that Germany. Same company. Surely at some point my link to the UK breaks?

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If at no point you have had to disclose what your citizenship is, then maybe they base it on place of birth. Nowadays you have to produce a certified copy of your passport and birth certificate to breathe, so do not understand why it would be difficult for the functionaires to work out your nationality!

Maybe, more relaxed in the past.
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[quote user="velcorin"]

[quote user="Sprogster"]velcorin, the tax and social security authorities have of course this information, if you are legal![/quote]

Nope. I still don't get it. I must be thick. I earn in France, I pay tax in France. How do they know my nationality? 

[/quote]Didn't you tell the British government (tax, social security,pensions service etc) when you left the UK and where you went?  I know I did! Surely, there's nothing to say that the info' came from the country you went to as opposed to the one you left?  Of course it could just as easily be me who is being thick Velcorin!
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[quote user="woolybanana"]

When I left last time, some 16 years ago, I don't think there was a requirement to tell them.

 

[/quote]I'm still not sure you have to, Wools, but surely many people do, if only to stop the tax office chasing them for a return every year, and to make sure they know where to send any state pension owing, etc, when the time comes?  My point is, that I doubt there are many whose change of country isn't known to at least one authority.  What happens when your passport comes up for renewal, for instance?
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[quote user="Panda"]

But when you do your tax return in France place of birth is requested isn't it, or have I dreamt that?  I know I was always being asked to fill out my place of birth.

[/quote]I certainly have to tell my health caisse also.  I suspect it's pretty hard to get under the nationality radar in either country (or practically any in the EU come to that - although I have limited to no expericence of living in any of the others!)
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[quote user="Panda"]

But when you do your tax return in France place of birth is requested isn't it, or have I dreamt that?  I know I was always being asked to fill out my place of birth.

[/quote]

That could be it. My MiL's Accountant does all that. I wouldn't know.

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[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="woolybanana"]

When I left last time, some 16 years ago, I don't think there was a requirement to tell them.

 

[/quote]..  What happens when your passport comes up for renewal, for instance?[/quote] I renewed my passport a couple of months ago and dont recall any question about which country I lived in. It was done in person though, at Newport.
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I think the fact that the numbers are all rounded to the nearest 1000 suggests that the data is being collected based on a number of statistical techniques.

 

Some have been mentioned above.  Certainly in the background the tax authorities do exchange data as I found out when the UK authorities asked me to confirm my NI record for them to transmit as (IIRC) an E218 for the German authorities.  I asked the UK why this information was being requested.  They said that they couldn't say - and you can interpret that in one of 2 ways.  So Germany certainly knows my nationality and that I am working.  If the UK had not asked me to confirm the NI record, I would have been none the wiser.

I seem to remember on the census return in France they recorded my nationalty and certainly that I was working abroad.  The French tax authorities know this as well.  Of course the census is done on a sample basis unlike the UK - but this means that you have a more up to date picture, unlike the UK whose data is now 9 years out of date.  The French statisticians can then estimate the whole population based on their sample census.

 

So there will be several methods of collecting data.  They will be different from country to country.  They will probably be giving different answers and the statisticians then manipulate* the numbers to give a realistic estimate. 

 

* There is a German saying: Never believe any statistic that you have not personally falsified.

 

Nevertheless I would expect the numbers to be a broad reflection of the truth - at least for those working legally.

 

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When we registered for tax in France we were asked our nationality. On our Impot's form there is  code number (I can't remember what it is without looking) that refers to our nationality. To get our French health care we have to send a copy of our Impot which means they can decipher the code and know which country we came from.

If you have officially emigrated out of the UK you must tell the UK tax authorities and technically (I read at the time) you are supposed to hand in your NI card at the place of exit. We tried to do the latter but all we got were blank looks so perhaps the information I got was wrong or they didn't know. With the tax (like other things) we sent a registered letter to our tax office (in my case having owned a Ltd company I sent a copy of my tax clearance certificate). Some 5 years later I received a penalty notice for £500 plus interest for not completing a UK tax return. I had never given them an address in France so how they found me I do not know. I spoke to them on the phone and suggested I send copies of my Impot documents (to prove that for those years I had been registered in France and paid tax here) but they were not interested. They told me to write it all down and post it to them which I duly did and also stated that I had informed them I was leaving the UK and attached a copy of the registered letter receipt. I got, what I considered, a very snotty letter back saying they had lost my letter, they would 'let me off' the £500 plus interest on this occasion and that should I return to the UK permanently to let them know. I thought the letter very condescending in general and actually took offence, I mean its not my fault they lost the letter.

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