Burka ban passed

[Pierre ZFP]

Have I missed something?

Is this law actually enforced yet?

The reason I ask is that last Saturday I passed through Lyon and stopped at a huge hypermarket where I was quite surprised to see a very large number of (I assume) Muslim women (also an assumption) wearing the full head-to-toe outfits with just cutouts for the eyes.

My wife said she found such dress very spooky but what really annoyed her was that the woman would be accompanied by a man wearing typically a Nike T shirt and shorts. Why don't the men cover up too?

[Quillan]

No its not, it will be 'ratified' in September and become law (as normal) in Jan 2011.

[mint]

Well, our insect nets, as recommended by Bugsy, arrived today.

I shall be discussing with Gemonimo the likelihood of our being arrested for breaking the law if we wore them on the French side of the Pyrenees.  Fortunately, in September, we shall be starting from Roncesvalles (which is on the Spanish side).

These nets are something else:  made of a very fine green mesh, no facial features will be distinguishable (not even to midges)!

OH says my net gives me an air of mystery.  Before he could request that I do the Dance of the Seven Veils, I have quickly assured  him that I only have the one veil.[:$]

[just john]

[quote user="sweet 17"] Well, our insect nets, as recommended by Bugsy, arrived today. I shall be discussing with Gemonimo the likelihood of our being arrested for breaking the law if we wore them on the French side of the Pyrenees.  Fortunately, in September, we shall be starting from Roncesvalles (which is on the Spanish side). These nets are something else:  made of a very fine green mesh, no facial features will be distinguishable (not even to midges)! OH says my net gives me an air of mystery. 
Before he could request that I do the Dance of the Seven Veils, I have quickly assured  him that I only have the one veil.[:$][/quote]

And in the afternoon too! That act should go down a storm at the Summer Gala Concert in the Park! though you might prefer the fireworks at midnight as a backdrop Sweets, if you need any props I'm sure we could rustle up some ice cream cornets[;-)]

The thrust of this law should be about visible facial features and not religion, afterall everyone expects Motorcyle couriers to remove their helmets in buildings and Security G4 uniforms include an open face helmet.

[krusty]

Whats your opinions on the burkini ?

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r312/bobo5501/burkini.jpg[/IMG]

and a news story click here

[NickP]

I don't have a problem with the storey of two Muslim women being thrown out of a swimming pool for wearing the burkini in the water,  in our local pool in France men are not allowed to wear swimming shorts, long or short, only swimming  trunks. And believe you me there are some pretty awful sights with old men in speedos. [:D]

[Gardener]

[quote user="NickP"]I don't have a problem with the storey of two Muslim women being thrown out of a swimming pool for wearing the burkini in the water,  in our local pool in France men are not allowed to wear swimming shorts, long or short, only swimming  trunks. And believe you me there are some pretty awful sights with old men in speedos. [:D][/quote]

Very true, Nick.

Sickening though that the angle of the story in that bloody paper, is to run it as another stick for their rabid readers to beat muslims with.

[velcorin]

Did the DM just totally invent their story? Can't find any reference to it in the French media[8-)]

[Gardener]

I only found this one

http://www.lindependant.com/articles/2010-07-23/deux-femmes-voilees-privees-de-piscine-219870.php

I don't know where the Mail got the bit about the husband threatening the guard with a bowling ball from as it isn't mentioned in the French news [8-)] Whatever did happen, the families continued their holidays at the resort.

[Pierre ZFP]

[quote user="NickP"]I don't have a problem with the storey of two Muslim women being thrown out of a swimming pool for wearing the burkini in the water,  in our local pool in France men are not allowed to wear swimming shorts, long or short, only swimming  trunks. And believe you me there are some pretty awful sights with old men in speedos. [:D][/quote]

I got thrown out of a pool for wearing Speedo!

Well, how did I know that the 'S' had fallen off?  [:$]

 

[Keni]

The reason Tunisia banned it is because it is nothing to so with religion! My friends have told me Islam merely says that you should be respectful - the same in a Christian church where women cover their heads, not their features. It is the old story (sorry not a feminist) whereby the religion in question has its rules created often by men - who I often say are more than jobsworths and would do everything they can to make sure they are powerful. There is nothing about women being subjugated - in fact they should be revered as a giver of life! See an earlier post!

[Swissie]

Can you really 'empower' someone by 'criminalising' them?

Let's imagine - a woman is stopped by a Policeman in a French town and asked to remove her burkah and pay a fine. She replies that it is her personal choice and that she does not wish to do so. What happens next? Another fine? Court? Prison?

What will ensue?  Will Muslim women

a/  stay at home and be practically imprisoned     (will that empower and liberate them?)

b/ keep fighting for their right to choose and fill courts and prisons- Will other Muslim women defy the new rulings in large numbers- and actually motivate other Muslim and non- Muslim women to wear a burka in sympathy, to defy the courts? Will that really help relations with an already very alienated section of the French population

c/ take off their burkas and forget they ever existed, and become 'perfect' French citizens (!!)?

For better, or for worse?

[chessie]

No Swissi not 'take off their Burkas..' - but accept that they are living in a democratic, egalitarian, free society in which the wearing of a medieval item of clothing designed for the sands of the desert is ridiculous.  

Let them wear their 'black shrouds' in their homes if they feel so strongly.     But they are in the West, where such attire is seen as a rejection of the western way of life - for all the good and bad that goes with it.

The west should only accept women wearing the Burka when it is possible for European women in the Middle East to wear their normal western clothing, to drink alcohol and to attend Christian churches.

If the Burka women wish to live in a western 21st century democratic country - then they should integrate and leave their medieval dress behind.    It is, as mentioned many times, not a requirement of their religion, nor law, nor mentioned in the Koran. 

I do get the impression that a lot of the women who 'say' they want to wear the Burka do so out of a feeling of just wanting to be 'different' - or to make a statement about disliking the society in which they live and not wishing to integrate....... 

Chessie

[Quillan]

I think those that are already here should be exempt from the ban, I mean the French say they are under 2,000 of them, and those thinking of coming should be made aware that there is a law that effectively bans them for wearing a Burka otherwise its a bit like changing the rules of a football match half way through. What I am saying is those Muslims already here where here before the ban and the legal situation then may have been instrumental in their moving to France, so its a bit unfair to change the law for them. You could say if they have baby girls the new law would apply to their child, its then their decision. On the other hand people coming to France from a Muslim country should be made aware before they set off that the ban on face covering exists so if they come then their wife will not be able to wear the Burka.

I don't think the "well they don't allow us to do this or that in their country" argument really works because you know before you go so its your choice. In my limited experience I actually found they were not so strict as I had first thought. I mean covering your arms and legs to enter a mosque is a right thing to do, you wouldn't go in to a Christian church in a bikini, it would be disrespectful.

I am still rather mystified as to how the police and gendarmes nation wide will be able implement this or will they claim they need more staff?

[Marym2]

Top of the class for Clarkson, his joke was the best of the week, While our lads are dying to give some of these countrys a better life the same old whingers are having a go for the comments he made on Sunday. Well bring on his demise if you want, we loved it.

[Quillan]

We had a French couple and a Dutch couple dining in and this subject (Burka Ban) came up. The French couple were very much in favour saying Sarkosi was right at it was damaging to French culture etc and theres millions of them (women wearing Burkas) in France. They came from near Le Bignon and I asked them how many women they had actually seen or met wearing a Burka, the reply was none. Makes you wonder.[:(]

[Marym2]

What make me wonder is how long before this is a daily event? as its becoming in England?????????

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23860807-claim-of-islamic-veil-bus-ban-thrown-out.do

[Gardener]

Marym2  What make me wonder is how long before this is a daily event? as its becoming in England????????? http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23860807-claim-of-islamic-veil-bus-ban-thrown-out.do[/quote]

I wasn't aware it was even close to becoming a daily event.

As for Clarkson well he's just a gobby prat who makes a good living by being controversial. An event as apparently unusual as that happening in London, perhaps the taxi driver will come forward and corroborate his story but I won't hold my breathe.

[Quillan]

False claims of racial discrimination have been and still are rife in the UK. I seem to remember some years back that an Asian chap had gone to something in excess of 40 odd interviews but never got a job. He claimed racial discrimination and many companies just gave him some money to get ride off him. Unfortunately for him some of the companies got together, how I don't remember, and took him to court or rather let him take them to court. The whole thing was thrown out and he was arrested afterwards and found guilty then imprisoned. I am not too sure the exact crime, perhaps claiming money under false pretences or whatever, it was on the TV and in the press at the time.

There are also large groups of organised immigrants of just about every nationality deliberately causing car accidents and claiming injury insurance although many of these are now investigated by independent assessors, a growing business as I understand it. Of course either way (paying or fighting the case) cost's the motorist loads of money in increased premiums across the board. Its surprising what goes on these days.

As for Clarkson, he is what I call a Marmit person, you either love him or hate him. As to his comments about what a woman was wearing underneath her 'costume' well I don't think its that unfair to wonder if its true or not. A lot of men and women wear some strange undergarments (I'm quite conservative, 'Y' fronts and a string vest in case your wondering), some none at all, so what makes you think Muslim women are any different.

[Gardener]

I don't doubt that people wear different types of underwear,it was just remarkaby fortuitous for Clarkson that not only did the poor woman fall sufficiently hard enough for her clothing to rise extremely high, but that she was also sporting stockings and a thong. If the event happened as he described and she was wearing rather ordinary M&S pants, it wouldn't have had the same impact.

[NickP]

Quillan wrote:  A lot of men and women wear some strange undergarments (I'm quite conservative, 'Y' fronts and a string vest in case your wondering),

You sweet old fashioned thing Quillan [:D]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Gardener"]I don't doubt that people wear different types of underwear,it was just remarkably fortuitous for Clarkson that not only did the poor woman fall sufficiently hard enough for her clothing to rise extremely high, but that she was also sporting stockings and a thong. If the event happened as he described and she was wearing rather ordinary M&S pants, it wouldn't have had the same impact.[/quote]

Yes I agree but true life can often be stranger than fiction, you should try running a B&B. [;-)]

[Quillan]

[quote user="NickP"]

Quillan wrote:  A lot of men and women wear some strange undergarments (I'm quite conservative, 'Y' fronts and a string vest in case your wondering),

You sweet old fashioned thing Quillan [:D]

[/quote]

Mrs 'Q' call's it the 'Rab C Nesbitt' look, quite romantic I thought. [Www]

[just john]

I'm just trying to picture Mrs Q in 'Y' fronts and a string vest! . . . different . . .[:)]

[thepenofmyaunt]

[quote user="chessie"]Let them wear their 'black shrouds' in their homes if they feel so strongly.     But they are in the West, where such attire is seen as a rejection of the western way of life - for all the good and bad that goes with it.
[/quote]

According to research done in France, the majority of women who wear the niqab/burkha are French converts to Islam, they are also well-educated, mainly Bac+3