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[quote user="Joe"]Is anyone watching the progragrame ? 
[/quote]

Yes We did Joe, unfortunately one of the most distressing things I have seen for a long time, I felt so much for the parents who must be devastated to have trusted these animals with their children. Although it was awful, I'm  glad the TV company had the guts to show it and I can only hope that the so called carers are punished heavily [:@]

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[quote user="cooperlola"]Journalists come in for a lot of stick one way or another but it's these kinds of investigations which restore my faith in them. [/quote]Journalists like all groups have good members and bad members. Just shows how pointless stereotyping is[:)]
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I still have problems with these 'good' journalists, perhaps.

My question is when did the police get called in? When they filmed, which could have been some time ago OR after it was shown.

IF it was after the program was shown, then they are a disgrace too, leaving vunerable people to daily torture.

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[quote user="idun"]

I still have problems with these 'good' journalists, perhaps.

My question is when did the police get called in? When they filmed, which could have been some time ago OR after it was shown.

IF it was after the program was shown, then they are a disgrace too, leaving vunerable people to daily torture.

[/quote]

 A male nurse who worked there went to the authorities 3 times and nothing happened;  the Panorama team showed the evidence and  the police acted, you need evidence.

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[quote user="NickP"][quote user="idun"]

I still have problems with these 'good' journalists, perhaps.

My question is when did the police get called in? When they filmed, which could have been some time ago OR after it was shown.

IF it was after the program was shown, then they are a disgrace too, leaving vunerable people to daily torture.

[/quote]

 A male nurse who worked there went to the authorities 3 times and nothing happened;  the Panorama team showed the evidence and  the police acted, you need evidence.

[/quote]

Yes, I realised that evidence is needed, I'm not that stupid!  However, it isn't like the rolling news though. The journalists could have had this for some time for editing and preparing their program etc. It is that little delay I am talking about. The day they had photographic proof they should have gone straight to the police. Did they, OR would it have interfered with making a program?

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Why didn't the "Care authorities" act on the say so of the Nurse? So you now want to blame the TV company for a delay over something that had been going on for yonks and the authorities knew about? Some people are never satisfied. I may be alone with this thought? but thank you Panorama I think you have done a wonderful service for these poor unfortunate people.  As for your comment about the TV company going to the police the first day, you know as well as I do, it would have been put down as probably a one off incident. Just be thankful that they and some parents had the courage to show the atrocities that were going on.
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As anybody would have done, I found the footage extremely distressing.

The problem for me however is not the situation highlighted in the film, however banal and unacceptable that it was. It's how widespread that kind of treatment might be.

I believe and very much hope (maybe naively) that the vast majority of vulnerable men and women in institutions like that are given sympathetic and loving care.  My fear is that this isn't an isolated case and that we'll never know how many more have existed.

A civilised society provides a proper infrastructure for those who need it's care and support, at whatever cost. Sadly, a wake-up call like this, demonstrates that it often gets pushed to the back of everybody's agenda.

 

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It seemed that an awful lot of the tormentors in the programme appeared very young.... is there adequate training in place for carers caring for people in these places.

Carer jobs are 10 a penny in my local job adverts.

I would have expected at a cost of £3000+ per week per patient, excellent care and facilities
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I have not seen the programme, watched clips on you.tube nor read much about it - my views are based solely on this thread. Whenever such atrocities are reported my first thought is "where were their families while all this was going on?". The answer "out of sight, out of mind"?

John

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[quote user="Iceni"]

I have not seen the programme, watched clips on you.tube nor read much about it - my views are based solely on this thread. Whenever such atrocities are reported my first thought is "where were their families while all this was going on?". The answer "out of sight, out of mind"?

John

[/quote]

I wouldn't imagine the abuse took place when the parents were visiting, plus  the kids were probably too frightened to complain. The relevant question John is where were you and I and the rest of society while this took place? Nobody, well most of us wouldn't put a person into one of these institutions unless it was absolutely necessary, So as you have obviously never been in that situation I think your question is a little harsh. The people to blame here aren't the parents or the police or the TV company but the owners of the home who charged us yes us, as we pay for it, extortionate amounts of money and then proceed to completely let down the public, the parents and most of all the patients, what for, greed.

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[quote user="NickP"]

The relevant question John is where were you and I and the rest of society while this took place?

[/quote]

Probably being grateful that "they" were dealing with people that we don't really want around us (without admitting it of course) but are not too sure of the correct solution. If someone else appears to be taking care of them we can close our eyes, ears and minds and pretend. Until Panorama et al shake our cosy world.

I don't have an answer. Greater vigilance, more inspectors, more inspections?  Difficult at a time of belt tightening all round. I suppose what it really needs is for us all to care more but we all know that "Apathy rules".

John

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[quote user="woolybanana"]It sounds as if these places are being staffed by low life for cost reasons whereas they should be staffed by the dedicated and caring; a question of money?[/quote]

Spot on, Wooly. But is there such a profession in the UK? In France there are Educateurs/trices Specialises  in centres for the mentally handicapped (I know, not PC but it's the term used in France), the training is long but the profession is at least respected although not brilliantly paid.

 l'objectif de l'éducateur spécialisé reste le même : préserver ou restaurer l'autonomie de ces personnes en les valorisant par le biais d'un accompagnement collectif et / ou individualisé, un étayage relationnel, par la possibilité d'animer des activités socio-éducatives, travail avec les familles... Profession phare du secteur avec les assistants de service social, les éducateurs spécialisés ont pour mission d'aider les jeunes et les adultes en situation de handicap, en difficulté sociale ou dans le cadre de la prévention et de faciliter leur insertion sociale. (Wikipedia)

Caring is a vocation, not just a job.

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Geronimo,

I would like nothing more than to agree with you, but my sister, a nurse for the last 30+ years,had to get involved at a very high level when she witnessed improper behaviour and treatment administered by qualified staff in a particular nursing home where she was employed.

As an example, she has told me of staff tying up a mentally disable patient on the toilet, so he would not soil his clothing and thus save the staff the hassle of bathing and changing him.

After several of her requests and her advice as the senior nurse were ignored, she had to make an offical complaint which was later taken up to ministerial level.

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Clair, I'm sure there are 'derapages' in all countries, France included. It requires a courageous professional to blow the whistle but if these residencies aren't staffed by qualified and trained personnel, then nothing will improve. Caring for the handicapped and the elderly is, as I mentioned, a vocation and not many people have that calling. Taking on 'carers' because they couldn't find any other job is making the problem worse.

 

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It strikes me that the whole ownership and control of these places is wrong. Perhaps one might envisage a John Lewis solution of some sort whereby the employees are part of the set up, ownership is non profit and yet the dead hand of local authorities is kept firmly away. Initial loans to set up places could be advanced on long term cheap rates on the understanding that homes may not be resold except as homes and that any profit would be taxed 100%. If staff have a stake in the place, they might act better?
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It is all a mess isn't it. In the old days lots of these places were run by goody organisations like the church etc and the abuse was rife in many. Were the council places any better, did they have them?

When I was young I used to be a volunteer and worked with mentally handicapped young people and adults. Did it for quite some time. So I do understand all about mental handicap with often some physical handicap too.

I don't actually know who ran the place that many of our 'kids' went to. I do know that there was no signs of abuse and all seemed happy as normal. And we would hear about bad days and people doing naughty things like nicking someone's pudding etc. Truth is that in spite of perhaps having problems speaking, life was life and 'handicapped' people were my friends and had their own lives and loves and losses.

 

So back to this. I don't actually believe that doing the right thing in the end was good. Once the reporters filmed abuse they should have morally have shown it to the police and social services immediately and something should have been done, then. Stuff good tv, these people were vunerable. The police had already had this reported, the Beeb should have had it on the news within a day if the police had done nothing. There is no innocent until proved guilty with this, the innocent were being abused and they were seen to be abused.

Maybe the beeb did as I have said, does anyone know? I would like to know.

EDIT, just read your post Wooly, sounds like a good idea.

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[quote user="idun"]

It is all a mess isn't it. In the old days lots of these places were run by goody organisations like the church etc and the abuse was rife in many. Were the council places any better, did they have them?

When I was young I used to be a volunteer and worked with mentally handicapped young people and adults. Did it for quite some time. So I do understand all about mental handicap with often some physical handicap too.

I don't actually know who ran the place that many of our 'kids' went to. I do know that there was no signs of abuse and all seemed happy as normal. And we would hear about bad days and people doing naughty things like nicking someone's pudding etc. Truth is that in spite of perhaps having problems speaking, life was life and 'handicapped' people were my friends and had their own lives and loves and losses.

 

So back to this. I don't actually believe that doing the right thing in the end was good. Once the reporters filmed abuse they should have morally have shown it to the police and social services immediately and something should have been done, then. Stuff good tv, these people were vunerable. The police had already had this reported, the Beeb should have had it on the news within a day if the police had done nothing. There is no innocent until proved guilty with this, the innocent were being abused and they were seen to be abused.

Maybe the beeb did as I have said, does anyone know? I would like to know.

EDIT, just read your post Wooly, sounds like a good idea.

[/quote]

I think Panorama did the right thing.

If the story had got out "intra muros" a Senior High Court Judge with a penchant for BDSM activities would have closed it down with a "SUPER INJUNCTION".[6]

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