Robbed and vandalised here in Normandie last week!!

[Sara]

 Ok, it was not that bad or serious, but let me tell you the seed is here in France to! Last week my son decided to play with the 'neighbours', it was the first time properly since we moved here. Partly because they are 18 months older and one of the brothers is 12 . Anyway, they played for a couple of hours,

 My husbands car was sitting in the back garden (no back access, without opening gates) , we had not been out in it for about a week due to the poor weather and he had cleaned it during that time to (so we know that the car was perfect). The car is not new (nearly 10 years old) but it looks new ,very shiny and we only bought it last month. Anyway the next day, the weather cheered up so we decided to go to Etretat for a family day out, as soon as I got into the car we saw the biggest crack on our windscreen that we had ever seeen!!! We could not understand how it happened, nothing could have fallen and made that damage. If a stone had fallen there would be a mark on the windscreen from the stone. How did this happen?- After a lot of thinking and investigating the only plausible explanation is that the eldest boy (he is 12) must have had a pen knife on him (or something similar), pushed back the rubber mould of the windscreen then dug his knife under and then pushed up. Net result, crack!! We have a very expensive bill!! Obviously we can not prove this, but we are 99.999% certain. We will not confront the family as we do not want our house burnt down!!

My son has also noticed about 8 of his lego Lord of the Rings figures stolen. You can safely say they will not be coming round here again!!

I know this is not on the same scale as the London scum, but in different circumstances I believe those two would have joined in looting and vandalising in London or where ever.... The working class, chip on their shoulder are everywhere!!!  The good news is that their house is up for sale and will hopefully move soon...

I know I am not painting a very good picture of where I live, but if you were to see where we live, it is trully breathtaking similar to Devon or Dorset. We are surrounded by rolling hills and forests, trully amazing. Because we were interested in architecture and history we bought a beautiful Manor house, ( if you know anything about the Manor's in Normandie  17th Century ,they are not big. They had two large rooms downstairs and just two main rooms upstairs, but they are full of character. with beams and an old large fire place). The reason I have mentioned this is that I feel because we have this beautiful house it has caused a few problems with certain people.

[KathyF]

Sorry you've had problems, Sara, but no, France isn't immune from anti-social behaviour.  We have friends with a holiday home near a lake here in southern Manche and they've had several break-ins overv the past 3 years.  They told us that over 20 holiday homes and fishing cabins around the lake had been targeted this spring alone and this in deepest rural France.  There are disaffected youngsters (and older people) everywhere.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Sara"] My husbands car was sitting in the back garden (no back access, without opening gates) , we had not been out in it for about a week due to the poor weather and he had cleaned it during that time to (so we know that the car was perfect). The car is not new (nearly 10 years old) but it looks new ,very shiny and we only bought it last month. Anyway the next day, the weather cheered up so we decided to go to Etretat for a family day out, as soon as I got into the car we saw the biggest crack on our windscreen that we had ever seeen!!! We could not understand how it happened, nothing could have fallen and made that damage. If a stone had fallen there would be a mark on the windscreen from the stone. How did this happen?- After a lot of thinking and investigating the only plausible explanation is that the eldest boy (he is 12) must have had a pen knife on him (or something similar), pushed back the rubber mould of the windscreen then dug his knife under and then pushed up. Net result, crack!! We have a very expensive bill!! Obviously we can not prove this, but we are 99.999% certain. We will not confront the family as we do not want our house burnt down!![/quote]

Is there actually evidence of damage at the edge of the screen to suggest that this is what has happened? It is quite possible for temperature changes alone to cause a screen that may have been compromised (eg by being previously been hit with a stone - even if no mark was previously visible) to crack without warning.

Regards

Pickles

[Sara]

No there is no evidence of a stone mark , the weather was not hot or cold. However, what I would say that about 6 months ago I noticed an exact crack on their fathers wind screen. I had actually pointed this out to my husband. It seems very coincidental, it is like someone had done this to them and the father had explained how it had happened and voila we have the same crack now. As I explained earlier this is not a normal crack, this is a crack that is at least 7 inches long!!! The crack starts right on the edge of the windscreen, any other ideas?

[Sara]

Sorry , I read your earlier post incorrectly. I have had too many gin and tonic's!!! I thought you were talking about the main wind screen... Actually my husband had noticed a very small scratch on the inside of the wind screen on the edge and that is why we are so confident that it was malicious damage.

[Frederick]

 

Seems this is quite a common occurance    Even overnight big cracks

http://www.vxronline.co.uk/forum/archive/index.php/t-36409.html

[Sara]

Hi Frederick, no this is different to what your information (website) is saying, this is nearly a 10 year old windscreen not a new one . This is not due to freezing conditions or extreme heat. Also we noticed this before we started the engine and also we definately did not have our heaters on. I am confident this was due to vandalism, as I mentioned earlier, there is also a small mark on the underside of the glass on the edge, which I am guessing is due to either a pen knife or a sharp object.. Should we call the police ?, probably best not to..What would you do?

[Frederick]

Hi Sara

I think I might just tell the insurance company the crack has appeared and let them advise where to have it replaced under your cover ..

The French have very long memories a call to the Police and it will be round the area like wildfire You will be the main topic of conversation for weeks .

[Chancer]

I think that your crack has propogated as many do from a scratch or damage to the edge, something that you have stated that you have seen on the inside, your neighbours child would have to be very clever and inventive to have caused this, at 10 years old your vehicle will have a bonded windscreen, no rubber to lift up with a penknife although there may well be a secondary cosmetic rubber seal on the outside.

The PU sealant used, Sikaflex, is pretty much impossible to cut through, I have tried to remove screens and have always broken them, if he did manage to pierce it with his penknife he would then need a tool bent through 90 degrees with a carbide or diamond tip to scratch the inside of your windscreen.

Bonded screens form part of the vehicle structure, they are subjected to torsional stresses as well as thermal ones, when they break other than from a stonechip impact it is always from the edge inwards, the crack propogating from a stress raiser like the scratch that you noticed.

I wont win any popularity contests by saying it but I think that you are letting your imagination cloud your judgement, I would hate you to have neighbour problems due to what is most likely a false accusation.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="KathyF"]There are disaffected youngsters (and older people) everywhere.[/quote]

I'd rather say there are crooks and vandals everywhere. I'm not sure rebellion and / or resentment is always a factor.

[Théière]

I am with Chancer, screens do crack on their own, glass does age and become brittle and cured PU or bonded screens are very difficult to remove (cheese wire works best). There would be very obvious chipping at the edge of the screen where bits flaked off whilst leverage was applied, if that is present then you may have a point without it I wouldn't go with a 10 year old without proof.

 

[EuroTrash]

Two points - firstly, of course there are thieves and vandals in Normandy, always have been and always will be, you haven't exactly discovered a new phenomenon there. It would be naive to believe otherwise. The difference is, there aren't that many here compared to some other places. I have had stuff nicked out of my garage in Normandy over the years, and the first time it happened, yes it saddened me. But that kind of thing doesn't happen to me nearly as much as it used to in West Yorkshire.

Secondly, from an objective point of view, your explanation for the crack in the windscreen sounds highly implausible. Why on earth would a child go to the trouble of trying to stick a penknife under your windscreen? Are you saying he knew it would crack? If he wanted to damage your car there are many ways of doing it that are far easier, far more likely to achieve the desired result, and far more satisfying - like taking his penknife to the paintwork. If he wanted to break into the car, he wouldn't do it through the windscreen! I just don't see a kid doing that. You say you have only just bought the car, are you sure it hadn't had a new screen fitted, maybe for the CT? If so it may simply not have been fitted correctly. Often when I've bought a car not knowing its history, it's thrown up a few surprises in the first few months.

I'm glad you have such a beautiful house and I do hope you're not going to let your life in France be spoit by getting stressed out about neighbours, unrealistic expectations etc. Don't go inventing conspiracy theories just because life isn't perfect. I've found that French people judge you as they find you. If they see you as nice friendly people, they will be glad you've come to live there. If for whatever reason they see you as being stand-offish, they won't want anything to do with you whether you have more than them or less than them. Why would the neighbours be jealous - that house has always been there, it's part of the scenery to them, they can't or don't want to live there or they would have bought it when it was up for sale, so why get upset because somebody else does? 99 times out of 100 French families are busy getting on with their lives - family, work, school etc. There is no 'keeping up with the Jones' culture here that I've ever become aware of, and neighbours, whether English or not, are neither here nor there to most French families. They greet you politely and unless you happen to hit it off for some reason, that's as far as it goes.

[Sara]

I hear what your saying, but it is too coincidental that the crack is exactly the same as the one his dad got 6 months ago. I repeat this is not a normal crack, this is a crack that has been made from pressure, a crack that just appeared from nothing to 7 inches. The rubber (infact it is plastic not rubber) on my wind screen is not moulded, that is how I could bend it back and see another scratch that was made with something sharp under the rubber. It is as if he tried and that point and then moved his knife (or whatever) and applied again. The older boy is about 12, I could go on and describe him but I won't, let me say he does not look gentil . No , I have not let my imagination go wild, the facts are there ! Nothing like this has ever happened to us before, they come into the garden for 2 hours or less and that happened and my sons Lego figures disappear. I know we have no proof  but it is all too coincidental...... There is such a thing as the law of probabilty and circumstance.

 Sometimes you have to face facts, France is changing. We have noticed it go down hill since Sarcozy has beenw in power. I agree with some of Normans comments on the riots of  London, England started to change for the worst since Thatcher.   Like England the people in France are becoming obsessed by MATERIALISM and if they can't have it they get jealous  and we suffer with the consequences. The head lines in my local L'Eveil newspaper was 10 ways to protect your house at night or when you go out ,against burgary!!! When we first came over (before Sarcozy) the news was all about village fetes and making jam..... The increase in burglaries has rocketed around here despite plenty of work ( also a lot of people not working I might add) and our town having 4 rossetes for prettiness.

[Sara]

Just seen your post Eurotrash, no we are not stand offish people. We are people who have manners, polite and always smile It is the way we were  brought up and the way my son is. He has a lovely demeanour unlike the french kids round here! Just because you see children kiss strangers does not make them gentil, it just habit. I have seen on many occassion people kiss and don't even say one word to each other and walk on  by sometimes with disgust on their faces, quite funny to see actually.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Sara"]The older boy is about 12, I could go on and describe

him but I won't, let me say he does not look gentil .  <snip>

Like England the people in France are becoming obsessed by MATERIALISM and

if they can't have it they get jealous  and we suffer with the

consequences. The head lines in my local L'Eveil newspaper was 10 ways

to protect your house at night or when you go out ,against burgary!!!

When we first came over (before Sarcozy) the news was all about village

fetes and making jam..... The increase in burglaries has rocketed around

here despite plenty of work ( also a lot of people not working I might

add) and our town having 4 rossetes for prettiness.[/quote]

[blink]

Oookaaay... backing away, now...

[Chancer]

[quote user="Sara"]

 Obviously we can not prove this, but we are 99.999% certain. We will not confront the family as we do not want our house burnt down!!

My son has also noticed about 8 of his lego Lord of the Rings figures stolen. You can safely say they will not be coming round here again!!

I know this is not on the same scale as the London scum, but in different circumstances I believe those two would have joined in looting and vandalising in London or where ever.... The working class, chip on their shoulder are everywhere!!!  The good news is that their house is up for sale and will hopefully move soon...

The reason I have mentioned this is that I feel because we have this beautiful house it has caused a few problems with certain people.

[/quote]

My selective editting.

Is your husband of the same view as you?

[andyh4]

[quote user="Sara"]

 Sometimes you have to face facts, [/quote]

 

Indeed you do Sara, and as others have said the crack is far more likely to have occurred withoout any intervention of the boy than with it.

 

I myself have had just such a crack in a windscreen (actually twice now I come to think of it).

 

In the latest case I had had a small chip in the windscreen for months - almost not noticable - and I had had nothing done about it.  Then one morning and just like the Carglass adverts . big crack across the screen.  It is just that it was no where near the chip.

 

Glass is in fact a liquid and is in a very unstable state and is easily shocked - mechanical, thermal, and even just pressure at a single point  - into breaking.

 

Of course I doubt you will take any notice because you clearly have a downer on the boy - which may well be for good reason - but the windscreen in itself is no reason at all.  Your supposed "proof" - a scratch hidden under the beading might well be the cause, but there is no link to the boy excpet your imagination that because anoth screen cracked like yours it must be him.  If it is that easy, I challenge you to break 2 identical wine bottles so that they have identical breaks.  Glass just does not behave like that - neither bottle nor windscreen.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Sara"]

. I repeat this is not a normal crack, this is a crack that has been made from pressure, a crack that just appeared from nothing to 7 inches. [/quote]

we saw the biggest crack on our windscreen that we had ever seeen!!!

[Val_2]

My Picasso did just that some six or seven years ago, driving along and all of a sudden a crack from one side to the other and those windscreens are huge. I doubt a kid would have had that strength unless he is 6ft tall and bending down over the windscreen. You should be covered for a free replacement if you have a good policy and it won't affect your next payment so claim off the insurance and let it lie,you maybe opening a very large and nasty can of worms by blaming the neighbours without concrete proof and remember.......most folks are locally related with many other families so you take them on to.

[Sara]

I agree the best course of action is to let it lie. In terms of the probable cause of the damage I believe there is a distinct possibility that it was vandalised. As I say the vehicle was not being driven at the time..

My husband has a friend in the car trade back in England who has seen this type of thing before. He also suspects vandalism in this case. If one inserts a screwdriver under the glass at the edge of a windscreen it will, with little effort, crack in this manner.

Of course this will never be proved one way or the other. Thanks for everyone's feedback on this however. The theft aspect I think is much clearer however.

Sara

[EuroTrash]

<>

Well it's not exactly crystal clear is it? Does he not know exactly how many he had/has? And personally, when it comes to small items that I keep in the house, I don't tend to immediately something 'stolen'. I notice first, that it's not where I expected it to be, second, that I can't find it, and third, that it appears to have gone missing altogether. I then begin to wonder whether it could have been stolen - but it usually takes me more than a week to come to that conclusion, and I still keep my mind open to other possibilities, like that it got misplaced.

You may of course be right but I have to say that the way your posts come across, they suggest a distinct lack of goodwill and an of over-eagerness to believe the worst of these nasty working-class French with chips on their shoulders, getting more materialistic by the day.

Sorry if this sounds unkind, but it is as well to be aware of the impression you may be giving to outsiders - whether you choose to take any notice of it or not.

Just a simple question: supposing that the Lego figures were to turn up, would you be pleased to have found them and relieved to learn that your neighbour's lad is not a thief after all, or would you feel that you'd had the wind taken out of your sails?

[Sara]

I do not really understand the point you are trying to make here Andy.

Of course glass is a liquid. Of course it can behave unpredictably when placed under mechanical or vibrational stress. Of course extremes of temparature will also test the resilience of glass. This is common & widespread knowledge for most people & for those with a particular interest in glass..

The point, in our case however, was that there was no previous damage to the windscreen. No chips or marks on the surface of the glass whatsoever. It was also a very temperate & stable day in terms of weather conditions.

On the afternoon in question my son was playing hide & seek in the garden for about 30 minutes. Therefore, when hiding, he would not have been able to observe what the two boys were up to. My husband was working in the back garden, separated by from the garage area by a high wall. So I suppose one might say the opportunity was there. The possibility of such an opportunity shall we say?

So, we have a combination of circumstances do we not?

Certain of Jacque's toys mysteriously have gone "walkies". A very large & unexplained crack appeared on my husband's unsurveyed car on the same occasion. A plausible explanation exists for the method of causation for the damage in question.

Can these two events be completely & utterly unrelated? Under the circumstances.

Of course they might be. However, I think it is reasonable to conjecture that the two events might in some way be related. The law of probabilities & conincidence & all that.

That is all I am saying. Not a wholly unreasonable explanation, or at least a possible explanation, to put forward under the circumstances. Surely?

I wonder if such a thought might cross your own mind under the same, or very similar circumstances?

As for cracking or breaking bottles in a uniform manner is concerned. All I can say is that whilst I always welcome the opportunity of such scientific challenges I too suspect that uniform cracks in glass bottles might be a little difficult to replicate.

However always up for a challenge Andy if you are passing..

Sara

[Will]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]...there are thieves and vandals in Normandy, always have been and always will be, you haven't exactly discovered a new phenomenon there. It would be naive to believe otherwise. The difference is, there aren't that many here compared to some other places. I have had stuff nicked out of my garage in Normandy over the years, and the first time it happened, yes it saddened me. But that kind of thing doesn't happen to me nearly as much as it used to in West Yorkshire.

...Don't go inventing conspiracy theories just because life isn't perfect.... Why would the neighbours be jealous - that house has always been there, it's part of the scenery...

[/quote]

I totally agree with most of that, but with a couple of exceptions. I have seen far more instances of break-ins and burglary in Normandy than I have in any part of rural or urban England where I have lived or worked; maybe I have been fortunate not to have been very near the places where the current troubles can be found.

I wouldn't say the neighbours are necessarily jealous, but there has been evidence in some parts of France of the locals becoming resentful of incomers (whether from England, Germany, the Netherlands or even Paris) taking over the 'better' houses. That's particularly apparent in poor areas. I can't say we have directly experienced anything significant along those lines, but then it was well-knows that we both were working for our living, and I can understand a bit of bad feeling towards those who are, as the French put it 'inactif' but have all the trappings of an expensive lifestyle, particularly when they plead poverty as do so many of the English in Normandy (and probably other parts of France).

Sara - if you are convinced that this damage was perpetrated by the neighbours' children then you  are unlikely to be swayed by any arguments put forward in an internet discussion. But there may not be anything to base 'conspiracy theories' upon - kids are like that, just about everywhere, and always have been. I am sure that I had toys that went walkabout in rural England 50 years ago...

[Sara]

It is actually two weeks since the 'incident'. My son is exceptionally tidy, and keeps his lego all together in his bedroom. He plays with this regularly and has made a thorough search and count up...

Regarding the french, I am just saying it is changing, they are not as friendly as they used to be and are definately more materialistic. I believe it is changing like in England in the 80's under Thatcher . Things were never the same again

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Sara"]Things were never the same again[/quote]

Sure they weren't.

Arthur "retired" and Britain got back to work and, largely, stayed there.

A jumped up dictator also found out to his cost that Britain looks after it's own.