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Why don't French loos have handbasins?


CherryB
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Are we going even further with this thread?

Well why not.

 

I have friends who have their stock of toilet rolls and clean towels in bespoke open shelves, adjacent to the toilet, and quite close the toilet. Looks very smart.

 

HOWEVER, I know having three men in the house, that men's pee sprays outwards. It doesn't all go where it should. So all these expensive towels and coloured toilet rolls will be getting sprayed with pee every time a man goes to the toilet AND then getting the 'other' spray, when the toilet is flushed without the lid down. So I go there, and wash my hands and then dry them on a towel that is probably more contaminated than the toilet seat.

That we are not ill all the time is good and maybe a bit of a miracle!

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What piddles me off is that most of our visitors english and french do not take their shoes off. They go upstairs to the loo (the only one we have) which is in the bathroom which leaves me cringeing. They don't take their shoes off in their own homes and if I step out of mine when visiting I get a load of verbal so am terrified of asking them to remove theirs when they visit - whimp that I am!
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[quote user="nomoss"]Our forefathers would probably consider the present day placing of the stool in the place where one washed, and indoors, quite disgusting.

The oldest house I ever lived in had a privy at the bottom of the garden, as far as possible from the house.

[/quote]

This interesting thread, and Nomoss's post in particular, has reminded me how fascinating and diverse the experience of going to the lavatory used to be, and how relatively dull and pedestrian the process has now become in this sanitized and hypochonriac age. 

The lavatories of the Great Aunts Of My Childhood presented a rich diversity.  One of the nicest ones was Aunt Mollie's where the facility was placed directly over the tide (in outbuildings adjoining the house, and not in the house itself), with a little window through which one could throw bread for the swans. 

Aunt Violet's remote C17th farmhouse in East Devon was equipped with a splendid double seater, which was in fact indoors.  I do recall using it à deux on one occasion (with my mother) in order to save candles in a household which was far from electricity. 

The most frightening one  -  from a five-year-old perspective  -  was at a relative's cornmill on the Dart, where it was perched precariously on a slab of stone right over the wheel-pit.  There was no 's-bend', so one stared straight down the hole in the bottom of the pan into a deep pit filled with noise, water, and a large and flailing piece of machinery.

There several instances where in roomy, not to say barrack-like houses  -  and I think particularly of a brewery in a village outside Dorchester  -  a whole largish room had been given over to this novel facility, and one reigned gloriously from a throne raised up on a plinth in the midst of its spacious setting.

Aunt Tilly's, in a farmhouse not well served with water, was at the bottom end of a considerable garden, where it usefully straddled and took advantage of a little stream.  The disused but contemporary butter-well (where dairy produce had been kept cool) was just downstream.

None of these had wash-hand basins, and indeed several of them did not have running water at all.  We didn't however die of this  -  or only rarely.  But to make up for this inadequacy the lavatories themselves always bore interesting and entertaining names, often reminiscent of battleships.  I remember The Invincible, The Dreadnought, The Excelsior and, appropriately, The Thunderer.  Our own was called, rather bafflingly Nisi Prius  -  an allusion which entirely escapes me.

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[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Théière"]Really, so it's ok to touch the raw sewage/effluent out flows and then the door handles light switches etc before finally applying sanitation some distance away?

How far does "the spray" actually go with the lid down, that's why they have lids isn't it?

[/quote]
You have either misunderstood what nomoss wrote or are being provocative for whatever reason.
Nomoss suggested a WC and a basin was preferable to a WC in a bathroom. There was no mention of a WC on its own, in a separate room from hand-washing facilities.

[/quote]

Misunderstood what Nomoss wrote:

[quote user="nomoss"]

I think a separate room with a hand basin is far better than having "it" in the bathroom, for a variety of reasons.

[/quote]

Sorry Nomoss, yes you will have to think harder before posting as your sentence clearly says "I think a separate room with a hand basin is far better than having "it" in the bathroom, for a variety of reasons".

And not as you cleared up later in your post what you really meant, that you believe a separate toilet with a hand basin is far better than having "it" in the bathroom for a variety of reasons. Now don't get me started on your ambiguous use of "it" I have always preferred "it" in the bedroom rather than the bathroom anyway [:)]

 

 

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[quote user="idun"]HOWEVER, I know having three men in the house, that men's pee sprays outwards. It doesn't all go where it should.[/quote]Not a routine topic of conversation you understand but for my own part (no pun intended and stop giggling at the back) I habitually sit when taking a pee and I know for fact that certain of my friends of a similar or greater age do likewise so be careful about generalising [;-)]

A fascinating discussion however the fact is that each and every one of us live in a dirty disgusting world of mostly unseen and unknown bacteria and other nasties yet how many of us actually come to any harm or succumb to illness directly attributable to them, precious few I would suggest, in fact to the contrary, contact with them builds immunity.

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If not 'all' people with poor hygiene are ill, then a lot are.

I'll stick with decent hygiene, not obsessed about cleaning and scrubbing everything all the time, just the basics of it.

 

We had pots under the bed at my grandmother's house, and candles as the three electric lights and couple of sockets stopped down stairs. The toilet was down the yard with cut up newspaper in it, which I prefered to izal, beurk!

I'm glad we have baths and showers and inside toilets and sinks. I like my modern comforts.

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[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="idun"]HOWEVER, I know having three men in the house, that men's pee sprays outwards. It doesn't all go where it should.[/quote]Not a routine topic of conversation you understand but for my own part (no pun intended and stop giggling at the back) I habitually sit when taking a pee and I know for fact that certain of my friends of a similar or greater age do likewise so be careful about generalising [;-)]

A fascinating discussion however the fact is that each and every one of us live in a dirty disgusting world of mostly unseen and unknown bacteria and other nasties yet how many of us actually come to any harm or succumb to illness directly attributable to them, precious few I would suggest, in fact to the contrary, contact with them builds immunity.

[/quote]

 

We have had this discussion in the pub and once one gentle man of a certain age admitted to sitting, many more friends said that they did too.

Something to do with comfort and things taking rather longer than they used to, if I remember the conversation correctly.

 

Doubt my sons would 'sit' though.

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Enough already......what with all the lurid descriptions, especially Gengulphus', I now have bogphobia to add to all my other phobias!

One more thing that I now have to be careful about; need to try and avoid asking to use the loo!

How complicated life gets and I wish to goodness that idleness on a Sunday morning hasn't led me to read and contribute to this thread.

Best now to go off and disinfect all parts, moving and otherwise, of the loos and put up a notice to request that the lid be firmly shut before flushing [I] 

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Poor Sweets, it isn't as if you can avoid using the things, and there have been times in my life where I have been thankful to find one in that has been in a disgusting state. My fussyness diminishes when I get desparate, but soon comes back when I am not.

And those turkish toilets, I do get sick of people telling me that they are cleaner as you're not touching anything, with my gammy knees, if I fell, I would be touching 'everything'!!!![+o(]

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[quote user="sweet 17"]Enough already......what with all the lurid descriptions, especially Gengulphus's, I now have bogphobia to add to all my other phobias!

[/quote]

Lurid !   Oh dear, it was meant rather to be idyllic.  Even Uncle Charles's, perched alarmingly over the water wheel, had a certain picturesque enchantment.

One further advantage of the outdoor privy, as a friend of mine (and indeed of yours too S17) pointed out the other day, is that gives the practitioner an important opportunity to commune with and embrace the natural world and its meteorological aspect. 

The pleasing melancholy of the first scent of autumn, for example, can much more readily be detected on an early morning trip to the privy, than it generally can nowadays in a world of indoor loos, high-bake central heating and wall-to-wall shagpile.

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On outside toilets I'm reminded of a tale where an unmodernised terraced house was for sale still with the privvy at the end of the garden.

The prospective purchaser asked if there was a lock on the door to which the elderly seller replied;

"no, but I've lived here for 50 years and nobody's stolen a bucket of sh1t yet"

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[quote user="Gengulphus"] 

The pleasing melancholy of the first scent of autumn, for example, can much more readily be detected on an early morning trip to the privy, than it generally can nowadays in a world of indoor loos, high-bake central heating and wall-to-wall shagpile.


[/quote]

OK then, specially for your impending visit, I shall dig a hole at the bottom of the garden, past the laurel hedge but nicely close to the "ledge" where the ground falls away some 15 feet or so with nothing but nettles and other stinging bushes at the bottom of the ditch.

How can I deny you excitement or variety if that is indeed what you crave?

If you do topple over, I promise that you will get a whiff of something rather more than autumn.

And whilst we're at it and just so that you can indulge in all the lyrical nostalgia that you long for, let's call it "Endeavour", shall we?

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Gengulphus"] 

The pleasing melancholy of the first scent of autumn, for example, can much more readily be detected on an early morning trip to the privy, than it generally can nowadays in a world of indoor loos, high-bake central heating and wall-to-wall shagpile.

[/quote]

OK then, specially for your impending visit, I shall dig a hole at the bottom of the garden, past the laurel hedge but nicely close to the "ledge" where the ground falls away some 15 feet or so with nothing but nettles and other stinging bushes at the bottom of the ditch.[/quote]

I am afraid that I am way ahead of you on all this. 

Every now and again

we are invited (at least in this part of France) to participate in the

Special Free Offer to see if we have 'polyps'.   This involves a little

rigmarole of sending off samples over a number of days.  Being

essentially very unimaginative I cannot think of a sensible way of

executing this operation tidily and conveniently in the domestic

context, so I pop up to the orchard at or before the crack of dawn for

four consecutive frosty spring mornings. 

Apart from the ram

occasionally being annoying, it is an altogether pleasing experience and

a nice little two mile walk towards the daily tally.

How to Sh1t in the Woods :   An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art  by Kathleen Meyer  is an invaluable source of inspiration.

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OK, while we're on the subject...Can anyone impart any useful hints and tips (for wimmin) on how to use a "hole in the ground" toilet whilst wearing trousers and/or sandals? And the correct facial expression and line of sight to adopt when running the gauntlet in establishments which (in)conveniently place the ladies and gents loos in the same room (usually involving trying to walk nonchalantly past a man using the urinal on the way to the cubicle)? Both seem to be a very French phenomenon.

I have far more problems with the former than the latter (Although, having typed that, I'm not sure what you'll make of the statement), but would welcome others' help.

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CMB I do not believe that there is any way anyone can use this sort of toilet without disrobing completely. And then there would be no where to hang said vetements up once taken off. Other than in one's teeth, which for all I know of one young woman who did this, I don't think I would like to, specially not me pants.

I suppose with no knickers and wearing a big dress one could pull the dress up the back and over one's head and this may or may not work. If possible I use the disabled toilets instead.

 

I have seen the same set up with the toilets in Belgium too where we have had to walk past the urinals to a stall. Thought I'd seen the same set up in the UK once, but my fault walking into the gents by mistake, no-man was using the urinals at the time!

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But surely you need to take off only ONE leg of the trousers and pants, and then bunch up the rest up the other leg? And using one's teeth, yes I can see that. Or tucking any dangling trouser leg into one's bra? Whichever way it goes, it is pretty complicated.

As for walking past men in action in the urinals, I take personal pride in being able to do that in the most nonchalant way possible, whistling casually as I squeeze past.

But (this may sound a tad radical) I also believe in going into men's toilets when there is too long a queue for the women's ones. Who are these people who design both toilets,  they never take into account that all the children ALSO go into women's toilets, and therefore there should be far more women's toilets than male ones.

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Ah, idun, you give me hope! I, too (along with, as far as I can tell, a majority of the other female users of the aires along the autoroute) am a frequent disabled loo user, for just the reasons you describe. I've tried all manner of physical contortions, along with much rolling-up-of-trousers-to-the-knee, and swinging from the provided handrails like an olympic gymnast, but as a rule, finding somewhere to wash one's hands after the event (and it's always an "event") has always struck me as the least of the associated problems. Whoever invented those damned things was clearly a sadist...

ETA: 5-E, I shall try the nonchalant whistle advice. Maybe I shall begin whistling a little before I arrive, in the hope that it will serve to announce my impending presence.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]So, how do you go past a guy tiddling into a hedge to get into the field, whilst holding your drawers between you teeth?[/quote]

And whistling, wooly. Don't forget the whistling!

Idun, I am only any good at whistling the whistling bit from "Dock of the Bay", so that might have to do. Or "Colonel Bogey". I shall avoid whistling the Marseillaise as I believe there are consequences.

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