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What is going on in London?


Joe
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Whilst Pads worries about the dogs and no shoes, I worry for the horses.

When I saw the mounted police riding  into a crowd of thugs throwing about molotov cocktails, broken bottles, sharp objects etc ..., I felt sad for the poor horses. Their faces were protected but their neck and hind quarters weren't.

Now with kevlar or other such modern fabric surely someone would have thought to design/provide some kind of cape for the horses. They did have some kind of armour once upon a time if you look at medieval pictures/paintings. Why can't it be done in modern times....

 

PS : I don't subscribe to the RSPCA, RSPB, SPA etc ... Being a farmer's wife, I have seen some do-gooders of the animal kingdom do more damage than is warranted to protect animals... and I haven't read the link.

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[quote user="audio"]

Even some catch dogs for wild boar hunting are supplied with Kevlar chest and neck armour. So why not police animals?

[/quote]

Problems with Heat Exhaustion.

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

The best protection for the dogs and horses would be to avoid exposing them to this. The CRS don't use them in riots, at least I've never seen any. They don't need them!

[/quote]

They don't need them CA because they have baton rounds, tear gas, snatch squads, together with liberal use of the baton and general ass kicking.

The UK is proud of its pussy-foot approach so not to offend the left wing and do anything which could be construed as being in breach of an offenders "Human Rights." 

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I have always detested the CRS, but at least they don't expose animals.  If the UK is proud of that, it's very sad.  All those police dogs came back injured and what for, what were they able to do to help? 

As for the soft approach, there was a film of police in Manchester who stopped a group on bicycles, pulled one off and hit and kicked him.  They were not burning or looting at the time, just on their bikes coming down a road.

 

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Other police forces can do it

http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t90011.html

Its all about money and lack of care towards the animals here I think.

I have also seen the hunting dogs wear protective coats in France when hunting wild boar , where its a lot hotter than London
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[quote user="Christine Animal"]

All those police dogs came back injured and what for, what were they able to do to help? 

[/quote]

5 dogs were injured actually!

Not forgetting the small matter of over 100 police injured, and the deaths of 6 people!

I find this topic absurd, I don't see any reference being made to the 'cruelty' in using search dogs to comb earthquake devastated areas - or perhaps someone goes in first to clear the dangerous things like broken glass, or anyone decrying the use of explosive dogs in hostile environments, or the use of cadaver dogs.

Globally, there is a long history of animals being used in warfare and in civilian unrest situations. So the simple fact that we use dogs in such situations means we are uncaring does it?

I would much rather have a dog that works for a living be it something as trivial as killing rats, than one that is bored out of it's skull being kept as some kind of house decoration.

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To be realistic - this was an unusual situation for Uk police and they didn't always cover themselves in glory, there are lessons to be learnt and obviously not least by the dog handling section of the force. It 'may' not be so much to do with money - more lack of thought....and a lack of comprehension about the situation, what does my tag line say  ?

On the other hand we could really blame those responsible for throwing bricks, breaking glass etc......

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Sam you are banging your head against a brick wall mate. If the police dogs were protecting peoples parents or children nobody would say "oh you can't use that dog he hasn't got his protective boots on" Lets get real here, police dogs and horses are not pets they are working animals.
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[quote user="Salty Sam"][quote user="Christine Animal"]

All those police dogs came back injured and what for, what were they able to do to help? 

[/quote]

5 dogs were injured actually!

Not forgetting the small matter of over 100 police injured, and the deaths of 6 people!

I find this topic absurd, I don't see any reference being made to the 'cruelty' in using search dogs to comb earthquake devastated areas - or perhaps someone goes in first to clear the dangerous things like broken glass, or anyone decrying the use of explosive dogs in hostile environments, or the use of cadaver dogs.

Globally, there is a long history of animals being used in warfare and in civilian unrest situations. So the simple fact that we use dogs in such situations means we are uncaring does it?

I would much rather have a dog that works for a living be it something as trivial as killing rats, than one that is bored out of it's skull being kept as some kind of house decoration.

[/quote]

Sorry to contradict you Salty Sam, but this is what was said in the article:

"PC Wells said he was shocked at the violence that flared, which left all of the eight dogs in his unit on Tottenham High Road with cut pads on their paws from the broken glass and debris on the street. Some suffered severe cuts and broken teeth."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026107/UK-riots-2011-Police-dog-suffered-horrific-injuries-looting-thug-threw-brick.html#ixzz1VHfVbLPU

Of course dogs work for a living and do a jolly good job, rescuing, drug detecting, cancer detecting, dogs for the blind, no end of ways they help man.  But here you haven't answered my question.  What did they do and could they do to help in this situation?  With typical hypocrisy, the injured dog in the article is treated as a hero.  He was not a hero, but a victim who on top of it had to carry on for two hours more.

I saw a programme (wish I could find it) where search dogs were equipped with boots to protect their paws in an earthquake area. You are comparing what is not comparable.  Search dogs are not pelted with bricks and other objects.

Another question, what is meant by the "use of cadaver dogs".

Because we are at present on the subject of the dogs does not mean we forget those injured and killed.  Perhaps if those yobs in Birmingham had had a few CRS to deal with they wouldn't have been so sure of themselves to drive a car into a group of innocent people.

 

Pads, I don't know if the coats you refer to in wild boar hunting are protection or the orange ones so they can be seen easily and not mistaken for a boar.

 

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[quote user="NickP"]Sam you are banging your head against a brick wall mate. If the police dogs were protecting peoples parents or children nobody would say "oh you can't use that dog he hasn't got his protective boots on" Lets get real here, police dogs and horses are not pets they are working animals.[/quote]

Oh well that's all right then if they are working animals.  Such daft remarks make me come off my hinges (French expression  [:)] ).

 

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Chris talking to my neighbour who has hunting dogs , his wear a thick material a bit like old tarpaulin , he says its more because of the very thick brambles the dogs run through which can be like barbed wire in our forrest ,also the bristles on a boar can be sharp but they do also have orange sides so they dont get shot .

I think if an animal is to work in any service at all it should be provided with the same care as the humans, if some services can provide footwear and protective coats then they all should .....if not it can only be because of money or lack of care ...
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[quote user="Pads"]Chris talking to my neighbour who has hunting dogs , his wear a thick material a bit like old tarpaulin , he says its more because of the very thick brambles the dogs run through which can be like barbed wire in our forrest ,also the bristles on a boar can be sharp but they do also have orange sides so they dont get shot . I think if an animal is to work in any service at all it should be provided with the same care as the humans, if some services can provide footwear and protective coats then they all should .....if not it can only be because of money or lack of care ...[/quote]

Try telling a dog handler or police horseman that their animals don't get the same care as humans and I think you will get told differently

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[quote user="Pads"]How many police men did you see out there with no shoes on ? Basic care is what im talking about.[/quote]

 

How many police dogs do you see using a mobile toilet and queueing up at the mobile canteen for their food. Come on Pads your letting your emotions take over from your common sense.

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Nick, I hear what you say about emotions and commonsense and you know that I don't believe that you are callous or cruel.  But, you know, because we are "human", doesn't mean that we always make sense!

We are not logical beings, we do have emotions and OK sometimes they might seem excessive but I have a lot of sympathy with Pads.  It was I who first posted about the dog that was injured and I did so in a state of shock and profound depression.

The fact that we are "in charge" of "dumb" animals means that we are the ones with the moral responsibility to see that we do not misuse them.

They only follow our orders and are in no position to refuse our orders or take charge of their own lives.  We use them for good or ill and I think our very humanity depends on our wisdom not to mistreat these trusting creature and at least look after them as well as we would ourselves.

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Im not emotional about it at all I , I just think its the basic right of an animal for the owner to take all the care they can of their animal , its what I do for my animals, If I was walking where there was glass on the roads all the time I would fit my dog with some protection, or if it was a one off piece of glass I would pick it up or walk the other way ....Not because Im over emotional about my animals but because I treat them as I would treat my self with respect.

Your forgetting the police choose their career the dogs dont have that choice

I use to live with a police man .... empty pop bottles are not only for recycling !! if you get my meaning and lunch boxes can have sarnies in them....
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[quote user="Pads"]Im not emotional about it at all I , I just think its the basic right of an animal for the owner to take all the care they can of their animal , its what I do for my animals, If I was walking where there was glass on the roads all the time I would fit my dog with some protection, or if it was a one off piece of glass I would pick it up or walk the other way ....Not because Im over emotional about my animals but because I treat them as I would treat my self with respect. Your forgetting the police choose their career the dogs dont have that choice I use to live with a police man .... empty pop bottles are not only for recycling !! if you get my meaning and lunch boxes can have sarnies in them....[/quote]

OK you win as you are determined to have the last word. [:D]

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And to have the lastest word, unless Salty Sam comes back   [:D]   it's easy to criticise when we weren't there in the heat of the situation, something completely unexpected and extreme.

We all make mistakes and we all learn from them.  The dogs could be brought out as a dissuasive for a demonstration, but not a riot and if a demonstration turns into a riot they could retreat and be replaced by something else.  How's that?

 

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