What is going on in London?

[mint]

I don't suppose they'd ever catch the bar steward who did this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026107/UK-riots-2011-Police-dog-suffered-horrific-injuries-looting-thug-threw-brick.html

[Christine Animal]

"PC Wells said he was shocked at the violence that flared, which left all of the eight dogs in his unit on Tottenham High Road with cut pads on their paws from the broken glass and debris on the street.

Some suffered severe cuts and broken teeth."

Why do they expose the dogs to this?  They can't do anything on the end of a lead and they can't let them off into the rioters.  What would happen if one was injured by a dog?

 

[Pads]

I would of thought they would have small boots for the digs paws , they must of know there was smashed glass where they were ....and they say these police are close to the dogs they handle , afterthis and the ones left in the van I find that hard to believe

[Russethouse]

 If it was at the start perhaps it was in the period where police were treating it as a demonstration, if not, as you say what was the point of them being there...?

[Christine Animal]

Which ones left in a van Pads?

Have you seen on the photo RH how the police are protected, the dogs have absolutely nothing marching in front.  Just easy targets, dreadful.

http://forums.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-forums.showdiscussion/thread_id-77644/8ba7719e.html

 

[Théière]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 Talk about sweeping generalisation, 2 or 3 years ago I might have agreed with you, but  I think the days of people sharing rooms like that have gone, the jobs that made that attractive seem to have petered out, around here anyway.  [/quote]

RH, your comment is perhaps just as sweeping as mine, I can give 3 addresses at which I know multi occupancy is still happening as they are sites I look after, I am talking the building trade and also it was my Bulgarian friend who complained to me about other Eastern Europeans as he has a family and a mortgage to pay (he has always paid his way tax and NI) but finds himself often priced out of the work market still.

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 My daughter was on Job Seekers for 7 months and far from her appointments being at different times they were usually the same within an hour or so.....yes she had to keep a log of jobs she applied for and would have been able to claim interview costs in some circumstances (she didn't)  

[/quote]

It must be different areas and different office practices round SE London you can and are called in more frequently, also at odd times no extra money despite extra journeys and sometimes just for 5-10 minutes checks.

[quote user="Pommier"]I think Théière is a bit confused about JSA. From the government's website 'There are two types of Jobseeker's Allowance, 'contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance' and 'income-based Jobseeker's Allowance'. Contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance You may be entitled to claim contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance if you have paid enough National Insurance contributions (NICs). Jobcentre Plus can pay this for up to 182 days. Generally, self-employed contributions will not help you qualify for contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance. Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance This is based on your income and savings. You may get this if you have not paid enough NICs (or you've only paid contributions for self-employment) and you're on a low income.' This means that for those people who haven't paid sufficient NI contributions, JSA is indeed means tested.[/quote]

Thanks for that Pommier, it does help to see it explained as it seems a black art unless you are skilled in the subject like so many professional benefit claimers [:@] When you have a right to work as Europeans do in one another's country no problem. When however you turn up knowing more about how to claim this and that than the people who are domiciled and pay for the system and with of course no savings to lower your claim (except those savings in a foreign bank, untraceable).

Now don't get me wrong, some of these people as RH has stated are hard dedicated workers as my friends have found out when snow hit last year the Polish came through, the person even said we drive on this stuff a lot so no concern. Whereas a close relative with a landrover discovery couldn't get out of the road they live in so didn't turn up for work that day, lazy or ignorant British person?

Christine Animal, On the good news front and slightly off topic, the powers of horse racing are changing the grand national course as they have realised they or the fences have killed so many good animals over the years in the name of gambling.

[NormanH]

Thière " When however you turn up knowing more about how to claim this and that

than the people who are domiciled and pay for the system and with of

course no savings to lower your claim (except those savings in a foreign

bank, untraceable)."

Not only in London. I know of at least one Brit working on the black in France with savings in the UK, but claiming APL (Housing Benefit) and never declaring anything here.

That's immigrants for you eh? [6]

[Russethouse]

RH, your comment is perhaps just as sweeping as mine, I can give 3 addresses at which I know multi occupancy is still happening as they are sites I look after, I am talking the building trade and also it was my Bulgarian friend who complained to me about other Eastern Europeans as he has a family and a mortgage to pay (he has always paid his way tax and NI) but finds himself often priced out of the work market still.

We had work done on this house about 5 years ago and the problem was pretty rife then - mainly employed by 'buy to let' landlords with properties to do up - some local builders were doing quite well putting right what they had done wrong ! However when we had work done both last year and this year there was no griping about them, a few have stayed and made a life here (there was already a decent sized Polish community locally) others seem to have gone home,  but maybe they just moved to your area ! 

 If you think back this is not a new thing, 40 years ago men were coming from Pakistan and India and living like this while they saved for their families to join them - many of them succeeded and the families are integrated, the children went to university and now have good jobs or business

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Pads"]I would of thought they would have small boots for the digs paws , they must of know there was smashed glass where they were ....and they say these police are close to the dogs they handle , afterthis and the ones left in the van I find that hard to believe[/quote]

I have a friend who is a Vet to a Police dog unit. Over several years and at his own expense, he has tried to design and manufacture a boot which will protect dog's feet from broken glass and similar.

Despite some promising prototypes, a dog's foot anatomy combined with the physiology of how the dog uses its feet, makes the design of a protective boot almost impossible to date. Some forces do have stab vests available for their canine members, but again these garments present additional problems to the working dog in as much as the protective garment may be fine for short duration wear, there is a danger of the dog overheating if the garment is worn for long periods of activity.

 

[NormanH]

Now they want to evict families of those not yet even convicted. Dubious as there's a term for this – collective punishment. It is illegal under international law.

See this article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/16/evict-rioters-families

'The idea seems to be that those in social housing could just find

somewhere else, they could just walk into private housing. Like the

similar proposals for taking away housing benefit from miscreants, it is

based on an inability to imagine what poverty is like, to think for a

second what might happen to a family when it loses its income or its

home'

Of course it is just another step towards removing the "undeserving" poor from highly profitable inner-city sites.

[Christine Animal]

That was good news about the Grand National Teapot.

 

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

Despite some promising prototypes, a dog's foot anatomy combined with the physiology of how the dog uses its feet, makes the design of a protective boot almost impossible to date. [/quote]

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Buster-Strong-Soled-Dog-Boot/productinfo/DOGBOOT2/

"The Buster dog boots are made from thin rubber latex with a Velcro string, They are easy to place on the paws and easy to clean.
These dog boots give perfect protection for working dogs when they explore ground and on surfaces that are extremely hard e.g. rocky ground rubbish dumps area with steel shavings broken glass snow and ice.. The dog boots reduce the number of injuries to paws thus extending the dogs' hours of work."

 

[Pads]

Then you friend hasnt looked very hard

just google dog proctective footwear there are 100's also used by drug dogs to stop them licked drugs off their paws...

If you care about your animal you find an answer ......

[audio]

I know a police dog handler, he once told me ‘you don’t want to know how we train them’ Cruelty comes to mind, I wish the RSPCA could keep a close eye on their methods.

[Pads]

Sorry chris missed your last question

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13932187

[Russethouse]

[quote user="NormanH"]Now they want to evict families of those not yet even convicted. Dubious as there's a term for this – collective punishment. It is illegal under international law.
See this article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/16/evict-rioters-families

'The idea seems to be that those in social housing could just find somewhere else, they could just walk into private housing. Like the similar proposals for taking away housing benefit from miscreants, it is based on an inability to imagine what poverty is like, to think for a second what might happen to a family when it loses its income or its home'

Of course it is just another step towards removing the "undeserving" poor from highly profitable inner-city sites.


[/quote]

 The fact is Norman that part of the contract for many social housing providers requires good behavior - on a recent phone in I heard, many of the people advocating evicting them were other social housing tenants - frankly I don't see much point in it because somehow these people will have to be housed, usually at the tax payers expense - I expect a case could be made for making an example of a few people to encourage good behavior in others......that seems to me to be what is going on with some of the sentencing.

[mint]

Wow, Christine, those dinky dog boots just look so cute.......besides protecting doggy feet, of course![:D]

In a way, I wish I hadn't seen that article about the dogs that were injured.  It just made me so sad and so angry at the same time.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Pads"]Then you friend hasnt looked very hard just google dog proctective footwear there are 100's also used by drug dogs to stop them licked drugs off their paws... If you care about your animal you find an answer ......[/quote]

My friend is the Veterinary Surgeon to a large county Police Dog unit. There may be 100's of protective footwear types available for dogs, but in his opinion there is obviously NOT a suitable foot protection for GSD's performing a particular role.

I think it fair to say that in his fairly unique position, he would have a good idea of what is available, and what works, don't you? 

[Pads]

No not really ... If he dosnt care personally about the dogs and is working to rules and budgets and cares more about the performance of the dog than the dog its self I would say he was the last person to know what is best for the dog ....

If he would rather send a dog out with no protection ... do you really think what your saying is right ?

Ps Would you expect the police to go there with no shoes on ?

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="audio"]

I know a police dog handler, he once told me ‘you don’t want to know how we train them’ Cruelty comes to mind, I wish the RSPCA could keep a close eye on their methods.

[/quote]

You might care to read through this link and reconsider your suggestion, [url]http://rspcanotwhattheyseem.blogspot.com/2009/11/police-investigate-rspca-for-animal.html[/url]

[audio]

[quote user="Salty Sam"][quote user="audio"]

I know a police dog handler, he once told me ‘you don’t want to know how we train them’ Cruelty comes to mind, I wish the RSPCA could keep a close eye on their methods.

[/quote]

You might care to read through this link and reconsider your suggestion, [url]http://rspcanotwhattheyseem.blogspot.com/2009/11/police-investigate-rspca-for-animal.html[/url]

[/quote]

Hmm! That’s an unwelcome surprise. I will certainly reconsider my donations to them.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Pads"]No not really ... If he dosnt care personally about the dogs and is working to rules and budgets and cares more about the performance of the dog than the dog its self I would say he was the last person to know what is best for the dog ....[/quote] How ridiculous! He is the Vet who tends to the animals when they are injured, and he is the one trying to find an answer to a problem. Its got nothing to do with rules and budgets, as they've trialled many types of footwear - none of which work, and some are hazardous in their own right!

[quote user="Pads"] If he would rather send a dog out with no protection ... do you really think what your saying is right ? Ps Would you expect the police to go there with no shoes on ?[/quote]

'He' is not the one sending the dogs out on operational duties. 'He' is the one who recommended strict time limits for dogs wearing protective coats due to heat exhaustion issues. 'He' is the one trying to design a boot that works.

On the subject of care, I would suggest you make an appointment to visit your County Dog unit, then report back here that the there is anything other than care and compassion demonstrated between handler and dog!

I find it deeply offensive that you are implying a Veterinary Surgeon doesn't care about an animals wellbeing.

[Pads]

Yet still dogs are going out with no protection !!

Whats better protection that may not be perfect or no protection....let me go ponder on that ....And Im not a vet !!

If a shoe Is fitted properly and used from a young age so the animal is use to it it wont be hazardous unless you mean they may trip over their shoe laces !!

He is not doing his job very well if he is allowing them out to walk on glass with no protection..... or is he making more money sewing them up afterwards??

Only as a offensive as you making sweeping statements about the RSPCA from one mans blog and one incident !!

[Salty Sam]

As they saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss", and you obviously want to believe what you want to believe.

I'm sorry you find the link offensive, however if you would remove your rose tinted spectacles for one minute, Google for yourself and it will all add up to a lot more than one mans blog and, if you had spared some time to actually read the link, you would see there are a lot more than "one incident".

You are probably one of those misinformed individuals who think the RSPCA have legal rights!

[Pads]

I have no glasses at all in fact and know there are bad people in the RSPCA just like there are in the police , hospitals vets and vicars but on the whole most of them are doing some good .....

But that does not justify the fact that dogs are expected to walk on glass when it is not nessecery .

Please dont lower your self to insults just because I dont agree with you .....

[Joe]

Just seen the latest on the news.The 4 year sentence have been criticised by the "yumen rights brigade" as being disproportional to the crimes commited. Not according to a police spokesman.Here,here.