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[quote user="pachapapa"]

In full agreement with the spirit of your post.

Well said, Sweet.

I shall now return to watching television; whilst metaphorically continuing to trash tatty Quimper Pottery Shops.

[/quote]

  I'm sure you'll be happy to know that the new owner wants to go upmarket and now its 'Henriot Quimper'

http://www.henriotboutique.com/index.php?language=en

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[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="pachapapa"]

In full agreement with the spirit of your post.

Well said, Sweet.

I shall now return to watching television; whilst metaphorically continuing to trash tatty Quimper Pottery Shops.

[/quote]

  I'm sure you'll be happy to know that the new owner wants to go upmarket and now its 'Henriot Quimper'

http://www.henriotboutique.com/index.php?language=en

[/quote]

Makes me wanna puke....reminds me of seaside 1950s holiday souvenirs.

Bit of a laugh though the website..

one of the eldest French manufactures.

and creation capacity is recognized through the official status

 everything is hand-made from the mould creation

Obviously corrected and proof read by an official french agrée Breton traductrice suffering from mild bad egg gas wafting in from the rotting green algae covered beaches.[:D]

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RH 'Germany had the benefit of Marshall aid, (for political as well as

financial reasons) we got stuck with repaying lease lend until 2006'

"Hard luck story

We all know the easy British explanation for our cumulative export

defeat in world markets from the 1950s onwards, especially at the hands

of the Germans. This story tells us that lucky West Germany had all

her industries and infrastructure bombed flat or removed as reparations,

and then was able to re-equip herself from scratch with Marshall Aid

dollars. Meanwhile, so this hard-luck story goes on, poor old Britain

had to struggle on with worn-out and old-fashioned kit.

Britain actually received more than a third more Marshall Aid than West Germany ...

This is utter myth. Britain actually received more than a third

more Marshall Aid than West Germany - $2.7 billion as against $1.7

billion. She in fact pocketed the largest share of any European nation.

The truth is that the post-war Government, advised by its

resident economic pundits, freely chose not to make industrial

modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid.

source BBC History

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

How much North Sea Oil revenue did the German Government have to squander in that period?

Compare with Britain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6505670/North-Sea-oil-is-dragging-us-into-the-red.html

"The result is that while we are apt to attribute the sudden spurt in

Britain's prosperity in the mid- to late-1980s to a deregulated and

reinvigorated City, it owed far more to the massive windfall from the

North Sea. Take a look at the numbers. In 1979, when Margaret Thatcher

came to power, the amount Britain owed, as a nation, was £88.6 billion.

In the subsequent six years, taxes from the North Sea (which had been

pretty much non-existent previously) generated an incredible £52.4

billion."

and people still claim it was her policies that improved the finances...

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="pachapapa"]

In full agreement with the spirit of your post.

Well said, Sweet.

I shall now return to watching television; whilst metaphorically continuing to trash tatty Quimper Pottery Shops.

[/quote]

  I'm sure you'll be happy to know that the new owner wants to go upmarket and now its 'Henriot Quimper'

http://www.henriotboutique.com/index.php?language=en

[/quote]

Makes me wanna puke....reminds me of seaside 1950s holiday souvenirs.

Bit of a laugh though the website..

one of the eldest French manufactures.

and creation capacity is recognized through the official status

 everything is hand-made from the mould creation

Obviously corrected and proof read by an official french agrée Breton traductrice suffering from mild bad egg gas wafting in from the rotting green algae covered beaches.[:D]

[/quote]

 It takes all sorts,  personally I particularly like its variety and the way it celebrates the heritage of the region - from Alfred Beau through to the Modern Movement artists, Mehuet, Haffen, Savigny, Brisson, Sevellec, then more recently Fouillen, Cuddenec, Toulhoat, Taburret, Lapique, Moal, Lalys to name just a few ...... and then of course there is the variety of technique : Broderie, Odetta etc......

 I agree the translation isn't stellar but I believe the new owner wishes to concentrate on the domestic market......somehow I'm sure they'll manage without your patronage.....[:)]

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Like Sweet 17, I too feel very upset about what happened in the streets of London and other cities during this week. My head is full of words and images that aren't coherent and I don't know how to make sense of them.

For example:

A young girl describes her antics on the street as "the best day of my life."

There are no fire engines or men attending a blazing building.

Reporters repeatedly use the word "blame" -  who is to blame for causing this/ should the police be blamed for not intervening when looting was being carried out/are government cuts to blame for creating more poverty.

Young law-breakers phoning with their mobile phones.

Devastated and terrified people who have lost their homes or businesses through arson.

Men armed with cricket bats readying themselves to defend their property if the police can't by "taking the law into their own hands".

MPs threatening vengeance/pleading for understanding

Young people described as "feral rats".

I feel very strongly that our society has embraced Rights for all, but forgotten to include Responsibilities for all as well, hence many people expect only to be given, not to give.

The last government introduced the subject of Citizenship into primary schools a few years ago, and forgot to include Community Spirit. This government cuts community project grants and directs communities to create and run any projects in their own time and with few or no resources.

I don't want to conduct a diatribe about these events, well actually I've just deleted a diatribe here, I just feel sad at the moment, and I don't think the politicians are going to get this right yet again, judging by what they're saying today.

 

 

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All these posts about Thatcher and Blair and blame are history . The situation today Right now Needs to be faced up to and a course of action put into place to deal with it .

As I see it a prevention policy has to be put in place before the situation can be repeated in the future

Cutting police finances if that is the way the Home Secretary insists she wants to go may result in future if there is more damaging civil unrest in a chief officer of police saying " I could have dealt with it if you had not cut my numbers "

So the Home Secretary as I see it is now between a rock and a hard place .

I note today after all the talk in the House of Commons of what must be done to deal with the situation cuts to police numbers seem to have been left to go ahead .....

If there is a repeat of massive civil unrest and this government has not learned from recent events and acted accordingly then I think they will pay the price at the next election .
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Quote -

Frankly, anyone who wishes us to be more like the Germans should seriously think what that means. Control, control, control. Whereas Margaret Thatcher broke the grey, control-freak mould and failure of the socialism imposed by Labour and gave people the chance to work and earn for themselves. Blair and Brown destroyed that by  emascualting the superb pensions inheritance of the British people, restricting the entrepreneur culture and by massively increasing the useless job myth of the public sector which, remember, lives off the backs of others exclusively. B and B never created a private sector job which is the only type of job that creates wealth, which in turn they depended on to fund their stupidity.

What they did to the education sector is worthy of the guillotine at any time; to simplify matters, they watered down everything and sold the idea that it was excellence. That is the cause of these riots.

For Bobo's sake, leave you childish, univeristy socialism behind, some of you and get real.

Unquote -

That amounts to pure rhetoric I am afraid to say.. As I said before people need to face the true facts of recent economic history (as so brilliantly supplied hereto by our Norman!). It always makes sense to learn from the mistakes of the past. Whatever political hue one might favour.

Sara
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Sara & Sweet17.....do you have ANY suggested solutions....or will you just leave that up to 'yesterdays' politicians.........

Maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to who, in your opinion, did a good job ? Try and restrict it to living memory though!

Could it possibly, just possibly be that some of these rioters were just born bad ? Just thought I'd throw it out there as a completely radical idea (! :-) ).

Simon :-)

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Surely it is the result in part of years of no discipline for children - so many parents can be seen to allow their very young children to answer them back, swear at them, kick them, hit them.  How can they then expect the same children when they are older to behave any differently?  I was brought up to respect my parents, relatives and other people, which in turn includes self-respect. 

We ate at the table as a family and talked together - so many now either eat lying on the floor or sitting on a settee watching tv or playing games. 

There are far too many single parent families, where the father has gone off and left the mother to cope single-handed, trying to feed, clothe and discipline alone.  We all know how hard it is when there are two parents.  Both parents need to be responsible for their children.

The teachers are not allowed to discipline the children, the police have had their hands tied behind their back.  Hence we have a generation of youngsters who are in contempt of their parents, teachers, police and any "authority" figure.   How sad it is for them too.

We all know the mess that various poiiciticans have made of our economy and indeed the world economy and we are all having to pay the price.  It has been obvious for years that cutting down on manufacturing and relying on service etc could not last.  Farmers and all agricultural providers are being driven out of business by cheap imports until there will be very few and then we will be "held to ransom" on price and availability on importation. 

I like most of us worked all my life and paid my dues and now find that my standard of living is diminishing day by day due to minimal interest rates and constantly rising costs.

Oh well, moan for the day is now over.  Good luck and good health to all.

 

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[quote user="Sara"]That amounts to pure rhetoric I am afraid to say.. As I said before people need to face the true facts of recent economic history (as so brilliantly supplied hereto by our Norman!). It always makes sense to learn from the mistakes of the past. Whatever political hue one might favour. Sara[/quote]

The last Tory government left a small debt on the countries credit card, Labour maxed out the credit card. The debt fell to 29% of GDP when the last Tory government left power and rose to around  60.6% of GDP under the last Labour government. Under the Wilson Callaghan governments the debt rose to just over 50% of GDP (source ONS). One can see a pattern.

People want new schools, hospitals etc and Labour has traditionally supplied them, likewise they have traditionally run up massive debt leaving the countries credit card maxed out. At some time or another one has to pay the credit card back else the bailiffs come knocking, that's what is happening now in the UK (paying the money back) and it means we can't afford all these planned new hospitals, massive amount of public sector workers with final salary linked pensions etc. As Thatcher said, and I paraphrase, "any housewife will tell you that you can only spend the money you have in your purse". The problem is the UK is so much in debt that it still needs to borrow, the BoE has worked out that by 2014 the debt will be 100% of GDP because of the massive projects the UK is bound to by the last Labour government. The size of the debt is between 4.2 and 4.6 trillion pounds depending what you read and going up all the time all be it now at a lower rate, it's like a telephone number really, a very big one at that, and it's difficult to get your head round the numbers sometimes.

Those are the facts I am afraid and that's what you have to face up to, Labours massive spending leaving the country with a massive debt it can never really pay back. I think the best thing the UK could possibly do is just default and ride out the storm for the next 20 or so years but that's highly unlikely to happen. The things it now has to do is....

Economic Expansion which improves Tax Revenues and reduces spending on benefits like Job Seekers Allowance (what Thatcher referred to as monetarism)

Improved performance of banks increases prospect of regaining financial sector intervention

Government Spending cuts and tax rises (e.g. VAT) which improve public finances.

Some of these have already taken place and others are to follow.

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[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Sara & Sweet17.....do you have ANY suggested solutions....or will you just leave that up to 'yesterdays' politicians......... Maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to who, in your opinion, did a good job ? Try and restrict it to living memory though! Could it possibly, just possibly be that some of these rioters were just born bad ? Just thought I'd throw it out there as a completely radical idea (! :-) ). Simon :-)[/quote]

As you know, I have said I will no longer contribute to this thread but I don't want you, Simon, to think that you have thrown down some sort of gauntlet that I am reluctant to pick up!  Now, that would NEVER do, will it?

And, yes, I do have lots of thoughts about Thatcher, Blair, etc.  I am NOT a Thatcher fan and I certainly never voted for her.  But then, to give her her due, she wouldn't have been in Tuscany even as the problems erupted in London, as Cameron was, and certainly wouldn't have been photographed with her arm around a waitress, just because it was a photo-opportunity, nearly 2 days into the rioting in London.

As for Blair, he is just a CREEP!  Who else would have reinstated that arch horror, Mandelson, into government?  I know for a fact that if I'd lied on a mortgage application, I'd have been struck off all the professional bodies to which I belonged and barely given a chance to explain myself.

When Cameron said that water canons could be deployed with 24-hours' notice, I snorted with derision.  Yes, I know it's not ladylike to snort but to give thugs 24 hours' notice?  Why didn't he just say outright, OK, you have 24 hours in which to loot, commit arson and do your worst but after that we will be training water canons on you?

So, you see, Simon, it's not that I have suddenly become some sort of shrinking violet and am holding my peace.  But, you know what, I think I am so antithetical to you, from the few posts of yours that I have read, that, in those immortal words of diplomacy, I dont' think we can have any meaningful dialogue.  Know what I mean? (as they say)[6]

I don't think we have enough common ground to carry on talking to each other and so, I will bid you good day.

I have lots of people that I like on the Forum and some people with whom I disagree but still like.  There are some that I have met and have certainly liked.  There are plenty whom I will never meet but will still have an interest in talking to.

But, regrettably, Simon, I don't know you well enough to say to which category you belong.  So, please excuse me whilst I go back to putting out lunch and not contribute further.

   

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Britain lived and lives on tick, doesnt work, creates artificial, State aid jobs of no national worth. Devalues the educational system, allows massive, uncontrolled immigration which sucks up any jobs.

And then we have to listen to rants about Margaret Thatcher, as if the years before her were some sort of nirvana -three day week, going to the IMF for a loan, Leyland killed by strikes, post office that couldnt even be bothered to install fones, waiting years for a mortgage....... need one go on, Sara!

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It was not a rant on my part or indeed the part of Norman. Far from it I would suggest.

My suggestion is to address the perfectly valid points that have been raised by those with a somewhat divergement view to your own.

The U.K. is now tantamount to being bankrupt. So indeed is the U.S.A. I do of course accept that many other countries are also in serious difficulty. To a lesser or greater degree I suppose we all participated in the feeding frenzy. If I can call it that.

This situation did not develop as a consequence of mere chance or indeed bad luck. I would once again put it to yourself & others that there was an underlying proximate cause for the financial meltdown we have witnessed over recent years. A fairly obvious one.

To hide from the real causes of this situation I do believe is an unwise strategy.

Sara
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[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Sara & Sweet17.....do you have ANY suggested solutions....or will you just leave that up to 'yesterdays' politicians......... Maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to who, in your opinion, did a good job ? Try and restrict it to living memory though! Could it possibly, just possibly be that some of these rioters were just born bad ? Just thought I'd throw it out there as a completely radical idea (! :-) ). Simon :-)[/quote]

As you know, I have said I will no longer contribute to this thread but I don't want you, Simon, to think that you have thrown down some sort of gauntlet that I am reluctant to pick up!  Now, that would NEVER do, will it?

And, yes, I do have lots of thoughts about Thatcher, Blair, etc.  I am NOT a Thatcher fan and I certainly never voted for her.  But then, to give her her due, she wouldn't have been in Tuscany even as the problems erupted in London, as Cameron was, and certainly wouldn't have been photographed with her arm around a waitress, just because it was a photo-opportunity, nearly 2 days into the rioting in London.

As for Blair, he is just a CREEP!  Who else would have reinstated that arch horror, Mandelson, into government?  I know for a fact that if I'd lied on a mortgage application, I'd have been struck off all the professional bodies to which I belonged and barely given a chance to explain myself.

When Cameron said that water canons could be deployed with 24-hours' notice, I snorted with derision.  Yes, I know it's not ladylike to snort but to give thugs 24 hours' notice?  Why didn't he just say outright, OK, you have 24 hours in which to loot, commit arson and do your worst but after that we will be training water canons on you?

So, you see, Simon, it's not that I have suddenly become some sort of shrinking violet and am holding my peace.  But, you know what, I think I am so antithetical to you, from the few posts of yours that I have read, that, in those immortal words of diplomacy, I dont' think we can have any meaningful dialogue.  Know what I mean? (as they say)[6]

I don't think we have enough common ground to carry on talking to each other and so, I will bid you good day.

I have lots of people that I like on the Forum and some people with whom I disagree but still like.  There are some that I have met and have certainly liked.  There are plenty whom I will never meet but will still have an interest in talking to.

But, regrettably, Simon, I don't know you well enough to say to which category you belong.  So, please excuse me whilst I go back to putting out lunch and not contribute further.

   

[/quote]

 

Well sweet 17 - that was all very interesting but....to go back to my question (or 'gauntlet') - of our past politicians in living memory - who do you think did a good job ?

Oh and....how terribly naughty of David Cameron to take a holiday - quite obviously he didn't have a note of the upcoming riots in his diary! Know what I mean ......?

Oh and....when you have categorised me, do let me know which one I'm honoured with....I can barely wait.....

Simon :-)

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

Sara & Sweet17.....do you have ANY suggested solutions....or will you just leave that up to 'yesterdays' politicians........

Maybe 'move to France' is the answer [:D]  ( I'm teasing so don't get all bent out of shape ).

[/quote]

I am not sure that moving to the france of the "poisonous dwarf" is a solution but moving out of the UK seems an eminently rational decision.

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[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="pachapapa"]

In full agreement with the spirit of your post.

Well said, Sweet.

I shall now return to watching television; whilst metaphorically continuing to trash tatty Quimper Pottery Shops.

[/quote]

  I'm sure you'll be happy to know that the new owner wants to go upmarket and now its 'Henriot Quimper'

http://www.henriotboutique.com/index.php?language=en

[/quote]

Makes me wanna puke....reminds me of seaside 1950s holiday souvenirs.

Bit of a laugh though the website..

one of the eldest French manufactures.

and creation capacity is recognized through the official status

 everything is hand-made from the mould creation

Obviously corrected and proof read by an official french agrée Breton traductrice suffering from mild bad egg gas wafting in from the rotting green algae covered beaches.[:D]

[/quote]

 It takes all sorts,  personally I particularly like its variety and the way it celebrates the heritage of the region - from Alfred Beau through to the Modern Movement artists, Mehuet, Haffen, Savigny, Brisson, Sevellec, then more recently Fouillen, Cuddenec, Toulhoat, Taburret, Lapique, Moal, Lalys to name just a few ...... and then of course there is the variety of technique : Broderie, Odetta etc......

 I agree the translation isn't stellar but I believe the new owner wishes to concentrate on the domestic market......somehow I'm sure they'll manage without your patronage.....[:)]

[/quote]

I shall of course duly patronise when the algae green soup plates go on sale.

to name just a few ....too pleonasmic for me.

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I was amused watching the review of the press on Sky last night when Barclays advised that any moratorium on the payment of the mortgage on a burnt out flat in tottenham was absolutely and completely out of the question.

 I thought now that is just what the iron lady would have said.

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="pachapapa"]

In full agreement with the spirit of your post.

Well said, Sweet.

I shall now return to watching television; whilst metaphorically continuing to trash tatty Quimper Pottery Shops.

[/quote]

  I'm sure you'll be happy to know that the new owner wants to go upmarket and now its 'Henriot Quimper'

http://www.henriotboutique.com/index.php?language=en

[/quote]

Makes me wanna puke....reminds me of seaside 1950s holiday souvenirs.

Bit of a laugh though the website..

one of the eldest French manufactures.

and creation capacity is recognized through the official status

 everything is hand-made from the mould creation

Obviously corrected and proof read by an official french agrée Breton traductrice suffering from mild bad egg gas wafting in from the rotting green algae covered beaches.[:D]

[/quote]

 It takes all sorts,  personally I particularly like its variety and the way it celebrates the heritage of the region - from Alfred Beau through to the Modern Movement artists, Mehuet, Haffen, Savigny, Brisson, Sevellec, then more recently Fouillen, Cuddenec, Toulhoat, Taburret, Lapique, Moal, Lalys to name just a few ...... and then of course there is the variety of technique : Broderie, Odetta etc......

 I agree the translation isn't stellar but I believe the new owner wishes to concentrate on the domestic market......somehow I'm sure they'll manage without your patronage.....[:)]

[/quote]

I shall of course duly patronise when the algae green soup plates go on sale.

to name just a few ....too pleonasmic for me.

[/quote]

 Your loss ![;-)]

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[quote user="pachapapa"]

A snippet from BBC Live Text, whilst watching the debate live on line.[:)]

Radek in London

emails: On behalf of all the Polish builders working in London I would like to thank the rioters for creating so much work for restoration of the damages. Thanks to you, the children in Poland will have amazing Christmas!

[/quote]

Exactly my point in my post about stealing jobs !

I don't care the builder is Polish or from Mars or Neptune. I just care that the local unemployed is not hungry enough to get up, find a builder and be on that payroll. The dole cheque is far too easy to obtain.

 

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