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What is going on in London?


Joe
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[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Why do these 'thugs' cover their faces and wear hoods ? Could it possibly be because the darlings actually know they are doing something wrong.......? Bang em up! Simon :-)[/quote]

But Simon, there is no room in the jails and the PC & human rights mob are against it.

I say bring back the birch and give them a real good thrashing and to hell with what the do gooders think.

 

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[quote user="Christine Animal"]

They are not just smashing and stealing, they are burning other people's houses down, people who have worked hard to get their house.  It's unbelievable and there is no excuse or reason to justify it.

Get the army in, ship them all off to Japan to help the people who really have something to be sorry about.  There was no looting there, just respect and dignity.  What a culture difference, if you can call that a culture.

 

[/quote]

That's exactly it Christine... why was that?  Why is there this dreadful yob culture in the UK?  And of course I dont think it's everyone and everywhere, as all of my friends are horrified by this extreme minority, but the culture does exist and it is ugly; how do you reverse it?

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[quote user="audio"]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Why do these 'thugs' cover their faces and wear hoods ? Could it possibly be because the darlings actually know they are doing something wrong.......? Bang em up! Simon :-)[/quote]

But Simon, there is no room in the jails and the PC & human rights mob are against it.

I say bring back the birch and give them a real good thrashing and to hell with what the do gooders think.

 

[/quote]

Then what?  That's it  - problem solved?

Brian (again)

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[quote user="Christine Animal"]

Get the army in,

[/quote]

Sorry Christine - and you're not the only one to have said it, so I'm not singling you out - but, "Get the Army in" is daft.

Quite simply, they're not trained in urban riot control.  Their role is armed warfare. Oh and before anybody says it, happily we're not at that stage yet!  

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[quote user="Chancer"]

Those two girls talking on the BBC report have shaken me to the core.

"We are just showing the Police that we can do what we like"

"Its the fault of the government, yeah its all their fault, the conservatives, or is it labour? Who-ever' its their fault"

But these are local people whose businesses are being ransacked and whose homes are being burnt.............

"Yeah but they're rich, its all their fault, we are just showing the rich that we can do what we want"

My apologies as I am sure that I have not recalled it verbatim.

I am not at all interested in all the debate as to whether society is to blame, what political party or how far it dates back, they dont even know who is in government, they  do it because it excites them and they get things for free and most of all they know that they can get away with it, in any case they believe its not their fault, its the government and the rich people, (presumably the hard working immigrant shopkeepers currently trying to protect their livelyhoods and families).

[/quote]

Chancer ...............

Couldn't have put it better. 

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[quote user="brianagain"][quote user="audio"]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Why do these 'thugs' cover their faces and wear hoods ? Could it possibly be because the darlings actually know they are doing something wrong.......? Bang em up! Simon :-)[/quote]

But Simon, there is no room in the jails and the PC & human rights mob are against it.

I say bring back the birch and give them a real good thrashing and to hell with what the do gooders think.

 

[/quote]

Then what?  That's it  - problem solved?

Brian (again)
[/quote]

 

Ah pacifism thoughts I believe, ‘what next?’ the same again.[6]

 

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Having spent some of the afternoon boarding up buildings in north end Croydon opposite a destroyed tesco store. We learned that some of the looters live in the flats we were protecting. These are NOT feral kids, these are adults in their first homes (all private) and have been caught on the CCTV cameras as well as being identified by other residents who watched them looting the tesco store. We are passing the tapes to the police.
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[quote user="audio"]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Why do these 'thugs' cover their faces and wear hoods ? Could it possibly be because the darlings actually know they are doing something wrong.......? Bang em up! Simon :-)[/quote]

But Simon, there is no room in the jails and the PC & human rights mob are against it.

I say bring back the birch and give them a real good thrashing and to hell with what the do gooders think.

/

[/quote]What do you have against do-gooders? do you prefer do-badders?
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Norman, whilst I might agree or disagree with where you believe the original fault lays what you have failed, repeatedly, to do is to offer any solution. Isn't this one of the biggest problems in the UK "not my fault mate, it was the other fella". The UK is full of people, it seems to me, who are very keen to blame anyone else for their woes but refuse point blank to take personal responsibility for their own actions..
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Gardian, what I said about getting the army in was "tongue in cheek", the same as shipping them off to Japan.

But, it is said that the police cannot cope, so what force could cope?  You can't just let them carry on like this.

I too liked what Chancer posted, but then I often do!

Rose, what can be done to reverse the situation?  I have no idea and I don't think anyone has!   Maybe it's something to do with human nature.  When there are no more predators or war to occupy our natural need to fight and defend ourselves for survival, those who don't work (which is in a manner a way to survive and use up energy) have a need to use up all this unused energy and suddenly explode, especially when it can be such "fun" to destroy.  I really don't know.

 

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[quote user="Quillan"]". The UK is full of people, it seems to me, who are very keen to blame anyone else for their woes but refuse point blank to take personal responsibility for their own actions..[/quote]

 No it isn't - there are people who wont take responsibility for their own actions of course, but then there are everywhere - the great majority of people live pretty quiet responsible lives.......

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Reading all these posts a lot of people are angry.. But anger is not going to change anything . today tomorrow or next week .There is not a lot of suggestions coming forth to stop this now .

I believe it will only stop when these rioters/looters are too frightened to go out and do that they do .

I think what is needed is an announcement of a mandatory punishment regardless of age attached to a prison sentence where work is like the US prison system,

Work chain gangs . Dressed in orange boiler suites linked in line and cleaning ditches . Or sent to a prison outside the UK I am sure there would be some Commonwealth country happy to take the UKs money to house a few ... That might just frighten them into behaving themselves .
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[quote user="Frederick"]Reading all these posts a lot of people are angry.. But anger is not going to change anything . today tomorrow or next week .There is not a lot of suggestions coming forth to stop this now . I believe it will only stop when these rioters/looters are too frightened to go out and do that they do . I think what is needed is an announcement of a mandatory punishment regardless of age attached to a prison sentence where work is like the US prison system, Work chain gangs . Dressed in orange boiler suites linked in line and cleaning ditches . Or sent to a prison outside the UK I am sure there would be some Commonwealth country happy to take the UKs money to house a few ... That might just frighten them into behaving themselves .[/quote]

But what about their human rights[Www]

I heard the Home Sec and a police superintendant saying that policing in the UK is by consentment.  Does this mean the police ask these yobs if it's ok if they arrest them?

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I think it is totally amazing to see groups of police and dozens of citizens standing watching a handful of kids trashing and burning.

What a totally spineless bunch the Brits have become.

Right now there is a cameraman on TV describing how he and a bunch of bystanders watched some yobs break into a shop, doing nothing, of course, then getting all indignant because a couple of police arrived and did exactly what they had been doing. B*ggerall.

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Quoting Russethouse I think  : .... The unemployed in these areas do not have a lot of money to spend on luxury items.  ..... these riots have been partially organised by using some sort of Blackberry messaging system - seems they have the money for expensive phones..... Unquote

 

WHO  has paid for that smart technology which allowed the rapid copycat rioting accross UK ? ... NOT these unemployed wantonely going about the high street in search of a shop to loot.

The person who has paid for that blackberry is YOU and I and EVERYONE who works jolly hard and duly pays their taxes to finance all that myriad of social benefits that these thugs and their families are enjoying and see fit to abuse to finance their own materialistic lifestyle ...

 

 

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Exactly - these days it seems to me that the unemployed have more money

than those of who worked (or did work hard before retirement).  I don't

know how, as I could not manage on unemployment pay, but they seem to be

able to buy all those things I cannot afford (even if I wished to have

them). 
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[quote user="Quillan"]Norman, whilst I might agree or disagree with where you believe the original fault lays what you have failed, repeatedly, to do is to offer any solution. Isn't this one of the biggest problems in the UK "not my fault mate, it was the other fella". The UK is full of people, it seems to me, who are very keen to blame anyone else for their woes but refuse point blank to take personal responsibility for their own actions..[/quote]

I was  reflecting on the sources of the 'me now' culture, not trying to offer a quick fix.

I can honestly say "not my fault mate, it was the other fella"...I haven't been in London this century .

I hope that the seeds of a solution lie in the revulsion expressed by 'normal' people in the areas affected, as long as it doesn't tip over into vigilantism .

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[quote user="NormanH"]Interesting to think that the Government is depending on the Police to sort this out.  George Osborne showed his usual grasp in March when he announced cuts to their Budget
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/07/police-chiefs-lose-28000-staff
[/quote]

 

 Given that the huge nembers of Police on the streets seems to have worked in London last night .  Will Londoners be happy to see their numbers cut to a level that may bring  a return of riots and looting ?   I think the whole stratedegy regarding the  Policing  of cities, to take into account what has just happened will have to be looked at again . Extra offices extra training extra equipment  and this is going to be expensive ... Perhaps the huge overseas aid package we seem to be financially supporting more than other countries  is where some of the money could be found ?  

Perhaps a part time  Police Community  Support Force for civil unrest  run like the TA from TA centers of trained and paid people is what is needed ?

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Norman, the most significant thing so far is that ordinary people are banding together to reclaim their communities from the thugs. These people are also products of the grab it society but seem not to have needed to resort to looting to get what they want or need. They are much more representative of the average man and woman on the Clapham omnibus than the thugs who have always existed, by the way, if you have read the history books, which I am sure you have.

Thatcher articulated a need in most people to free themselves from the awful greyness imposed by the left which has lead to a spirit of entrepreneurship within the law, ranging from Alan Sugar to those guys who make their living at boot sales (without selling stolen goods).

The education system has let these thugs down in many ways because it is not seen as a shining path out of the ghetto but a route to mediocrity and unemployment or boring no end jobs. That is fairly the fault of the academic left, particularly in local government and education.

Look at the communities who have succeeded - the Chinese, the Indians, from the same starting points - this is not racism but cultural ethic. What the education system should have been giving to the black and white underclasses is a new ethic, involving parents too, rather than teaching that they are oppressed and downtrodden, as well as showing the way forward. Grammar schools, scholarships, decent technical education..... the list goes on. Not pointless handouts and a culture of justified failure!

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 I'm pretty sure we discussed apprenticeships etc on the forum a little while ago - I can't help but wonder if the culture in schools towards the academic and the attendant exams doesn't leave a whole raft of youngsters going through the net and starting out feeling a failure. If you don't value yourself its hard to value anything else.

For example when I was at school our headmaster was very strict but he made us believe that every one of us had a talent or skill and all we had to do was find it and make the most of it, recently I heard some one on the radio criticising this idea and virtually saying 'some people are just stupid' not everyone has talent or can learn a skill. It seems to me that attitude takes away confidence any  hope of improving your lot.

 Why not go back to allowing kids who are not academic and who want leave and follow a different path, do that, providing they have a job to go to - and beef up the apprenticeship schemes -  (really what is the point of keeping kids at school if they don't learn the basics, the other day I had a young chap here working, his daughter had been given a plant to grow in the school holidays and he didn't know what it was, but it was like something I had growing - so he asked me what it was called - it was a courgette !!!  Then instead of completing the lesson and letting her eat it - they gave it away ! [8-)])

 I had an email from a friend in California this morning, she makes two points which chime with me particularly, although she is talking about her own state:

 Construction has always led us out of recessions before.

 My father always used to say this - if the construction industry is healthy a lot of things lead from it..........we need to get housing going again and do what we can to encourage this

I hope the riots don't touch your area, but see them for what they are,
they are the voice of the disenfranchised who feel they have no voice at
the table.

Many of these people have nothing invested in the UK, its take, take, take - they seem to lack any perception that people they consider 'rich' had actually worked for their money

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Perhaps a longer version of my 'tag' is appropriate:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst

    Are full of passionate intensity.

It is 'The Second Coming' by Yeats

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That's exactly it RH, when people become "rich" as they have worked very hard and deserve it, others who have sat doing nothing resent it and are jealous.

Of course many have a difficult time in life, but a thing which always makes us smile here in France when there is trouble in the suburbs, etc. is the view of the buildings where these "poor people" have to live and the number of satellite dishes on all the balconies!  If they are sometimes interviewed inside these flats about there dreadful situation, one can often see a large TV screen and a chaine hifi in the background.

 

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