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water pipes frozen how to reduce risk of burst?


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We still have the upstairs bathrooms with no water (since Monday)......all pipes are lagged but perhaps where there is a Y joint hidden might be where the problem is. Just to reduce the risk of a burst would u agree we have done the correct thing. Simply we have turned the water off ( water stop is in front of where we think its frozen)and opened all taps upstairs so if it expands when it thaws out it will have somewhere to release the pressure. Down stairs water is OK. Thank you.
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It's not the thawing out that causes the burst it is the initial freeze - water expands on freezing.  The worst thing is constant thaw and freeze where the expansion cycle happens over and over again.  So if you get the pipe thawed don't let it refreeze - if you know it will refreeze, don't thaw it!  Certainly close the supply to the affected area - if there is a burst that shows up when the ice melts then you only have the small quantity of water in the pipe to worry about.

Lagging only slows the rate at which water in pipes cools then freezes so it's helpful for short periods of freezing - in the current longer freeze the surrounding area temperature needs to be at or above 0 degrees.  Similarly when the temp rises it will take a lagged pipe longer to thaw.

Water is a strange fluid - it releases a lot of energy when it freezes (which is why it takes a good while to freeze) but then needs a lot of energy to thaw (this is the latent heat of water). 

So the simple answer is yes, turn off the source.  When the pipes are thawed turn the water on and check for leaks.

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I live in deux sèvres not far from the atlantic coast; I have lived in france since 1996; this is the coldest winter period but not the coldest winter since that date; it is the first time the river has completely frozen over; it is the first time an underground water main has "exploded" in the village. The thaw here will start slowly next monday but by wednesday it should be absolute carnage with serious damage to properties that have been unoccupied during the cold snap. Fortunately it has been fairly dry with sunshine frequently during the day.
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[quote user="milkeybar kid"]We still have the upstairs bathrooms with no water (since Monday)......all pipes are lagged but perhaps where there is a Y joint hidden might be where the problem is. Just to reduce the risk of a burst would u agree we have done the correct thing. Simply we have turned the water off ( water stop is in front of where we think its frozen)and opened all taps upstairs so if it expands when it thaws out it will have somewhere to release the pressure. Down stairs water is OK. Thank you.[/quote]

Consider a heat tape, very low energy, self regulating and not too expensive. Of course you haven't described where the pipe run is and if insulation is the best thing, as it prevents the warmth of your building from keeping the pipes from freezing in the first place and won't prevent a freeze anyway.

Heat tape

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Whilst we've grumbled a bit about the cold weather, I think we're so lucky to have only dipped to sub zero temperatures at night, with lovely sunny days to warm everything up each day - but then, we're only about 450 metres to the sea, so it's surprising it's been freezing at all.

I hope that those of you who are snowed in or without water start to thaw out soon (and that the cold dousn't return this winter!)

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Thank you, very interesting. Since my post the flippin radiator in a room in the North side of the house (summer rooms only) have burst some time today, our own fault possible as we have tried to be economic with the oil fired central heating and only have allowed it to come on for 1hr in a morning in the whole of the house . The kitchen come living room has a fab woodburner which also keeps the bedroom warm upstairs. So false economy has cost us.Never too old to learn!
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Yes I think that must be the very smelly chemical substance that was in the water (it was black) that spread over the floor after the burst. In the past we had a radiator seep and again there was that horrible smell in the water . We have had the house for 12 years and never changed the water in the system or added more anti corrosion to it when we have topped up the water in the central heating. Perhaps it needs a total blow through so it empties all yuk out of the radiators and pipes and new anti corrosion and antifreeze put in. Does that sound like the sort of maintenance that should happen? Do u think this sounds a good idea? Always been a believer in "if its not broke dont fix it" but its looking like lack of essential maintenance has caused the problem!!Thank you.
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I would flush it and refill the system, about 10 years is about right for a change. You need to know how much water you have in the system so once the leaks are fixed and the system is functioning again you can do the flush and change. When you empty the system the first time you need to use a bucket or a container that you know the capacity of, if you can get hold of a used 25L container even better. Once you have opened the drain valve which should be at the lowest pint of the system you will then have to also open the bleed valve at the highest and furthest away radiator to get all the water out. Don't forget to write down the capacity once it's empty, an indelible marker perhaps and write it on the side of the boiler?

Once you know the capacity you can then flush, empty and refill with an inhibitor and antifreeze. My dad always used Fernox so I have to, it's been around for years and combines inhibitor and antifreeze in one product. A mix of 25% Fernox to water will protect to -11 deg C, if you want to go lower then 30% will protect down to -18 deg. They also sell devices to help you refill the system. If you have any work done don't forget to add a little extra to make up for the loss. You can buy it in the UK and I suspect you can buy it in France as well. Below is a link to the manufacturers product sheet.

http://www.fernox-products.sk/produkty/products_getfile/7/56

I know it seems a bit expensive but consider the time period then it probably cost about £10 per year plus it also has some type of lubricant which is good for the pump, valves etc and helps them last longer. It also claims to reduce the calcium in the system if you get a lot of that in your area. Plus of course no burst radiator pipes in the future.

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Use a hairdryer...

In the UK, when we had a frozen pipe, the heating engineer used a hairdryer gently.

So in France this week, when our outside loo froze - the toilet pan water and the cistern - we gently applied a hairdryer and it worked.  It thawed without cracking.

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Kitty, it's the act of freezing which can crack pipes and fittings by expansion. Thawing can only ever reduce that so if it hasn't cracked already then thawing will not make it.

Sometimes people think thawing is what's caused a crack simply because that is when it starts to leak but of course what has really happened is that the formation of ice has done the cracking and when you come along with your hairdryer or whatever and thaw it it melts and water starts to pour out.

In a cold snap like this it's when the thaw starts that the problems really start.

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Heard the dreaded running water yesterday and found one of the outside taps gushing.

It wouldn't turn off so a dash to the stop-c ock followed by a quick dismantle and found the silly little rubber washer split. Found a new spare tap whilst searching for a washer so that got fitted.

I'm guessing that this scenario is going to happen all over France.
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[quote user="Bugsy"]   I'm guessing that this scenario is going to happen all over France.[/quote]

Well certainly chez moi.  At 8.00 last night I heard gushing water and the pipe into my new bathroom had burst flooding my new bedroom and flooding into the kitchen below.  I 'declared my sinistre' this morning and have permission to remove the bedroom carpet (two years old), send in the factures and devis and they will take care of it. The carpet is jonc de mer which apparently likes humidity[Www]

At moments like this it's not very interesting to live alone[:(]

 

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