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Sucking up to the Mairie


Angie
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I am feeling very angry today!! 

Since purchasing our plot of land some 2 years ago and going through all the right channels and doing everything "absolutely by the book" we have had nothing but aggravation from our Mairie.  We visited him prior to putting in a planning appliation, spoke throughout the meeting to him in our pigeon French, made the effort to keep him up to speed on our plans for the land, paid all his invoices as and when required and been really as co-operative and as friendly as we possible could - even to the point of sending Christmas cards.  He has done nothing but put obstacles in our way, never replies to queries either from us or the local planning office until "forced to", despite making appointments to see him well in advance he is suddenly "unavailable" and we then have to speak to someone else in the office whose advice he then rejects and says we "should have spoken to him", plus a host of other incidences and delaying tactics. 

 

However, the latest stunt he has pulled has really aggravated us.  We have had to pay almost 20,000 euros to have a sewerage system/water/electric/phone connected to our site (having paid nearly 1,000 additional euros to the commune for the privilege) - the work being completed last week.  When we purchased the plot we were told that all services (branchements) had to be connected to the property in the middle of our land (fine with us).  However, on the CU, the Mairie insisted that this be changed to the edge of the plot located between 2 houses.  Before starting, our (French) builder went back to the Mairie's office to check that this small piece of land (which he had to cross) did not belong to anyone - he said "no".  However, just to check, our builder spoke to the neighbours who confirmed what the Mairie had said, that it was communal land and they did not have a problem with the proposed work. 

 

A month later, we have been informed by our builder that both these neighbours now want financial compensation as our branchements cross their land - in the sum of 5,000 euros each - but to add insult to injury we have now discovered that both these people are related to the Mairie (one is his brother in law).  Our builder has tackled the Mairie about this and his comment was "it wasn't his responsibilty".  To his credit, our builder has insisted we do not pay money to these people and is moving the whole system to its correct location free of charge.

 

Sorry for the long email but my point is.....as livid as I am, how long do we have to suck up to these people before making complete fools of ourselves.  I feel like going to the Mairie and giving him a piece of my mind, but to what end?  Am I going to make a rod for my own back for the future?  It has incensed us so much that we are now considering selling the land and moving on. Although from what I read on the Forum the Mairie is someone to keep in with, surely he can't treat us like this?
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Cor I can feel your anger though my laptop, its warming my feet[:)] opps no thats my battery.

Afraid I cant give you any advise but doI feel for you, actully i do have a little bit of advise, Dont let the buggars get you down...................

In a few years when your house is built and you and the mairie are on the terrace having a glass of wine you will both laugh about it...............

I have tried emailing the mairie to introduce us to him, as we are currently buying a house, but we have had no reply, now either my french was so bad he was insulted or hes just rude and isnt interested in english people moving into his village. I only did it because my brother told me to, he gets on let a house unfire with his in his village, but then he always takes a bottle of wine with him when he goes to see him (maybe thats where you are going wrong) dont let him see you are upset, keep smiling at him and take him a bottle it may works wonders 

Hope things get better for you soon, and dont give anyone any money till there a lawyers letter................

keep us posted 

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Firstly, don't ever let the Maire get to you, many can be dodgy (I have put it nice and mildly), that's just how it can be. Personally I have never ever sucked up to our Maire, wherever we have lived.

We have never subscribed to blatant bribery in the way of giving

him/her anything. Would one go in to the local gendarmerie and give

them a little something ? (I know what I would like to give

them sometimes !). It really does look like a "backhander". Sure, you

have read that so and so went in and gave a bottle of this or that and

now all is lovely. Well, he was either going to be OK or not, offering

anything is not the way to go.

Edit...Pads posted around the same time and this is not a direct post against what Pads put

We have come across a couple of blatantly rogueish Maires. One many years ago, somehow

gained all the work in the commune...the man got voted out after his

second period. We went along some while before the next election

and got registered to vote, the secretary gave us a bit of a hard time,

so we went in with our neighbour, not for language help but to act as a

witness, received the vote, eventually and from that day until his

demise, he spoke quite nicely to us, if ever our paths crossed !!

I would ignore him as much as possible, if you have reason to see him,

speak politely and probably in the same style as him. Smile whilst

putting your point quite strongly. You may find he has been like this

with other folks as well, time will tell you what the Maire is really

like.

Ours promised us new tarmac leading to our drive from the communal

road, never did it, so at this years Fete, I shall wait until he has

had a few drinks and put it to him, oh so nicely, that he has obviously

forgotten his promise, I understand he is a busy man, so I shall hope

to see it done very soon. Will that work ? No idea but  it will be

done in front of local friends and witnesses !!

Good luck and don't let the Maire get you down.

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Quote - Pads: I have tried emailing the mairie to introduce us to him, as we are currently buying a house, but we have had no reply

___________________

It's really common for emails to seemingly be ignored in France - as if they haven't really taken to email. Some people reply, some never reply, and some reply after about a month (or more, when you've forgotten the point of contacting them in the first place! ;-) ).
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[quote user="bevvy"]

 how long do we have to suck up to these people before making complete fools of ourselves.  [/quote]

 

You should not have to suck up to anybody!   From now on, look after yourself and your own interests, just like he's looking after his.

 

Bottle of wine for the maire, eh?  Apple for the teacher, really.  They don't all work like that.  Ours certainly doesn't, and I wouldn't like it if he did.   Why?  Because I agree with a French lady who lives and works in Manchester who said one reason she wouldn't come back to France is because corruption is so rife, at all levels.  It's not democracy, she said, it's une honte!  AND the best way to keep in with these people is to be right-wing, which also didn't please her.

 

I hope you get it sorted out.
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Our Maire caused a lot of problems for us when we first arrived , over

things that concerned one of our neighbours, who I thought must be from

an influential family in the village. We avoid him whenever possible,

but there's been another incident lately when our other neighbours

became involved - on our side - and we " won" , for the moment. We

later found that the troublesome neighbour is a councillor and the

Maire is afraid to upset her. But as others have said we wouldn't dream

of sucking up to him, especially now we know what a wimp he is. He

likes his position and wants to be re-elected. If you don't think the

charges are right you should perhaps ask advice. Good luck - Pat.

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When we need to see the maire we go to see him, and then we speak to his secretary because she is the one who gets things done, shows him where to look for forms, corrects him etc.

We never 'sucked up' - we treated him with due respect (and the secretary with total respect) and we got things sorted in a businesslike fashion. No question of 'gifts' - I think that would have led to a bemused look and total suspicion.

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Hello Bevvy

Please dont think for one minute, I was asking you to bribe your Mairie, I meant take a bottle along to drink with him, I always find people more agreeable after half a bottle (dont you?)

Hope you get it all sorted soon , these nieghbours are problly pulling his strings as they get to vote for him. and he knows it

take care  

 

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I have dealt with two Mairie's and found in both cases the secretairy was the one to see even to the point of going when you know the Mairie is out, it's the seretairy that runs the office as far as I can see
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In 6 years we've never had cause to see the Maire personally.    Which is possibly why I can't imagine wandering in and offering him a bottle, it would be a decidedly bizarre thing to do!

When you go into the Mairie the secretary is behind the reception desk, and it's her who deals with everything. 

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You need to get EVERYTHING  in writing.  Pay a translator if need be. I would also expect any requests from the Maire in relation to official matters to be made in writing too. That way every one is covered and less can get lost in translation.

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When we bought our "challenge" I met the mayor, with the vendor, for his signature on the transfer of p de c document. Other than that I don't think that he has even been in his office on the 6 or 8 occasions I have been to the Mairie. Mme., the real power behind the throne, deals with everything other than signing official docs. as SB says.

John

not

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[quote user="AVIV"]

You need to get EVERYTHING  in writing.  Pay a translator if need be. I would also expect any requests from the Maire in relation to official matters to be made in writing too. That way every one is covered and less can get lost in translation.

[/quote]

On another subject.

Λεπτός θα σταθώ ακριβώς στη γωνία

Ναι. Αλλά ποια γωνία.

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Why do people insist on calling le maire, le mairie which is the building? Speaking from the other side of the argument, gifts are not usual in any form or shape and they and we are not allowed to accept anything that could be constued as payment or a bribe. The maire is a democratically elected government official who receives a small salary for his time and work and the public are not obliged to pay for his help which usually comes via the secretariat/rédactress anyway as most mayors are working people only on duty a few hours per week intheir office at the mairie.
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Thanks to everyone for their messages of support - it certainly doesn't appear that I am alone in experiencing this type of thing (in varying degrees). During our dealings with the Mairie the only opportunity we have had to "pull one over on them" is when we discovered that, following our purchase of the land, someone at the office was receiving an EU subsidy as they claimed they had been renting the land from us for grazing - we contacted our French lawyer who fired off a letter instructing them to "come clean with the authorities" and pay back any money received.  The person concerned had egg on her face when we next visited and scuttled off as soon as we arrived at the office!   As for inviting the Mairie for a drink on my newly built terrace, he is currently at the bottom of my list but as you say, hopefully (if and when) we do get our house built it will all seem a distant memory and we can laugh at it!
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  • 3 weeks later...
Further to my original post, we have now been in contact with a local (English) estate agent who lives in the same village as our plot of land.  His advice was:  If the CU and the permis de construire state that access should be across a certain piece of the land (regardless of who it belongs to) then we have the right to leave our pipework where it is (it is to be buried anyway). The village we are in is tiny, so I would have thought that the neighbours concerned (they are both French residents) would have noticed this and objected a long time ago to the planning application, rather than wait until the work was completed.

 

We are more than happy to change the driveway access to where it should have been originally so this will not be a problem, but from an inconvenience point of view we would like to leave the branchements (including the sewer pipe) where it is.  Does anyone know whether this advice is correct? 
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  • 3 weeks later...
We feel for you.We dont suck up or prescribe to the "aperitif" custom which seems to be so common.I dont drink early in the day myself so aint goin to start now especially if bribery or corruption is required.Personally,I have found that politeness,certainly courtecy and local tradition certainly helps, but morover perseverence to the Nth degree.Try faxes or hand written letter(but keep copy). On another tack,where are the so called internet cafes.Its easier in outer Mongolia,Morrocco,Uzbekistan to find one than in France.Obviously not invented by a Frenchman.Nuff said!!    Maude
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Sucking up to the Mairie.....back handers ..etc  all this talk of them being on the make..........where does it get them.?  where did it get that dodgy guy who used to be Mayor of Paris ......oh yes .. I remember .....bigger desk now... bigger office ..in  a bigger building  and planning to stay there .  
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The Maire wields considerable, occasionally flexible, and indefinable powers. Not always in complete accord with the laws of the land, it may seem.

No, it is not recommended to get on his/her bad side, but then conflict with any official body in one's adoptive country is likely to prove to be counterproductive, particularly in France where there's a rather special psychology at work.. If one accepts that we are guests, foreigners, who often make rather limited attempts to integrate into a French way of life, we start with a handicap whenever we tackle the authorities - even if we are in the right. I might even have said especially if we are in the right.

Customer service is not a strong point in France. Complain to a shop assistant, and he/she may well take it personally, whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation. Complaints have to be worded carefully, or they will be perceived as a criticism of the individual rather than the product or service. Need advice on a particular issue? Be very careful indeed. Telephone the local tax office for some information, but accept the answers of your first correspondent at your peril. If your questions are the least bit obscure or complicated, make sure you put them to more than one person - preferably several. Why? Because the same psychology is at work. Unlike in the UK where it is hard to get answers to awkward questions, your correspondent usually passing the buck upstairs rather than risking a mistake, in France not being able to give an answer is somehow perceived to diminish the employee concerned. So the result is that you will often get your answer, however correct or incorrect it might be. Always double or treble check, especially information given over the phone.

No, I'm not advocating rolling over and giving in, far from it. But outright conflicts can be avoided with a little subtle psychology from the outset, combined with knowledge of the above, how the system works, and great attention to detail. Never proceed with work such as mentioned in the original post without checking and conforming to all the procedures, and confirmation in writing from all the parties involved. Locals can, and do, occasionally get away with it - but we are étrangers... and that's another kettle of fish.

Involvement in the local French community helps, by the way. Easier said than done if you are not yet fluent in French, but my experience is that voluntary contributions to the local way of life (not the purely Anglophone one) go a long way to bridging the gap between the communities.The UK and France are not that dissimilar, in one way at least. It's who you know....

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No disrespect to Wedderburn, in fact, it is good to read that someone

understands, obviously through personal experience, how it all works

here but some of us, have for years, said the very same thing but I do

think Wedderburn was right to reiterate it all again, especially the

part about taking the word of the first fonctionnaire one meets !

.

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