Front National strongholds, - coincidence?

[Chancer]

Marine Le pen got 27% of the vote in my village against an average for the departement of 23%, nonetheless she was in second place, I am the only english person amongst a commune of 1300 habitants and there is only one other etranger listed, despite this everyone is convinced that the English are driving up house prices, taking French jobs etc.

There are other villages that are real concentrations for the English, some are veritable ghettos, in one case the previous maires BIL was a builder and the Maire welcomed English purchasers with open arms, the lotissements of pavilions have a high proportion of English many second homes and there have been regular spates of burglaries targetted at these houses.

On a hunch I checked the results of the election premier tour for thes communes and in every case the Front national had won often by a landslide, 37% in the most british of the enclaves.

There follows a lot of generalisation on my part and I apologise in advance to anyone who is an exception, generally in these communes the British dont speak any French, own the biggest newest houses and are often grouped together, especially on the lotissments, most are early retired and operate bed and breakfast (written on their signs) for english tourists, the driveways are usually occupied expensive UK registered vehicles, their neighbours owning similar houses are usually middle class and speak reasonable English.

In the early days whenever I was in the company of these people and their neighbours I thought that their existence was idyllic compared to mine and I was quite jealous, thinking i had really chosen a bad area, now my French is a lot better and I have met the indigenous people from these communes I realise just how much resentment there actually is even towards myself and I have to try hard to overcome it, sometimes it is impossible, some of their complaints are not simply jealousy and I have some empathy with them, the commune paying to translate and print the newsletter into English for example.

If you have the time or the interest check out some of the results around where you live if you have similar communities, it might be revealing, in my case I now realise that I chose the better place to live in view of what the political future of France may hold.

[Patf]

I wonder how the NF did in places like Dordogneshire?

For those who read the Bible (or not) there's a story about the Hebrews who went to live in Egypt when there was a famine. They started off as 70 and were well accepted, but as they became numerous the Egyptians turned against them. Made them into slaves, killed off the boy babies etc.

It's human nature, partly fear of being over-run, (imho.)

I wouldn't like to live in a part of France with a big UK population.

[Quillan]

One of my French friends popped in this morning (would Mrs Q like to go to his wife's Tupperware Party!). So I plucked up my courage to ask him direct why so many of the people, including him, in our village voted FN. He said because of the immigrants getting money from the state and taking jobs which seemed a bit contradictory to me. I pointed out that I was an immigrant and he said that it's immigrants from the south they object to and more specifically those that were not white. I told him that back in the UK I personally didn't have a problem with immigrants providing they worked and paid their tax's etc and whilst he agreed he said many in the village did not and that all coloured immigrants were bad. Strange thing is we have one Muslim chap from Morocco (via Holland, married to a Dutch girl) in the village and he works as does his wife. So it's not as if our village is over run by coloured immigrants. Strange lot the French but I suspect they say the same about us who incidentally, like other north European immigrants are OK apparently.

[powerdesal]

''....everyone is convinced that the English are driving up house prices, taking French jobs etc.''

This attitude happens in various places, not just France. Wales was / is a classic in that respect.

It's a great pity that the ''locals'' who tend to take this attitude do not seem to realise that selling price of a house is set by the seller, not the buyer. Those ( in Wales ) who complain bitterly that the local young couples cannot afford to buy houses locally are, quite often, the very people who are setting the selling price of the property, thus pricing their own 'local young couples' out of the market. Obviously it is easier ( and more profitable ) to sell to an 'incomer' at a high price and then complain about the incomer buying whilst en-route to the bank to pay in the money.

How much more 'community spirited' it would be to spread the word locally that you are prepared to sell a property to a local couple for 'X' pounds / euros - of course you don't make as much profit that way, and as we all know, money talks !

It's an attitude that really annoys me.

[Quillan]

[quote user="powerdesal"]''....everyone is convinced that the English are driving up house prices, taking French jobs etc.'' [/quote]

Don't know about job's, haven't heard that one before but if I had a Euro for every time I heard about the English driving house prices up I would be a rich man.

I remember about five years ago I had a disagreement with a chap in our local bar. I pointed out that it's the seller that sets the price and the buyer tries to negotiate the price down if they can. He went off in a 'paddy' yet about a year later he put his house up for sale and asked me when passing if I knew any English that might be interested. Unfortunately I didn't, and still don't, know what the equivalent of 'on your bike' is in French. [:D]

[YCCMB]

My commune got a fair-ish Le Pen vote, but nothing outstanding. I know quite a few of the French people in our village who have said, unprompted, that they're glad that the English who live in the area are there..without them, some - at least - of the local businesses would not have survived. They do admit, though, that their views may not be representative!

It's about 8 Km, as the crow flies, to the nearest Maghrebin around me. I think in total we have two or three within a 10 Km radius, and trust me, we've had the "how big an effect is the burka ban going to have round here?" discussion, and that's what it came down to!

As for the house price chestnut...every time I've had that one levelled at "us", I've just asked the person concerned how many French house sellers they've come across who have said they'd rather sell at a lower price to a French person, or indeed how many Brits/Dutch/Germans they've met who have begged to pay above the asking price, and the silence has been deafening.

[Gardian]

[quote user="Chancer"]

On a hunch I checked the results of the election premier tour for thes communes and in every case the Front national had won often by a landslide, 37% in the most british of the enclaves.

[/quote]

Not so down here, in the only Departement where the FN gained the greatest number of votes.

I would emphasise that what I am about to say is perception, but the Communes that I have some knowledge of (in terms of expat British, Swiss, Belgians etc) voted almost entirely UMP majority-wise. In some cases, the FN vote was well below the Departement %. 

[Chancer]

I checked out Eymet and it disproved my theory, the results were exactly as you said!

[breizh]

The FN seem to have done well across the Med coast and the unemployable Nord. Very pretty and easy to use map........by Dept, and commune. If you live in Gard, chances are your neighbors are slightly to the right of Genghis Khan.

http://fr2012.election-maps.appspot.com/results/embed?hl=fr

I've said it before about the xenophobia, and open racism, of French people. MiL is a UMP maire, previously Gaullist. Some of things she says, and the rest of the family, would get you locked up in some other countries. Also, when we're doing the mad supermarket dash for the week, we talk English between us. I never pick up the snide remarks from other shoppers, though my French is very good, but my wife has gone ballistic at some comments, when people are not realising one of us is a native. Ears like GCHQ, and a 100% command of her native language, leads to some rather fruity exchanges! As I said, I don't pick up the remarks, and I doubt any non-native would...............the locals are talking behind your backs about you!!

[NormanH]

They talk openly in front of me, because they assume as an English person I will be automatically Thatcherite.[:P]

On another thread I asked for a translation of some phrases which show the degree to which it can be hard to catch colloquial French when it is wrapped up in references

Bcp de jacouille-la-fripouille, de saltimbanques dégénérés, de gueux

avinés et enormément de sarrazins.

I agree about the endemic racism. An element that has not been mentioned here is the correlation between FN vote and the number of 'pieds noirs' in an town.

That certainly accounts for a considerable proportion of the vote here (36%) whereas at Montpellier where there far  more "Anglo-Saxon" people the vote is much lower, skewed by the fact that being a University town with an ancient medical faculty it is also much more open to the world.

[breizh]

Must admit we live a prodominantly muslim area, and as far as I know I am the only Brit. It's a commuter town for Paris, so not standard Brit property owning terrority!! We voted for Melanchon, though my dearly bewildered voted for Hollande...............and will again. Being a typical Brit, I have tried to explain the the financial mess that is France, and he's going to just bring the train crash forward.

Old joke about building the Channel Tunnel. Mitterrand said "Great idea. Let's do it". Thatcher said "Great idea. How much will it cost?". Neatly sums up why the Brits will never understand the French!

I gave up on colloquial French. I will never get the culural, historically, media references. Colouse completely passed under my radar. Just as DB will never get English references. I doubt she will ever be able to use fill up/fill in/fill out in the right context. She just picks at random................"I'm just going to fill out the car with petrol"............always makes me smile. (Though the 'Allo Allo accent does grate after all these years.)

 

[NickP]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Marine Le pen got 27% of the vote in my village against an average for the departement of 23%, nonetheless she was in second place, I am the only english person amongst a commune of 1300 habitants and there is only one other etranger listed, despite this everyone is convinced that the English are driving up house prices, taking French jobs etc.

[/quote]

 

Ask them about the amount of French living and working in Frances 5th largest "French" city, London. Having been "only a holiday home owner" for some years in my part of the Loir et Cher; I have yet to come across any resentment or opposition to Brits from the French, any resentment and bitchiness comes from self described integrated Brits.[:D] But as someone else mentioned, I hear from the locals about other immigrants, mainly from the African continent who they do not welcome, sounds a bit like Crawley High St Chancer. I think like in all countries these discussions tend to arise around election time, and after the elections the fascists crawl back under their stones till the next lot of posters go up on the notice board.

[idun]

I only once heard anti british sentiment, vehemence actually and that was my first night in hospital  in 2006. An old lady was telling the others, yes, there was more than two in the room that night that they should never sell to the anglais. She said no disrespect, and it was not addressed at me.

And for all I would speak english when out with my children, husband and the odd english speaking friend, we could all hear and understand what was being said, and it was never directed at us.

The geo politics in France are interesting. Some regions who vote for Le Pen have few immigrants and it seems to be 'fear' that motivates their vote, that is how I see it.

It took me years to get around the politics of my old village. From the little band of hard core faschos, and my kids may have had a few problems with their kids, to those who made their  vote in the first round  ; a protest vote, by voting Le Pen and being shocked in 2002 when he was in the 2nd round.

I was once told that I wasn't a forrener but an anglaise once, as it there was some difference in the two, which escapes me completely.

 

I have been trying to explain to a few friends and family members who have asked what it is all about. And I have told them how I see things, BUT, I could be way off the mark.......... it will be interesting on Sunday.

[NormanH]

NickP:

The point about holiday home owners is that  by definition they don't live and work here full-time , so don't hear the discussions around the coffee machine in the workplace, or the canteen, or possibly don't follow the intricacies of discussion in the local café. In many cases (not all)  their French isn't fluent and they don't watch the News or current affairs programmes every day,  so in contrast to Chancer they may not pick up so much of what is being talked about.

They are not 'only' a second-home owners in a derogatory sense, but there are natural limitations to what they experience, especially in a country community.

[Quillan]

[quote user="breizh"]

Old joke about building the Channel Tunnel. Mitterrand said "Great idea. Let's do it". Thatcher said "Great idea. How much will it cost?". Neatly sums up why the Brits will never understand the French!

[/quote]

I remember years ago an English comedian (might have been Ken Dodd) said about the Channel Tunnel something along the lines of "well at least it's down hill, so if it does not work we can use it as a sewer".

To be honest I have always thought France to be very racist towards people of colour. I always remember the 'jaw dropping' that happened when people round here met my daughter for the first time what with her being of mixed race. It's not just the colour either, they seems to think coloured people are less intelligent than whites. Somebody we know from Paris that married a local chap (both of whom seem to be really nice people until this happened) mentioned that we might try and 'pair off' my daughter with her brother. Her brother had a very good job, he was a bus driver in Paris. I was tempted to say that my daughter probably earns more in a week than he would in a year but I didn't, I just said she was married to her job in London. I have not stopped speaking to the woman but have drastically reduced my conversations with her. I was, at the time, extremely angry.

[Chancer]

I do hope that I have misinterpreted what you wrote Quillan and that you dont mean that the sugesstion of your daughter marrying a bus driver (which is a good job)  made you angry, had you said he was a nasty selfish piece of work for instance I could have understood.

Or was perhaps the inference that, she being coloured, should jump at the chance of such a prize? 

Editted. OK I think I understand, it was the suggestion that you should want to "marry off" your daughter who sounds like she is more than capable of making the best choice herself or continuing a successfull single life.

Whenever I hear se marier used it always sounds to me that the people are marrying off their son/daughter, like an arranged marriage and I think there is a strong element of that, I have had people tell me how dissapointed they are with their sons and daughters because they have not married and/or resisted their attempts to par them off even though they were quite sucessfull and independant in their own right like your daughter sounds to be.

I find that myself being single am an anathema (spelling?) to them and they are constantly searching for something they can relate to, I am divorced, widowed, gay, have spent my life in prison or a monastery etc, anything rather than understand that I choose to live the life I do unlike them.

[idun]

A friend of mine, Marlene, now sadly deceased, was from Martinique and a black lady. She was married to a white french man and her kids were brown. Her son is one of the faschos in our village, very very right wing. In fact one of his french fascho friends from the village has skin even darker than his, even though they are apparently a 'white' french family.

 I often wonder if push came to shove, just how 'welcome' he would be if the far right ever got in, with his afro features, where as the 'dark white' people have european features.

 

I suppose that this skin colour and master race thing is shown in all it's stupidity when you see the poor souls who were the lebensborn. Most seem to  have grown up to be very ordinary and there are some who look like rather 'poor' specimens of northern europeans....... master race and god like they are not.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Chancer"]

I do hope that I have misinterpreted what you wrote Quillan and that you dont mean that the sugesstion of your daughter marrying a bus driver (which is a good job)  made you angry, had you said he was a nasty selfish piece of work for instance I could have understood.

Or was perhaps the inference that, she being coloured, should jump at the chance of such a prize? 

Editted. OK I think I understand, it was the suggestion that you should want to "marry off" your daughter who sounds like she is more than capable of making the best choice herself or continuing a successfull single life.

Whenever I hear se marier used it always sounds to me that the people are marrying off their son/daughter, like an arranged marriage and I think there is a strong element of that, I have had people tell me how dissapointed they are with their sons and daughters because they have not married and/or resisted their attempts to par them off even though they were quite sucessfull and independant in their own right like your daughter sounds to be.

I find that myself being single am an anathema (spelling?) to them and they are constantly searching for something they can relate to, I am divorced, widowed, gay, have spent my life in prison or a monastery etc, anything rather than understand that I choose to live the life I do unlike them.

[/quote]

It was put in the way that being a girl and of mixed race that her brother was a pretty good catch and if she could get him she should be eternally grateful type attitude.

I never seriously demean anyone's job from the toilet cleaner upwards, they all do important jobs. I remember another lad at our school who was on a bursary the same as me but his dad was a dustman (as they were called at the time) and our history teacher caught the other lads taking the p*ss out of him. The history teacher sat us all down and gave us a 'life lesson' on how important each persons job was starting with the toilet cleaner. An excellent lesson which I passed on to my daughter.

[NickP]

[quote user="NormanH"]NickP:
The point about holiday home owners is that  by definition they don't live and work here full-time , so don't hear the discussions around the coffee machine in the workplace, or the canteen, or possibly don't follow the intricacies of discussion in the local café. In many cases (not all)  their French isn't fluent and they don't watch the News or current affairs programmes every day,  so in contrast to Chancer they may not pick up so much of what is being talked about.
They are not 'only' a second-home owners in a derogatory sense, but there are natural limitations to what they experience, especially in a country community.

[/quote]

Norman I don't get to hear the discussion around the coffee machine in England as I don't go to work, but I'm still very much aware of what local opinion is on a variety of subjects, so why should that be different in France. Once again you have fallen into the trap that because you live/exist here full time you are more aware of what people think. Sorry mate; residence here is not the criteria for knowledge of French opinion. Also you should realise that  racism isn't always verbal more often than not it's attitude, and that vibe is very easy to detect.

[pachapapa]

The first topic on Envoyé Special on thursday dealt with the rise of the FN in le loiret.

The report includes the reaction of an "interesting family" after watching the debate on the previous evening.

This particular part begins at around 24 minutes on the time line with the final opinion of the young garden equipment mechanic.

The rmi-iste family commences with their visit to the restos to pick up provisions; the congolese girl is the sister in law of the the main speaker.

The whole report is worth watching though.

http://www.pluzz.fr/envoye-special.html

 

[5-element]

I second that.

The programme is really worth watching: it challenges the stereotypes about who are the NF voters.

In the Loiret family above, the Congolese sister-in-law cannot vote as she is not French, but she nods in agreement with the rest of the family about their views, although she states her awareness that if the NF was in power, it is quite possible she would be "sent back" to Congo, as she has been chômeuse for a year. The matriarch of the family defends the fact that they are Restos du Coeur beneficiaries and RMIstes as they are in exceptional circumstances,  something that they can't help, unlike the majority of other "assistés". It is riveting, they really believe they are special cases, and that the others are just layabouts, and have to be stopped. [:'(]

[NormanH]

I have just watched it too.  As you both say it is fascinating to see the way their opinions have been formed.

Striking that many who voted for le Pen have most to lose if Sarkozy wins...

However there was no need for  for the programme makers to interview to these  people since 'residence here is not the criteria  (or even criterion [:)])for knowledge of French opinion.'

All they needed to do was  ask holiday home owners...