'The best places to retire abroad'

[Sprogster]

In today's Daily Telegraph there is another of these survey articles researched by an insurance company to identify 'The best places to retire abroad'. Factors taken into account included house prices, health care costs, average temperatures, rainfall and hours of sunshine, grocery bills, crime rates and taxation.

They are as follows:

1) Malta

2) Portugal

3) Spain

4) Barbados

5) United States

6) Australia

7) Thailand

8) Jamaica

9) Morocco

10) Greece

No explanation of the obvious missing country, but France is expensive by comparison and being the most northern country presumably would get low points for weather.

[NormanH]

The question that always comes up for people coming to France is health care.

I imagine the costs of that in the US for example would be prohibitive, and the quality in some other places dubious.

[YCCMB]

If you compare that list of places with their ranking in the WHO healthcare table, I don't think any of them could be described as"dubious".

Certainly, the majority rank well above the USA....

I have a friend currently back in the UK after living for over a year in Thailand. During all that time he was continuing his treatment regime for lung cancer and couldn't have been more fulsome in his praise for the care and treatment he received. He has only come back because he was reaching a point and stage in his treatment where he risked not being able to return at all if he didn't fly back whilst still able to do so.

[NormanH]

I am not sure that the WHO table reflects the current situation.(The data is pre-2000, before the introduction of the CMU in France in fact. )  I would be surprised of the current budgetary crisis in Greece, Portugal and Spain hadn't had some impact on their care systems.

This article makes an interesting challenge to it, even allowing for the source.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125608054324397621.html

I think that it is also about a mixture of things, not just quality as is sometimes supposed.

A specimen quotation about the element which focusses on cost rather than quality

'Dominica, Costa Rica and Morocco ranked 42nd, 45th and 94th before

adjusting for spending levels, compared to the U.S.'s No. 15 ranking.

After adjustment, all three countries ranked higher than the U.S.

Still, people often claim that the 37th-place ranking refers to

quality or outcomes. High spending rates pushed the ranking down but

didn't degrade the quality of care'

[YCCMB]

Sure, but let's face it, any question about the focus on cost rather than quality could be applied to almost any of the countries on the list, not least of all France.

I've actually received medical treatment in Morocco, and was impressed. However, of those originally listed, I think it's probably the only one where my original comment about their overall position doesn't hold true.

Given some of the nightmare stories about people who retire to places as close as Spain without making the most rudimentary inquiries about the legality or security of their property purchases, I'd be surprised if healthcare is, indeed, such a high priority in the decision-making process when people retire abroad. I think a fair number simply factor in the potential cost of flying back to Blighty for a spot of reverse health tourism on the NHS.[:D]

[Chancer]

Hasnt something recently happened in Spain toughening up on the inactif Brits accessing the health system?

[Alex H]

[quote user="Sprogster"]1) Malta [/quote]

An island of 95 square miles and "It is also one of the most densely populated countries worldwide." (Source)

No Thank You [:)]

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="NormanH"]I am not sure that the WHO table reflects the current situation.(The data is pre-2000, before the introduction of the CMU in France in fact. )  I would be surprised of the current budgetary crisis in Greece, Portugal and Spain hadn't had some impact on their care systems.

 ....

I think that it is also about a mixture of things, not just quality as is sometimes supposed.

...

[/quote]

I think that you make some important points here, Norman.

The original WHO report was based on a questionnaire sent out to member countries in, I think, 1999. It can hardly be used to make judgements about the current situation.

Also, as you infer, it was not about clinical competency. I have met several people - and there are some contributing to this forum - who seem to believe that French doctors are somehow more competent, that French hospitals offer better clinical care than their British equivalents and have moved to France because they misunderstood the content of this report - or trusted the accuracy of blue-top headlines.

Health care, and its cost, should be part of the equation determining desired place of residence but there are many more factors which should be included - climate, culture, accessibilty, infrastructure and so on. If I were asked where I would like to live given the choice, I think I would say the Algarve ...

[woolybanana]

Now then, my lovelies, you know as well as I do that it all boils down to money; if you have got loads you can buy what you want in more or less any country, including health care.

Thus is this list like describing buttered toast without the butter.

[Frederick]

If my situation was different and did not have lots of family I wanted to stay close to then I might just head for India . A bungalow with cook housekeeper near a beach and a hospital with  consultants trained in the UK near at hand  would fit the bill nicely .

[woolybanana]

Ah, the Sahibs dream. Well, I go somewhere where the ladies said in low husky voices ' What can I do for you, tuan?' (Please note, Norman and others, that the word 'husky' refers to the lady's voice, not to a furry canine, though I know Norman does have an interest in sledge pullers!)

[Sprogster]

For most retirees the weather would be high up the wish list, especially in winter where a warmer climate can save you a fortune in heating costs. Northern Europe which includes France is just not far enough south, to meet the winter weather criteria.

Spain of course includes the Canary Islands and although not my cup of tea, they are cheap to get to and winter temps are in the low twenties, so very popular with Brit retirees.

My confidence in the French health system has been shaken recently, when I learnt that France is at the bottom of the European league table for survivability after a heart attack or stroke.

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

I would certainly put France near the top for retiring to. It has everything a retiree could need.

[idun]

Well England appears to have everything I need.

And Wooly is right, money is the key. IF I was rich then I would live somewhere far more remote, and have a heckle-lopter and 4x4 and chauffer and stuff to dig us out if the snows came. Even rich, I would never live anywhere that gets hot again, never ever, just the thought fills me with dread. But I could happily winter in the Alpes, for example.

[nomoss]

Did they take into account the cost of periodic trips to the UK to stock up on essentials such as Marmite and Bird's Custard?

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]I would certainly put France near the top for retiring to. It has everything a retiree could need.

[/quote]

Snigger. Saucer of milk with that?[;-)]

[Sprogster]

I think it is fair to say that those of us already in France is prejudiced, having made the decision already!

The only disappointment for me is the weather, as even on the Med the winter can be cold, wet and miserable and in recent years spring and autumn has become much more unsettled.

If I recall correctly there are a few members of this forum who venture further south from France to escape the worst of the winter.

[idun]

[quote user="Sprogster"]I think it is fair to say that those of us already in France is prejudiced, having made the decision already! The only disappointment for me is the weather, as even on the Med the winter can be cold, wet and miserable and in recent years spring and autumn has become much more unsettled. If I recall correctly there are a few members of this forum who venture further south from France to escape the worst of the winter.[/quote]

 

I always look on the prospect of chilly winters like this. WHY did the Romans invent central heating if the weather was warm all the year round. A simplistic way of looking at it, but it makes sense to my little brain. Also I know that it can get nippy in winter in quite a lot of southern Spain........ and when my son moved to Madrid, for some reason, he thought it was going to have mild winters, but it was very very cold there in winter and very very hot in summer!

[powerdesal]

''WHY did the Romans invent central heating if the weather was warm all the year round. ''

It was invented because of all the cold places they invaded. !!!!!!!

[Evianers]

Is it not sometimes a question of what you, personally, want in your retirement?

We could not wait to leave No. 6 because of .......... well, I don't want to go into details so will leave this to your fertile imaginations, so chose France and are blissfully happy here except for the occasional strike. Nowhere is paradise but here in the Haute Savoie, we feel that we are close to it, being very near to both borders of CH which also gives us added advantages.

Wonder where UK would come on the list - last???[;-)]

[NickP]

Watching the immigration minister dodging questions on the news this morning; about how many illegal immigrants there are in the UK, I would think that in eastern Europe and the middle east the UK is everyones favourite place to retire to? [:D][:D] 

[Evianers]

[quote user="NickP"]Watching the immigration minister dodging questions on the news this morning; about how many illegal immigrants there are in the UK, I would think that in eastern Europe and the middle east the UK is everyones favourite place to retire to? [:D][:D] [/quote]

Possibly correct..... but it certainly wouldn't be for the weather. Just returned. Never more glad to be back in the Haute Savoie!

[idun]

Now it is this time of year that I find very comparible between the Alpes and NE England. In fact, in spite of not being musical, I invented a little song for my kids when they were small, to part of the tune to 'she'll be coming round the mountain' and it was:

When it's raining in the valley

It's snowing in the mountains.

Long time ago, cannot remember the rest, but something about going skiing.

Our autumns were damp and often wet and grey in Alpes and I love autumns like that, the stunning contrasts of the autumn leaves and the grey skies. And I get them where I am here in the UK too, all with the odd  sunny day and that special autumn blue sky, lovely.

You can all keep spring and summer, I love my autumns and winters.

 

Nothing wrong with the UK at all. There are parts of France that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, as there are parts of the UK I wouldn't touch with a barge pole either. Even rural parts of both. It never means that the whole country is terrible.

 

 

[Cendrillon]

[quote user="idun"]

Our autumns were damp and often wet and grey in Alpes and I love autumns like that, the stunning contrasts of the autumn leaves and the grey skies. And I get them where I am here in the UK too, all with the odd  sunny day and that special autumn blue sky, lovely.

You can all keep spring and summer, I love my autumns and winters.

 

Nothing wrong with the UK at all. There are parts of France that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, as there are parts of the UK I wouldn't touch with a barge pole either. Even rural parts of both. It never means that the whole country is terrible.

 

 

[/quote]

Well said Idun,