woolybanana Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Some of you will doubtless have remarked in the Brit press that EDF are increasing their charges by 11% in the UK. Now, given that the company is stil mainly owned by the French government which is desperate to find taxes, is it possible that they are partly behind this rise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Well you have seen the other thread about the proposal to bring in three payment bands here in France which could result in higher charges here too.I am not sure that the government has a say in the tariffs practised in the UK, but they certainly do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Well, if they wanted to raise extra money thru higher dividends, they might 'influence' EDF to up the charges for the Rosbifs, and keep them down here. A nice cross subsidy, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 There was a documentary last night about the trains in the UK. Apparently the German nationalised railways run quite a few trains in the UK and use part of the profits to subsidise their German system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 With France and Germany now sliding deeper into recession with no sign of coming out before 2014 . I suppose they would look to raising as much as they could get away with from the UK . However as far as electricity and gas goes EDF have to ensure their prices are competitive as it only takes a couple of clicks on a web site to change to a cheaper supplier. EDF are offering a fixed rate for gas and electricity to March 2015 so anybody who has signed up for that should not have to face any increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanne Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have recently rented a small house for 3 months whilst I wait for my house purchase to go through. I was quoted 70 euros for the electricity per month. I have just had to pay nearly 300 euros for mid jan to mid feb. Electric heating. As the owners stated that they had spent the previous winter in the house can anyone enlighten me whether the prices from edf have increased x4 ! I am now paying nearly 950 for rent and electricity this is crazy. All heaters on 17 degrees now. And most switched off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I think that sounds right for the winter period, if a little high. Perhaps the owners were talking about the monthly cost averaged out over the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Electric heating is, in my opinion, a very expensive way to go.Our monthly prelevement is euro 69 as set by EDF based on our last 12 months. We don't have electric heating, just the normal water heater, fridges, freezers, lighting etc.A few years ago we had a family Christmas which meant using electric heaters in all 4 bedrooms and bathroom, the bill over that period was well in excess of euro 500. Never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 There is a piece in the Sunday Times today (sorry...you have to subscribe to get it on-line so I can't paste the link).But basically, it's on a similar vein, but about "Iberdrola, the owner of Scottish Power, sends £900m home after jacking up British gas and electricity prices" who are spanish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"] There is a piece in the Sunday Times today (sorry...you have to subscribe to get it on-line so I can't paste the link).But basically, it's on a similar vein, but about "Iberdrola, the owner of Scottish Power, sends £900m home after jacking up British gas and electricity prices" who are Spanish[/quote]I think that there is a certain amount journalistic licence involved in these newspaper articles. Some years ago when these sort of accusations were made in the UK press I did some comparisons and the cost per unit of electricity in France was near enough the same as the UK. The primary difference however is the 'standing charges' which in France are much higher that the UK meaning I am paying more for my electricity in France than what I would be paying in the UK. I have just recalculated and to be honest the situation is about the same for me, it's more expensive in France by about €380 per year (according to Uswitch). I paid €210 per month although that has dropped now because of the type of heating but as I had conventional electric heating before I used the same figures for comparison to last time.As to Joanne, well I agree with the others, I suspect the previous owner is quoting their monthly figure over a year (well 10 months actually) and may have been more frugal with their electricity. Of course if the house has a chimney they may be burning wood rather than electricity in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote user="powerdesal"]Electric heating is, in my opinion, a very expensive way to go. Our monthly prelevement is euro 69 as set by EDF based on our last 12 months. We don't have electric heating, just the normal water heater, fridges, freezers, lighting etc. A few years ago we had a family Christmas which meant using electric heaters in all 4 bedrooms and bathroom, the bill over that period was well in excess of euro 500. Never again.[/quote]I think you said before but I can't rememeber, how do you heat your house in winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Do the Brits keep selling off their utilities, manufacturing industries and businesses to foreign companies so that they will always have something to complain about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Don't know if anyone has followed this in the French press, but EDF has just been severely criticised by the Cour des Comptes (Auditor General in UK?) for overpaying its workers, giving them free electricity for life and other perks, at the expense of the electricity consumer. Given that it is a State owned company, we might compare it to the fonctionnariat and assume that we are subsidizing its extravagant ways, besides the government milking it for whatever it can.As regards UK consumers, there is no doubt that they are getting screwed by these foreign owned companies, which includes some railways, I see. Time they were brought to heel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 This was a piece in management today (from 2012) Among British firms that are foreign owned are Lotus, MG Rover, Jaguar Land Rover, Vauxhall, Pilkington Glass, Boots, Asda, Tetley Tea, Corus, lottery operator Camelot, confectioner Terry's, and telecoms giant O2.Two-thirds of the UK's electricity is generated by overseas firms. Australian, Dutch, Hong Kong-based, Malaysian and French companies own our water outfits. In July, Hong Kong-based billionaire Li Ka-Shing bought UK gas company Wales and West Utilities. He already owns utilities in Canada, Australia and the UK, including Northumbrian Water Group.BAA is Spanish-owned. P&O Ports, the British Airports Authority, Associated British Ports, Tilbury docks and Felixstowe port are all foreign-owned, as are London landmarks The Dorchester, The Savoy, Selfridges and Harvey Nichols. Barclays Bank was, arguably, only saved in 2008 by an injection of Qatari money.Our railways funnel money to owners in France and Germany, while High Speed 1 is owned by a pair of Canadian pension funds. HS2 is also likely to have foreign owners. Manchester United, Manchester City, Aston Villa and Birmingham City are foreign owned. Occasionally, some odd deals get thrown up too, such as the recent sale of Goals Soccer Centres to the Canadian Teachers pension fund, a deal estimated at £77m.Notoriously, when Kraft was bidding for Cadbury, some of the money for the deal was put up by state-owned RBS. That a bank owned by the British people was helping a US firm to aggressively take over a much-loved British business did not go down well.Perhaps even odder is the fact that Deutsche Bahn, owned by the German state, bought train operator Arriva in 2010. Thus part of the railways privatised by the British government was effectively renationalised by the German government.Some of the biggest activity is, not surprisingly, by the Chinese. They are said to have $3.2trn to invest overseas. That Weetabix recently became Chinese is a sign of the times.China is also moving into British utilities. Its state-owned oil company CNOOC is poised to take over Canadian business Nexen for $15.1bn dollars, which would give it control of the biggest-producing North Sea oil field, Buzzard, among others. Another state-owned Chinese firm, Sinopec, is taking a 49% stake in the North Sea oil business of another Canadian firm, Talisman. China, therefore, will own 8% of oil and gas production in the North Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="powerdesal"]Electric heating is, in my opinion, a very expensive way to go. Our monthly prelevement is euro 69 as set by EDF based on our last 12 months. We don't have electric heating, just the normal water heater, fridges, freezers, lighting etc. A few years ago we had a family Christmas which meant using electric heaters in all 4 bedrooms and bathroom, the bill over that period was well in excess of euro 500. Never again.[/quote]I think you said before but I can't rememeber, how do you heat your house in winter?[/quote] We have an 11kw wood burner in the sitting room. It also heats the main bedroom above, to an acceptable level ( we like a cool bedroom !!!!!! ). The downstairs shower room has an electric convector heater that only needs about 45 mins to heat adequately. The kitchen has a petrole burner. The spare bedrooms and upstairs bathroom are not heated. One day we will get the planned CH finished. Ins'Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Of course this is the consequence of privatisation of essential utilities.When the private sector fails the state, that is the ordinary taxpayer, will have to pick up the bill as heppened with the banks.Already a number of towns in France are looking at taking back the management of their water supply after seeing the excesses of the private companies.As an example I pay 4.53€ a cubic metre for water, (Lyonnaise des Eaux) whereas in a nearby town which manages its own water in a responsible way the price is much lesshttp://bedarieux.blogs.midilibre.com/archive/2012/12/19/pas-d-augmentation-du-prix-de-l-eau-en-2013.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Norman, public ownership and control are not the same thing.You seem to forget the hideous mess that things like the old BT were in; the current post office and the NHS are the last of the dinosaurs. National ownership never works successfully except in the interests of a very few, strange as it may seem, is massively inefficient and expensive and is too subject to political interference and union extremism.What is needed is adequate control and regulation.Now, if private sector ethics could be applied to the State sector, we might be getting somewhere.Many years ago, the old Cable and Wireless was run as a private company but was in fact State owned; that was the only example that I can think of which was efficient and competitive. But it only worked because the State was hands off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You may not have guessed but I would say I am slightly right of center in my political beliefs [;-)] , only slightly right but not a full blown Tory. One thing I never agreed with was the privatisation of gas, electricity, water and the railways. Some of these things are necessities and should be owned by the people for the people. Likewise I would not agree with privatising the Post Office. With the railways it was right to nationalised them, they are a country wide network and it is totally impracticable to have them cut up and sold off. Doing this was a like a step backwards to pre 1948.I never had a problem however with BT being privatised, not having a telephone is not a matter of life and death. Privatising it made it competitive and drove down prices.One thing I do remember was the year after water was privatised. All the newspapers were going on about the 'fat cats' making a profit as the end of year results showed massive profits. Little physically had changed in the first 12 months so the real question for me, and to this day never properly answered, was that it must have been making these profits when nationalised so who had the money because for sure they never put it back in to the system like renewing ancient pipes etc?So perhaps Wooly is correct in some of his comments, perhaps things could be better now the unions don't have s much control as the days of such fiasco's of British Leyland have long gone, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Sometimes, I think of France as being like UK was all those years ago, needing to change but not having the guts or the charismatic leader who could lead the country forward! Certainly, it won't happen under the King Penguin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Quillan"] [quote user="powerdesal"]Electric heating is, in my opinion, a very expensive way to go. Our monthly prelevement is euro 69 as set by EDF based on our last 12 months. We don't have electric heating, just the normal water heater, fridges, freezers, lighting etc. A few years ago we had a family Christmas which meant using electric heaters in all 4 bedrooms and bathroom, the bill over that period was well in excess of euro 500. Never again.[/quote]I think you said before but I can't rememeber, how do you heat your house in winter?[/quote] We have an 11kw wood burner in the sitting room. It also heats the main bedroom above, to an acceptable level ( we like a cool bedroom !!!!!! ). The downstairs shower room has an electric convector heater that only needs about 45 mins to heat adequately. The kitchen has a petrole burner. The spare bedrooms and upstairs bathroom are not heated. One day we will get the planned CH finished. Ins'Allah.[/quote]So how much wood and paraffin do you get through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Q Wrote : So perhaps Wooly is correct in some of his comments, perhaps things could be better now the unions don't have s much control as the days of such fiasco's of British Leyland have long gone, I hope.What should happen to Peugeot ? I see there is now talk of plant closures it is so much in the red today its telephone numbers ! Should it be bailed out ? Or left to go under ? Its not looking good for them. I have had 3 and my wife has one now . They are not bad cars . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote user="Frederick"]Q Wrote : So perhaps Wooly is correct in some of his comments, perhaps things could be better now the unions don't have s much control as the days of such fiasco's of British Leyland have long gone, I hope.What should happen to Peugeot ? I see there is now talk of plant closures it is so much in the red today its telephone numbers ! Should it be bailed out ? Or left to go under ? Its not looking good for them. I have had 3 and my wife has one now . They are not bad cars .[/quote]I would say let it go. One thing we learnt from various car companies (and the docks) in the UK is that you either let a foreign buyer own it assuming you can find one or bite the bullet and let it go. If you look at what happened to BL, how much money was pumped in to it and they still ended up with all the workers on the dole. In fact it cost them a lot more to keep paying the workers and the factory bills than it would have just to lay them off. I know it's hard and if I had to do it I would find it difficult to look the workers in the face but at the end of the day throwing good (tax payers) money after bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote user="Frederick"]Q Wrote : So perhaps Wooly is correct in some of his comments, perhaps things could be better now the unions don't have s much control as the days of such fiasco's of British Leyland have long gone, I hope.What should happen to Peugeot ? I see there is now talk of plant closures it is so much in the red today its telephone numbers ! Should it be bailed out ? Or left to go under ? Its not looking good for them. I have had 3 and my wife has one now . They are not bad cars .[/quote]I would say let it go. One thing we learnt from various car companies (and the docks) in the UK is that you either let a foreign buyer own it assuming you can find one or bite the bullet and let it go. If you look at what happened to BL, how much money was pumped in to it and they still ended up with all the workers on the dole. In fact it cost them a lot more to keep paying the workers and the factory bills than it would have just to lay them off. I know it's hard and if I had to do it I would find it difficult to look the workers in the face but at the end of the day throwing good (tax payers) money after bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Maybe now that a large proportion of the population and many of the industries in Britain are foreign, things may start to work properly [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Quillan"] [quote user="powerdesal"]Electric heating is, in my opinion, a very expensive way to go. Our monthly prelevement is euro 69 as set by EDF based on our last 12 months. We don't have electric heating, just the normal water heater, fridges, freezers, lighting etc. A few years ago we had a family Christmas which meant using electric heaters in all 4 bedrooms and bathroom, the bill over that period was well in excess of euro 500. Never again.[/quote]I think you said before but I can't rememeber, how do you heat your house in winter?[/quote] We have an 11kw wood burner in the sitting room. It also heats the main bedroom above, to an acceptable level ( we like a cool bedroom !!!!!! ). The downstairs shower room has an electric convector heater that only needs about 45 mins to heat adequately. The kitchen has a petrole burner. The spare bedrooms and upstairs bathroom are not heated. One day we will get the planned CH finished. Ins'Allah.[/quote]So how much wood and paraffin do you get through?[/quote] Whilst I don't have accurate figures, I estimate an annual usage of approx 10 stere of logs and 240 litres of paraffin. That equates to approx euro 770 per year. That figure will rise of course when the CH is installed to (probably) around euro 900 + a small increase in electricity due to electric cooker use in summer. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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