Monty Don's French Gardens

[Gardian]

[quote user="sueyh"]Really been enjoying this series, just love the ambiance of it.  Very relaxing watch.  We visited Vilandry last year and it was beautiful and the Chateau is well worth a visit, very refreshing. 

Looking forward to the next instalment tonight.

Suey
[/quote]

Returning to the programme & ignoring all that tobacco sideshow ............. we just watched last night's prgramme and it was a delight.  Very Southern!

The presence at the same time of cherries (May - mid-June) & lavender (late-June - end July) was a surprise, but you have to believe what you see I suppose.

MD is a good broadcaster IMO. Not everyone shares that view I know, but its hard to stomach the fact that the man has suffered from cronic depression. Good to see him back and in fine form.

[mint]

After the glowing praise, I wonder if I should stick my head above the parapet at all.

However, I guess I'm entitled to my opinion for all that.  IMVHO, the commentary is the most pretentious twaddle I've heard in a very long time.  And this isn't said with tongue in cheek to provoke a reaction.  Unfortunately, I think his sort of twaddle is what is considered meritorious these days and I don't doubt that his programmes will be very popular.

The moment he tries to speak French, I cringe and when he said "beaucoup des ......", I couldn't help myself muttering "beaucoup DE"!

I consider the gardens to be the real star of the show except for that awful so-called  "cubist" garden which I thought was ugly and wondered how they kept the chippings in place after rain and how often they have to paint the walls to keep them white.

Wish they'd asked Carol Klein to present the show:  I could imagine her swooping on the plants in delight and her rather breathless and enthusiastic (and knowledgeable) commentary, and I always marvel at the way she could rattle off all the latin names of the plants totally effortlessly.

But then, she wears her knowledge very lightly indeed.

 

[Ivor Nidea]

I am sorry to disagree with you Mrs Tooting because all of your posts are normally so charitable but as the programme is aimed at English speaking people I don't think his lack of proper pronounciation should be held against him. With my lack of knowledge of either French, gardening or indeed any sort of fashion sense I can only hear him having a go at speaking, what I assumed was, good enough French. The braces though are a different matter. Perhaps Carol Klein could take a tip from him and add it to her wardrobe. Isn't she brilliant! I like her complete disregard for any attempt to make herself look presentable for the camera, which only serves to make her look damned attractive, if you don't mind me being sexist?

I do agree about the "seed tray" garden, blimey! Looked like something out of Blue Peter.

[mint]

[quote user="Ivor Nidea"]

I am sorry to disagree with you Mrs Tooting because all of your posts are normally so charitable but as the programme is aimed at English speaking people I don't think his lack of proper pronounciation should be held against him. With my lack of knowledge of either French, gardening or indeed any sort of fashion sense I can only hear him having a go at speaking, what I assumed was, good enough French. The braces though are a different matter. Perhaps Carol Klein could take a tip from him and add it to her wardrobe. Isn't she brilliant! I like her complete disregard for any attempt to make herself look presentable for the camera, which only serves to make her look damned attractive, if you don't mind me being sexist?

I do agree about the "seed tray" garden, blimey! Looked like something out of Blue Peter.

[/quote]

Ah, Ivor, my issue with him is not JUST about his inability to speak French with anything like a half decent accent.  Blimey, you clearly have never heard me speaking French![:$]  But then, I don't speak French on TV and inflict my painful lack of knowledge on the TV world and pass my speech off as somehow admirable [;-)]

The braces, the ridiculous showy hat, the spurious link he makes between "gardening" and "art", his sweeping generalisations; I could go on but it's too painful an experience!

If he knew anything about art, I'd paint my geraniums and sent them to him.  Better still, I'd paint them blue and refer to them as belonging to my "blue period".

It's just that I recognise a phoney when I see one and I like to think that I know "second-rate" when it hits me smack in the face.

[Ivor Nidea]

Perhaps it is an extension of the dumbing down in programmes nowadays. I have to confess to being the archetypal pleb and never choose to watch anything close to being "arty", so if the programme is chaired by Melvyn Bragg types then it is one to avoid as far as I am concerned, so the references made to art by MD went <woosh> over my head.

I did think though that when he was dressed by the costume department in his straw hat, baggy pants and jacket, and the braces borrowed from Bobby Ball, what came to mind was Dirk Bogarde in "The Spanish Gardener".

On the whole I thought the series of programmes failed to impart in me a need to visit any of the gardens, even the ones nearer to where I live.

Please don't blame me for my lack of any appreciation of art or to my lack of ability in the French language as I went to a bog standard secondary modern school where to be thought of as a swot or in any way having an art "bent" invited a wedgie, dead leg or being hung by the back of your collar to a peg in the cloakroom at break time[:D].

[nomoss]

I felt his theatrical outfit was a bit naïve if he thought it suggested his involvement with the art of french gardening, but it was at least entertaining.

His 2CV covered distances I previously thought unimaginable for the car, and it was always sunny. I'm sure they hauled it around in the back of a lorry and put him in it for a few shots whenever they saw a nice bit of countryside.

What I did find puzzling were his frequent references to the strong artistic feelings that the French have towards their gardens.

I have obviously been travelling around the wrong parts of France to observe this as a general trait [:(]

 

 

[Frecossais]

I'm not talking about public gardens here, but the French people I know love and aim to emulate English gardens.

[Pommier]

[quote user="Frecossais"]I'm not talking about public gardens here, but the French people I know love and aim to emulate English gardens.

[/quote]

The French buyers of our last house thought the garden was wonderful, wheras it was really a bit of a mess with the dog burning holes in the lawn and finding it fun to run through the borders, but they kept saying 'an English garden!'

I'm not struck on Monty Don, although I would never criticise his accent as it's bound to be better than mine! There are a lot of what I think of as not real gardeners on television at present (Carol Klein excepted) - just think how good Geoff Hamilton used to be!

[Chris]

My wife and I enjoy MD's programmes, especially French Gardens. As we live in England, it's a nice way to 'tour' France.

[Gardengirl]

I haven't seen any of these programmes, but hope to be able to catch up with them. I note Gardian's comments on the 'Cevennes' garden; I know this place, and buy from the nuns from time to time - our walking group occasionally takes a dog-leg to pop in there too. Definitely in the Gard!

I think Monty Don is a really good gardener; I didn't think anyone could possibly replace my hero Geoff Hamilton, but Monty is getting there.

[mint]

[quote user="Chris"]My wife and I enjoy MD's programmes, especially French Gardens. As we live in England, it's a nice way to 'tour' France.[/quote]

If you want to "tour" France, I suggest that you watch the Tour de France this summer.  Believe me, it's better than any travelogue, especially if you watch it on French TV.  I don't know what your French is like but, even if it's no better than mine, you'd understand enough to thoroughly enjoy it.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Chris"]My wife and I enjoy MD's programmes, especially French Gardens. As we live in England, it's a nice way to 'tour' France.[/quote]

If you want to "tour" France, I suggest that you watch the Tour de France this summer.  Believe me, it's better than any travelogue, especially if you watch it on French TV.  I don't know what your French is like but, even if it's no better than mine, you'd understand enough to thoroughly enjoy it.

[/quote]

I totally agree. Apart from loving to watch the racing (which I do as a keen cyclist) the TV coverage of France is usually spectacular and some of the helicopter shots are fantastic.

[Chris]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Chris"]My wife and I enjoy MD's programmes, especially French Gardens. As we live in England, it's a nice way to 'tour' France.[/quote]

If you want to "tour" France, I suggest that you watch the Tour de France this summer.  Believe me, it's better than any travelogue, especially if you watch it on French TV.  I don't know what your French is like but, even if it's no better than mine, you'd understand enough to thoroughly enjoy it.

[/quote]

Funnily enough, we watched it for the first time last year, on Sky. We're not cyclists, but were riveted by the almost meditative quality of the thing, as well as being gob smacked by the beauty of the scenery. What a beautiful country!

I'm learning French (still basic) but I did pick up certain phrases.

[sid]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Chris"]My wife and I enjoy MD's programmes, especially French Gardens. As we live in England, it's a nice way to 'tour' France.[/quote]

If you want to "tour" France, I suggest that you watch the Tour de France this summer.  Believe me, it's better than any travelogue, especially if you watch it on French TV.  I don't know what your French is like but, even if it's no better than mine, you'd understand enough to thoroughly enjoy it.

[/quote]

Totally agree Sweet! We even managed to get on one of the helicopter shots a few years ago, which makes the scenery even... better(??). [:P]

Going back to the original criticism of the series, I enjoyed the first two, but found the last one less bearable. The scenery is still great, but I don't like having "art" explained to me. I either like something or not. A garden full of squares of grasses or decorative gravel is just that, a garden. Overall I give it 9/10. [geek] 

[andyh4]

Well the OH and I enjoyed and were entertained and in part educated by the mini series.  And that is what TV is all about isn't it?  Education and entertainment.

 

If that has to include a straw hat, a CV2, and (did no one else notice it?) accordian music as scene/mood setters, well so be it.  Remember the target audience was probably people who are a lot less knowledgable than the group represented here.  The fact that MD used his (albeit flawed) knowledge of French is to me a great positive and I would rather have had that and the French replies, than the all too common voiced over English (mis-)interpretation.  It also perhaps helps to dispell a myth (for the GP) that all French speak at least a little English.

 

As for the placement of the Cevennes, I wonder, can anyone definitively say where the boundary is?  I have a French produced map which clearly shows them running almost from the coast in the Herault, through Gard and into the Ardèche and almost up to Lyon.  This is clearly not in agreement with what most of us would see as 21st Century Cevennes - but which interpretation is correct?  Indeed is either of them right or wrong?

 

[Greenfrog]

I thoroughly enjoyed it and like Andyh4 I was impressed that at least Monty did speak French. It is embarrassing that generally the British don't even try. And I liked his straw hat and braces - it seems to be very him! He once designed fashion jewellery ( I still have one of his pieces!) so he certainly has an 'arty' side to his character.

I thought he presented it really well and you could feel his curiosity and desire to understand the thinking behind the gardens he visited.

The worst bit was there were only 3 programmes as I am sure there are plenty more gardens he could have visited.

[mint]

Sorry but I totally disagree as I don't like my ears assaulted by the "French" full of mistakes and mispronunciations that this man spews out of his mouth.

If you have been watching the hundred years' war programme (last programme last night) as well, you will realise that the presenter of that programme speaks perfectly good French but does not speak it to camera.  We hear French people speak to camera, we see her nodding in understanding and we get the subtitles in English.

For what it's worth, I'd rather hear French spoken really well and, if this Monty Don person can do that, then I am prepared to listen and enjoy but, as he very obviously doesn't, I'd rather have the subtitles, thank you. 

[mint]

[quote user="andyh4"]

As for the placement of the Cevennes, I wonder, can anyone definitively say where the boundary is?  I have a French produced map which clearly shows them running almost from the coast in the Herault, through Gard and into the Ardèche and almost up to Lyon.  This is clearly not in agreement with what most of us would see as 21st Century Cevennes - but which interpretation is correct?  Indeed is either of them right or wrong?

 

[/quote]

Well, andy, I am due to walk in the Cévennes in May, following in the footsteps of RL Stevenson as written in his book "Travels with a Donkey in the Cévennes" so I'll let you know when I come back!

I know next to nothing about the Cévennes, apart from the sweet onions produced there as sold by Lidl [:$]

[Gardian]

[quote user="andyh4"]

As for the placement of the Cevennes, I wonder, can anyone definitively say where the boundary is?  I have a French produced map which clearly shows them running almost from the coast in the Herault, through Gard and into the Ardèche and almost up to Lyon.  This is clearly not in agreement with what most of us would see as 21st Century Cevennes - but which interpretation is correct?  Indeed is either of them right or wrong?

[/quote]

Just an opinion rather than a definitive answer.

I remember getting in to an awful ruck with somebody on here a few years ago over where the western edge of Provence ended. He said the Rhone. In truth, I didn't actually disagree with him, but the Michelin Green Guide is quite clear - it's a north / south line just west of Nimes, i.e. 30-40kms west of the Rhone.

Anyway, that's where I reckon that Provence ends and the Cevennes start. Did the drive due west to Ales today and as soon as you can see the hills of the Cevennes, that's the start point IMO.  What's sure is that nobody around here thinks that they live in the Cevennes.  But they don't think that they live in Provence either!!

 

[Gardengirl]

[quote user="Gardian"][quote user="andyh4"]

As for the placement of the Cevennes, I wonder, can anyone definitively say where the boundary is?  I have a French produced map which clearly shows them running almost from the coast in the Herault, through Gard and into the Ardèche and almost up to Lyon.  This is clearly not in agreement with what most of us would see as 21st Century Cevennes - but which interpretation is correct?  Indeed is either of them right or wrong?

[/quote]

Just an opinion rather than a definitive answer.

I remember getting in to an awful ruck with somebody on here a few years ago over where the western edge of Provence ended. He said the Rhone. In truth, I didn't actually disagree with him, but the Michelin Green Guide is quite clear - it's a north / south line just west of Nimes, i.e. 30-40kms west of the Rhone.

Anyway, that's where I reckon that Provence ends and the Cevennes start. Did the drive due west to Ales today and as soon as you can see the hills of the Cevennes, that's the start point IMO.  What's sure is that nobody around here thinks that they live in the Cevennes.  But they don't think that they live in Provence either!!

 

[/quote]

What was mentioned was that the monastery shown in the film

wasn't in the Cevennes, although it was said in the film to be there. The monastery isn't

far from us (or from Gardian, as he said), and one of the nuns sells

their produce at our market each week. We are not in the Cevennes, we

are in the Gard. Many books etc show our town, and even Nimes and the

Pont du Gard, as being in Provence, and quite a few B&Bs around here

also claim they are in Provence (American tourists love to think they

are in Provence when in Nimes or at the Pont du Gard). The area

definitely was part of Provence in the past. Gardian, I reckon any

locals round here would happily strangle the author of the Green Guide

for that 'sin'; they would definitely say they are from the Languedoc! We are said to be midway between the Med and the Cevennes.

Sweet, will you also have a donkey? What dates are you following in Stevenson's footsteps? We could come to meet you to bring you succour - not the pickled onion sort!  [:)]

[mint]

[quote user="gardengirl "]Sweet, will you also have a donkey? What dates are you following in Stevenson's footsteps? We could come to meet you to bring you succour - not the pickled onion sort!  [:)]
[/quote]

Definitely in May but actual dates to be agreed with my co-walker.

Would you (with or without your OH) like to join us for part of the walk?

BTW, I read the book in English and in French (not parallel texts, but reading a page of one and then the other) and, as usual, I am amazed and puzzled at how the "sense" is translated but not always the actual words.  It's such an art, translation, don't you think?

Edit:  no, no donkey and not sleeping in the open like Stevenson did!  I don't think I can bear to use a "goad" on any animal (shame on Stevenson) and I think les belles etoiles are very nice up in the sky; however, I don't think I need to sleep under them to appreciate their beauty.

[Gardengirl]

Sweet, that's very tempting. However, my walking hasn't amounted to much over the last few months; granddaughter-minding in UK for a month meant absolutely no walking apart from to the shops etc pushing pushchair, although I've managed to up the kms a bit since we got back here.

We'll be in UK for part of May as usual; we always return for family birthdays etc. Don't know exact dates yet, a bit like you. But it would be good to join up in some capacity - and it's almost 2 years since our group with Cooperlola had lunch together - yikes!

What a pity you won't have a donkey! One of the 'Balades en avril' that the TOs put together here included a 2-day walk with 2 donkeys; I wasn't on that, although a (younger) French friend was; she said it was wonderful. I was on another walk which crossed with the donkey group twice and it all seemed very light-hearted, although the donkey wasn't expected to carry anything - one of the problems RLS had!

[mint]

Hey, GG, would be good if you could just walk for half a day or something.  Or how about showing us the sights in Nîmes?

I last went to Nîmes as a teenager so I expect it's changed a little bit since then![:-))]

[Gardengirl]

If the dates fit and it was a short part of the walk, that would be lovely. Sightseeing would also be a pleasure - Nimes will definitely have changed, but the Roman arena is still wonderful. But you'd be so close that you could add in the Pont du Gard, Uzès, maybe even Avignon - how long will you have?  [:D]

[mint]

How splendid that would be, GG.  I will discuss it all with Annie and see how she is fixed as she would have left her husband and a son in Italy whilst we walk.

Never having seen the Pont du Gard, I am definitely keen to see it.  Just hearing the name makes me think of Marcel Pagnol's grandfather who would look at the stones instead of the whole structure as he was a stone-cutter!  Pagnol describes the scene with affection in "La gloire de mon père" .

I will keep you "au courant" [:)]