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Where do you start trying to fix France?


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Divided into warring tribes that are each protecting their rice bowl, France is up a bankrupt creek without a paddle, yet none of the self- interested lobbies who are part of the cause seems concerned or willing to give an inch of their privileges This article is an interesting analysis of the problem:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2013/06/14/01002-20130614ARTFIG00613-ces-lobbies-qui-bloquent-la-france.php

Translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lefigaro.fr%2Fpolitique%2F2013%2F06%2F14%2F01002-20130614ARTFIG00613-ces-lobbies-qui-bloquent-la-france.php

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Norman, you are becoming increasingly predictable to the point of cliché. Instead of constantly making comparisons with your perception of the failures of the UK, why not give us the benefit of your wisdom by making some relevant suggestions in answer to Wooly's OP?

You were bemoaning the fact, recently, that nobody seems interested in talking about French current events, yet often when a thread is started about French current events, you're among the first to jump in and divert the discussion to one about the shortcomings of the UK. Honestly, is it surprising that there's so little incentive for folk to contribute their viewpoint? You always have interesting and thought provoking things to say, in between sniping at the UK. I would have been interested to read some of your opinions about fixing France, but I'm a bit fed up of reading the constant snide comments about the UK.

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Please explain how France is in a worse state than it ever has been.

Unemployment has always been high amongst the young. Strikes, well, it wouldn't be France without strikes, especially at the most inconvenient of times. And the employment laws, I could write much about them, and the way that they affect people's lives.

I watch french news most nights and I don't see anything that makes me feel any different, or particularly worried about 'France'. And I have watched french news  for most of my adult life, because I lived in France for most of my adult life.

Should I be worried that all the things that I saw when I arrived in France as a young woman, (because that I certainly am not any longer, 'young',) have not really changed. As I admit that some things I encountered when I first arrived in France, simply were non sensical and plain daft and yet these things still exist. These things IMO always needed changing, and yet they don't change, or hardly.

Which is not to say that I didn't see some radical change in my early years. Tonton, more or less froze pay and as it happened prices became very stable. AND he also sent everyone a demand for a loan which everyone had to pay and yet, the current french government has not done that. And that tells me that things are not as bad as I have known them.

And all our income comes from France, so unlike so many posters, we really are 'french dependent' and yet I don't feel alarmed.

I look at these articles in the links, but really, is France is such a bad state. I have yet to read about anything that I haven't known about or at least suspected.

edit,

And I must add. I am not alarmed about much in the UK either. There are a couple of things that are annoying me, a lot. But if I wanted to look at life in such a way and look at France, then all those things that I always believed that needed changing and weren't, would likely annoy me even more....... if I was prepared to waste my time thinking in such a way.

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Both the EU and the IMF have said that France has to change if it is to remain competitive in Europe let alone the World.

You have a PM and a government who have no idea how to tackle the ever rising unemployment and the only reforms they have come up with seem nothing more than tinkering - taxing the rich etc.

The power of the unions needs to be curbed and tough choices taken on the 35 hour week, social benefits and pensions.
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[quote user="DraytonBoy"]Both the EU and the IMF have said that France has to change if it is to remain competitive in Europe let alone the World. You have a PM and a government who have no idea how to tackle the ever rising unemployment and the only reforms they have come up with seem nothing more than tinkering - taxing the rich etc. The power of the unions needs to be curbed and tough choices taken on the 35 hour week, social benefits and pensions.[/quote]

Exactly. I wonder how much extra taxing the super rich, or rather trying to tax them, has raised, probably not a lot in the general scheme of things.

I was reading at the beginning of the week that the unions are already drawing up their 'battle plans' ready for any attempt from the government to 'attack' their 35h week, (very good) pensions and (very) early retirement schemes. The way things are going I wonder why the current government doesn't just turn over the running of the country to the unions because at present they are the ones running the country anyway, talk about the tail wagging the dog! Judging by the comments I hear the public sector workers have lost the support of those in the private sector anyway so perhaps it is time for Hollande to tell the unions 'how it really is' and how it will be in the future because quite frankly France cannot carry on supported a bloated public sector with all their perks. That said Hollande will just do what the unions tell him so nothing will change.

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Hollande himself is still a fonctionnaire, remember, accumulating his years towards a pension, in le cour des comptes. He really doesnt have the knuts to deal with the public sector, and given that he has been losing seats in the lower house may soon have to rely on the far left to keep a majority which will 'ugger it all up completely.

The pensions negotiations are supposed to take place over the summer, so, there will be a gradual build up of tension.

Ministers are being told not to go on holiday too far away so they can rush back to deal with the crise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10121619/France-prefers-subsidy-to-egalite.html

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And yet I thought most of these things 32 years ago, as much of life in France made no good sense to me at all and never quite did.

Is 'now' the imperative time to fix things???? AND I'll add that I always thought that fonctionnaires ran France, even if they hadn't got the top job.

So why 'now'. Just because the IMF says, because who else says........ Angela??????

I don't doubt that lots needs changing, BUT they always did![:D]

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[quote user="idun"]And yet I thought most of these things 32 years ago, as much of life in France made no good sense to me at all and never quite did.

Is 'now' the imperative time to fix things???? AND I'll add that I always thought that fonctionnaires ran France, even if they hadn't got the top job.

So why 'now'. Just because the IMF says, because who else says........ Angela??????

I don't doubt that lots needs changing, BUT they always did![:D]

[/quote]

The problem is France has run out of money, just like the UK. In the UK you can always print some more (QE as they now like t call it) as it is not in the Euro and the norm is that if you print your currency gets devalued which makes for better exports. France being in the Euro can't print money, all Euro countries have to agree to print money and therefore devalue the Euro from its current strong position (well more to the point the dollar and Sterling have collapsed against the Euro due to printing too much money). So if you can't print the money you need to borrow and at the moment nobody wants to lend money for fear they won't get it back.

The number of fonctionnaires in France is massive and quite frankly there are not enough people in the private sector paying tax to support them and their pensions. Fonctionnaires in France account for around 36% (give or take a couple of percent taking variations between sources in to account) of the working population which is way to high. Lets not forget also that they retire a lot earlier than private private sector workers. Then there is the actual work they do. Even though they are paid to do a 35h week many only work about 20h per month.

When researching my figures I came across this little ditty which I am sure you know about having such close affiliation to France.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/cest-la-vie-in-french-public-sector---but-the-fight-is-on/article1315269/

Note the little bit about Lagarde and her refusal to reduce her staff. I thought that was funny given her current comments about France and its public sector workers.

Hope that helps explain why something really needs to be done now rather than later.

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Idun

I know exactly what you are saying. Essentially there are issues everywhere. UK & France similar problems but different reasons. I do not know who is best/worse. Each country has its own economic problems. I wonder where we will be in 30 years time. I was posting here 10 years ago and times were different, there was more optimism and opportunities and now there is pessimism.

The overriding point is good/bad weather! That is still true. The French have sunny weather (South) and snow. However, you can't live your life according to the weather.
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Perhaps some countries are like some people.......

In the beginning there were no or few credit cards and people lived off what they had. And then the credit card revolution - did not one of the main players send out invites to people in financial trouble to get them off the ground. Max out on one card and get another until you then go to the payday loan companies and their several thousand percent interest and borrow off another to pay the first and eventually people try to get an IVA.

Countries have done similar things, borrow borrow borrow - unfortunately they have to pay back.

Makes me laugh the way that the unions in Greece go on protesting against austerity cuts - the cuts will be even greater if the austerity for cash is abolished,

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The difference between France and the UK is that here you a leader and government who haven't got the balls to try and change things.

Only 10 percent of French workers belong to a trade union but the power they wield is frightening and with a socialist party in power nothing will change on that front.

It does make me laugh though that a year ago everyone was celebrating getting rid of Sarko but now Hollande's popularity is at rock bottom because they realise he hasn't got a clue how to run the country.
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But what both countries have, in abundance, are vast armies of armchair politicians who have all the answers, but whose clear grasp of the issues, coupled with a readiness to share their view of what SHOULD be done, goes woefully unheeded by the top brass.
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deby, I think unfortunately even the weather is changing for the worst if the last eighteen months are anything to go by! I am in an area of France that has the highest average sunshine record and all I can say is that I have never known so much torrential and persistant rain with unusually cool temperatures for months on end, with the last week being the first time this year there are signs of the weather settling down with more consistent sunshine. If the experts are correct and the unsettled weather is the beginning of a trend for northern Europe, we won't even have a better climate to console us any longer! Although the skiers are happy!

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[quote user="woolybanana"]

Divided into warring tribes that are each protecting their rice bowl, France is up a bankrupt creek without a paddle, yet none of the self- interested lobbies who are part of the cause seems concerned or willing to give an inch of their privileges This article is an interesting analysis of the problem:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2013/06/14/01002-20130614ARTFIG00613-ces-lobbies-qui-bloquent-la-france.php

Translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lefigaro.fr%2Fpolitique%2F2013%2F06%2F14%2F01002-20130614ARTFIG00613-ces-lobbies-qui-bloquent-la-france.php

[/quote]

A good description of the countries in the EEC too methinks.

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Not really Frecossais - France is an extreme example....always has been.

Take the blatant protectionism surrounding retail prices - you can normally find products on line (i.e. on non .fr websites) for a fraction of the price of the same product in France. Whilst living in France I could never understand the blind apathy of the population in relation to being royally ripped off. In fact I actually think some residents 'prefer' to pay more!

All in the name of paying for the sickeningly bloated public machine......

Eyes wide shut......

Chiefluvvie

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Sprogster - we just got back from three weeks in Vaucluse:  the first week was unseasonally cool, windy and wet!  We met Gardian a couple of times who told us the locals in his part of the world (about an hour away from us) rcckoned it was the worst spring/early summer weather for 50 years!

I'm not a believer in global warming but the experts who met in UK this week project that warmer Atlantic sea temperatures will bring another 10 years of poor summer weather to UK (and probably large parts of France too).

As I approach retirement I don't want to think of every summer being a disappointment but I'd better get used to it or move a long way south!

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Its a bit like when a  group of lads  decide to get together every Saturday night . They all decide they will go to the pub for beer and they pass the beer mug round and agree to all put in a tenner  .. They have great time  and enjoy their  Saturday nights out and each others company drinking beer together.

One or two are more loud and others and seem to be having a  better  time and getting a bit more merry than perhaps they should be but who cares that's them that's the way they are they are still good fun to be with . It then gets noticed that when its their turn  to go and get the round in they are telling the barman to "Have one yourself and I will have a chaser with mine  "  out of the kitty .

 Result ........ they are told to  " Cut it out and stick to beer "   The Saturday meetings still continue  but the trust has gone as  the chasers are still being sneaked out of the kitty by the same one or two  even after the warning to " play fair  "  The beer drinkers then get talking among themselves and agree they they have to deal with the one or two who are  "taking the Mickey " and its suggested that another pub to meet in is found and leave the ones who want to rip off the kitty to stump up one of their own................... and leave them to drink by themselves .

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