Bongo Bongo Land

[Yonner]

Just “ parking up “ the rights and wrongs of his  Bongo land comments for a moment,  Its right that he raises the aid issue  and the sentiments  get air time. Politics, ideally, should be a

microcosm of society for it to have any hope of being democratic. Much of what

UKIP say may be poorly delivered, but it represents  - to a greater or lesser degree - the thoughts

of many in society, thoughts which are not properly aired by the main parties.

So keep it up , UKIP, and other minority parties for that

matter.

On a side note, It was interesting to hear David

Cameron on the news this morning saying that the overseas aid promise was ” a

promise we should keep.”  Could do with

similar diligence on some of the other promises Dave aid

[Quillan]

[quote user="Yonner"]

Much of what UKIP say may be poorly delivered, but it represents  - to a greater or lesser degree - the thoughts of many in society, thoughts which are not properly aired by the main parties.

[/quote]

You mean the groups to which Mr Bloom mentioned, those down the pub, the rugby club, the golf club and the cricket club, not exactly a broad spectrum of society. Interesting that so many voted for UKIP in the regional elections yet they only managed to win so few seats. I think the jury is still out on UKIP. To my mind people only hear or read from their policies what they want and interpret them the way they want because they are so vague and suit their beliefs both wrongly and rightly. They also have a habit of grossly overstating things like the number of Romanians waiting to move to the UK which turned out to be the total population of Romania. These errors are on one hand hilarious but on the other, to those less informed, scary because that is what they base their belief on i.e. totally false information at best or total lies at worse.

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 If I paid tax in the UK I would wonder why I am giving to these countries via my tax and overseas aid and then asked to give even more by charities. Perhaps the government should privatise aid i.e. leave it to these charities to raise money and supply aid and not get involved themselves.

 

[/quote]

Q you never replied to my comments, bit like you don't answer PM's, Does your comment above mean that you are a racist as it appears to me that you are supporting the man. My impression is taken from your own posting.

"I think anyone who tries to defend these people clearly show direct or indirect racism themselves and I am glad that at least in our little forum we don't have any (racists that is)."[:P][:P]

[Russethouse]

The Prime Minister made the point that if we want to control immigration numbers it pays to invest in the countries where the immigrants may come from....

[idun]

And as I pointed out, we have been 'investing' all my life and all that has happened is, that we have a world population ready to explode. Ah yes, and a lot of very rich people in very very poor countries who don't seem to give a hoot about their own!And I wonder just how many of them have the money that should have gone to their poor?

[Russethouse]

Frankly it doesn't seem to matter where the money comes from, Government or charity, the situation may improve in one place for a while, but then it slips back.......andas you say idun, some people do very well out of it.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Quillan"]

You mean the groups to which Mr Bloom mentioned, those down the pub, the rugby club, the golf club and the cricket club, not exactly a broad spectrum of society. [/quote]

Really?

Well even in my rather quiet part of England I can expect to find a very broad spectrum of society within such prestigious locations as all those mentioned above. That includes everyone from the attendant at the local tip, members of the judiciary, doctors - both junior and senior consultants, a national newsreader, police, ambulance and fire fighters, farmers, estate agents, and many more.

How much broader a spectrum could be found elsewhere I don't know!

[Clarkkent]

A couple of points:

First, it was not Prince Philip who publicly used the term "Bongo Bongo Land" but Alan Clark in about 1985. Mr Clark (the son of Lord Clark of "Civilisation" fame) was a junior minister at the time. It did not seem to harm his political career.

Mr Bloom appears to delight in being ... err ... controversial. Among his utterances have been that since the country cannot afford to keep them, all disabled children should be aborted; that women fail to clean behind fridges, and of a student visiting him in Brussels, something like "Delightfully bimbette, absolutely thick but great tits." (I suspect the forum software will censor me here - but think of small birds with "blue" or "coal" in their names.)

UKIP has nothing to offer the British electorate but fond (possible inaccurate) dreams of times past. I hope that the party goes out and recruits a whole regiment of Godfrey Blooms because then the electorate might begin to see how empty UKIP's political philosophy really is.

 

[Hoddy]

Q wrote

'Your(sic) right it should be discussed but not in the terms of race, religion or sex.'

I don't see why we shouldn't discuss it in terms of sex. As a long-term unrepentant feminist I can't for the life of me see why any of my taxes should go to regimes where women are not treated fairly under their laws.

Hoddy

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Q wrote

'Your(sic) right it should be discussed but not in the terms of race, religion or sex.'

I don't see why we shouldn't discuss it in terms of sex. As a long-term unrepentant feminist I can't for the life of me see why any of my taxes should go to regimes where women are not treated fairly under their laws.

Hoddy[/quote]

A very good point Hoddy.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Q wrote 'Your(sic) right it should be discussed but not in the terms of race, religion or sex.' I don't see why we shouldn't discuss it in terms of sex. As a long-term unrepentant feminist I can't for the life of me see why any of my taxes should go to regimes where women are not treated fairly under their laws. Hoddy[/quote]

Yes your right Hoddy, my comments were more of a general term, I was thinking more of sexism like ageism etc.

[Tancrède]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I can't for the life of me see why any of my taxes should go to regimes where women are not treated fairly under their laws.

Hoddy[/quote]

Well said.  (And I am not an unrepentant feminist myself).

It seems bizarre that the UK should be contributing over a billion pounds to Nigeria's inept, ostentatious and previously disastrous 'space programme'.  If this wealthy country genuinely wishes to embrace the values of the 'space age' (beyond the adoption of a meretricious vanity project) then a good beginning would be the suppression of the Female Genital Mutilation of which it is the biggest practioner.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Salty Sam"][quote user="Quillan"]

You mean the groups to which Mr Bloom mentioned, those down the pub, the rugby club, the golf club and the cricket club, not exactly a broad spectrum of society. [/quote]

Really?

Well even in my rather quiet part of England I can expect to find a very broad spectrum of society within such prestigious locations as all those mentioned above. That includes everyone from the attendant at the local tip, members of the judiciary, doctors - both junior and senior consultants, a national newsreader, police, ambulance and fire fighters, farmers, estate agents, and many more.

How much broader a spectrum could be found elsewhere I don't know!

[/quote]

And as Hoddy reminded me I assume they also agree with his other comments like "No businessman in their right mind would ever emply a woman" and going on to say that they become pregnant and therefore unreliable. There are a few more outragous comments that Clark Kent came up with as well. Clearly this man Bloom is somewhat short of a load when it comes to intelegence.

Judging by the amount of of seats they have won on councils (about 50 up and down the country although mainly as a protest vote) and that they don't have a single MP it seems clear that many do not agree with them at all and that they do not speak for the country as a whole.

[Quillan]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]

 If I paid tax in the UK I would wonder why I am giving to these countries via my tax and overseas aid and then asked to give even more by charities. Perhaps the government should privatise aid i.e. leave it to these charities to raise money and supply aid and not get involved themselves.

 

[/quote]

Q you never replied to my comments, bit like you don't answer PM's, Does your comment above mean that you are a racist as it appears to me that you are supporting the man. My impression is taken from your own posting.

"I think anyone who tries to defend these people clearly show direct or indirect racism themselves and I am glad that at least in our little forum we don't have any (racists that is)."[:P][:P]

[/quote]

Oh dear, wrong again, read what I said and I have highlighted a bit for you to sit and ponder over. My personal impression is that your as much of an idiot as I am a racist now go figure that comment out. [;-)]

[Yonner]

Ref Q's comment ( Can't seem to post the paragraph)

You’re nearly right, I meant many in society, as I said But

those groups would form a subset of that, along with those in work, those who

pay tax, those who give to charity  etc

etc…. Society.

The performance at elections is, I think, explained by two

possibilities at least. Firstly, as a party they are largely a one trick pony,

and secondly, the public loves a protest vote. It rattles the two main parties

and shows the microcosm of society principle in operation

Your comment on the numbers issue is spurious in

this context,  we’re discussing views on

a policy, not debunking obviously flawed numbers and information. I support

your right to make the comment, however, its democracy

[Quillan]

[quote user="Yonner"]

Ref Q's comment ( Can't seem to post the paragraph)

You’re nearly right, I meant many in society, as I said But those groups would form a subset of that, along with those in work, those who pay tax, those who give to charity  etc etc…. Society.

The performance at elections is, I think, explained by two possibilities at least. Firstly, as a party they are largely a one trick pony, and secondly, the public loves a protest vote. It rattles the two main parties and shows the microcosm of society principle in operation

Your comment on the numbers issue is spurious in this context,  we’re discussing views on a policy, not debunking obviously flawed numbers and information. I support your right to make the comment, however, its democracy[/quote]

Try using the Quote button and not the reply to the post.

The problem with numbers like the number of Rumanians allegedly waiting to move to the UK turning out to be the whole of the population should be correct at the beginning and not followed by a rather small apology afterwards that nobody spots. People glance at these numbers and they get repeated (DM was a classic) as a result some people who don't have a clue as to the population of a certain country (I include myself as I don't know the population of every EU country either) will fly in to a blind panic assuming nobody would be that stupid as to get something that wrong. So yes to a degree some numbers are important.

[Théière]

Whatever the argument, Bongo Bongo Land doesn't exist the phrase seems to have been around since 1985 (too busy enjoying my life to notice at that point) but it does serve to get the debate going as proven on here and many other forums etc.

Directly naming a country would have had far worse implications so Bongo Bongo was the least damaging.  No one would have taken the point seriously if they used Trumpton or Candlewick Green and the BBC wasted loads of documentaries on both of those [;-)]

Too much PC has meant politicians are too frightened to mention subjects for fear of castigation so firing off has at least brought the debate into the open.

We are told what to think and what to believe by the media who are manipulated by newspaper sellers and leaked govt reports (me thinks the leaks are to get our attention or divert us from the real issues)

So today on the BBC and in the press we have the Nigerian space programme 

Can't stand Nigerians, or the Spanish (Gibraltar issues) or 70% of the British, not racist just don't like p!ss takers

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]

 If I paid tax in the UK I would wonder why I am giving to these countries via my tax and overseas aid and then asked to give even more by charities. Perhaps the government should privatise aid i.e. leave it to these charities to raise money and supply aid and not get involved themselves.

 

[/quote]

Q you never replied to my comments, bit like you don't answer PM's, Does your comment above mean that you are a racist as it appears to me that you are supporting the man. My impression is taken from your own posting.

"I think anyone who tries to defend these people clearly show direct or indirect racism themselves and I am glad that at least in our little forum we don't have any (racists that is)."[:P][:P]

[/quote]

Oh dear, wrong again, read what I said and I have highlighted a bit for you to sit and ponder over. My personal impression is that your as much of an idiot as I am a racist now go figure that comment out. [;-)]

[/quote]

I thought the etiquette of a forum was that if you didn't agree with someone's view you attacked the comments not the person. Strangely it seems Q that you are above all that as you seem to take great delight in being rude and sarcastic.Still I suppose it helps you to fill in the boredom of having nothing else to do during the day or evening  It would appear that the power that goes with being a moderator has gone to your head. I also find it amazing that your fellow "mods" allow you full rein, but jump on mere mortals from a great height.

[Quillan]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]

 If I paid tax in the UK I would wonder why I am giving to these countries via my tax and overseas aid and then asked to give even more by charities. Perhaps the government should privatise aid i.e. leave it to these charities to raise money and supply aid and not get involved themselves.

 

[/quote]

Q you never replied to my comments, bit like you don't answer PM's, Does your comment above mean that you are a racist as it appears to me that you are supporting the man. My impression is taken from your own posting.

"I think anyone who tries to defend these people clearly show direct or indirect racism themselves and I am glad that at least in our little forum we don't have any (racists that is)."[:P][:P]

[/quote]

Oh dear, wrong again, read what I said and I have highlighted a bit for you to sit and ponder over. My personal impression is that your as much of an idiot as I am a racist now go figure that comment out. [;-)]

[/quote]

I thought the etiquette of a forum was that if you didn't agree with someone's view you attacked the comments not the person. Strangely it seems Q that you are above all that as you seem to take great delight in being rude and sarcastic.Still I suppose it helps you to fill in the boredom of having nothing else to do during the day or evening  It would appear that the power that goes with being a moderator has gone to your head. I also find it amazing that your fellow "mods" allow you full rein, but jump on mere mortals from a great height.

[/quote]

Going back to the post you first highlighted I take it you have never heard of irony (The expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.). Perhaps that may help you understand what I was saying?

In my second response I was again being ironic in my comment but I guess as you didn't work that out you were not to know so I shall let that personally insulting comment pass. Perhaps my fellow mods knowing me for much longer than you know there is absolutely no chance of me being racist in any way or form. As for sarcasm, well I will let your comments above speak for themselves.

As for answering your PM and as you have bought the issue up in open forum I didn't see any point in answering your PM.

Now perhaps we can get back to the thread.

[NickP]

Abso bloomin' lutley Q so you can continue to be as rude and as pompous as you like. You really are a piece of work.

[nectarine]

boys ... boys ... play nicely please ... !!!

Back to the thread, regardless of what anyone thinks about UKIP, etc., I think it's good that we are now having a much needed discussion about foreign aid and how taxpayers money is spent. It is ringfenced in every budget, whilst services are cut back in the UK. Surely if we just said "no more foreign aid, anywhere, for one year" ... well goodness, what a lot of good that money could do in the UK. Hospitals, schools, services, the elderly etc. Just seems like common sense to me.

[powerdesal]

Quillan wrote :- ''Judging by the amount of of seats they have won on councils (about 50 up and down the country although mainly as a protest vote) and that they don't have a single MP it seems clear that many do not agree with them at all and that they do not speak for the country as a whole.''

Could the fact that UKIP do not have any MPs be somehow related to the lack of parliamentary elections since their upsurge in popularity ?

[Théière]

Come on Q, not a single comment about the nigerian space project as commented by a Tory MP Philip Davies, who apart from not mentioning Bongo Bongo is making exactly the same point about foreign aid, Must be a racist too or is that term just reserved for UKIP?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/420791/Now-Britain-forks-out-foreign-aid-for-Nigeria-to-join-the-space-race

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Quillan wrote :- ''Judging by the amount of of seats they have won on councils (about 50 up and down the country although mainly as a protest vote) and that they don't have a single MP it seems clear that many do not agree with them at all and that they do not speak for the country as a whole.'' Could the fact that UKIP do not have any MPs be somehow related to the lack of parliamentary elections since their upsurge in popularity ?[/quote]

Yet they were popular enough to have had several MEP's before that. I remember Farrage being interviewed after the last election and at least he was honest enought to admit that we probably won't ever see a UKIP PM although we might see a handful of UKIP MP's (he hopes). I hope the ones they select next time are better than the ones they selected last time.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Théière"]

Come on Q, not a single comment about the nigerian space project as commented by a Tory MP Philip Davies, who apart from not mentioning Bongo Bongo is making exactly the same point about foreign aid, Must be a racist too or is that term just reserved for UKIP?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/420791/Now-Britain-forks-out-foreign-aid-for-Nigeria-to-join-the-space-race

[/quote]

Perhaps they are paying for it out of all the money the scammers have collected. [;-)] (thats a joke by the way). I doubt the launch of their current satalites came cheap either.

Firstly let me separate the two issues, Aid and Bloom.

As far as aid is concerned then there should be a minimum requirement, aid however you dish it up is charity at the end of the day and should go to those that deserve and need it rather than not giving anything at all. If you think about it with out emotion the EU would be best placed to do this. A country goes to the EU, makes it's case to a board which has a representative from all 27 states for approval. As far as the income is concerned then a fixed figure linked to GDP say 1% should do it, the better off the country the more it contributes. In fact with all the alleged money sloshing around in the EU coffers we could all stop paying aid money and that could be used instead.

Now for Mr Bloom, his 'bongo bongo' comment does not surprise me because he has more than once been caught airing his racist, sexist and homophobic views which are quite disgusting. As I have said before quite a few senior UKIP members have been 'caught' making similar comments. If you have the time to punt around the Internet you can find them especially on Twitter and Facebook. If a Tory MP said such a thing the Guardian readers would want blood and the guy would probably be thrown out of the party or cabinet. If a Labour MP said it then the DM readers would be doing the same. The fact that this guy was told 'not to say it again' shows how seriously his party takes the comment and in my mind further underpins that not only the individual but the party its self is racist, sexist and homophobic. He also has a tendency to make N*ZI salutes like he did in the EU parliament from which he was banned as an MEP. Having a daughter of mixed ethnic background and having experienced racist comment in the extreme and at its nastiest over the years you can often spot a racist just by their body language and they way they speak. Having watched this man in interview he just reeks of racism.