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Had my plaster-cast removed and going back to real life away from PC : back to our walks with the Labs and shotgun and/or picnics,many other activities and preparing for our grape harvest which will come in roughly 6-8 weeks, I thought I would end my current little foray onto this Forum by asking a question which interests me---and probably others.

I can't ask "are you happy" because that depends on many things ( and indeed is different things to different people ):some folk are ill, some suffering bereavement, etc ,etc; some are naturally happy and cheerful and some are just plain grumpy old farts ( born that way or turned into that state by a sad life ).

 

There was a survey in the UK a few weeks ago, which got a lot of publicity and comment on BBC Newsite and Blogs : which found that more people felt happier now than they did a year ago ( tho Gawd knows how that is possible in the UK-----did you see today that the population is now officially 64million (not including illegals)----struth? !!  So glad we "got away".

 

So let's narrow the perameters of the subject for the purposes of this Forum by asking : " are you happier as result of simply living in France rather than in UK  ??? ". Holidays or visiting doesn't count, cos UK is still "home".

 

What country we live in is automatically bound to affect our happiness levels, just as our immediate environment (eg are we in a caravan in Marseilles[:(] ; or let's be a [6]  and say a 250 year old farmhouse in Gard[;-)] ? ).

 

So, for those who live in La Belle France , does it increase your overall happiness? If so,to what extent ? If so,how exactly does it achieve that increase in happiness level ? With no wish to pry into individuals' personal lives, do you think living permanently in France has enhanced your life ? Made you happier ??

 

It's only fair that I show willing to "open up" by starting off what may be an interesting thread : my wife and I came to view living in a drab and unrecogniseable UK as adversely affecting our happiness barometer.Tho happy in most aspects of life, we both agreed that the UK was , to be frank, just "getting us down". To "retire" to our favourite country at age 50 was like a dream come true. Of course, we were apprehensive---it was huge life-change. But as the past 4 years have leisurely ambled away, we have come to look on France as not only adding to our happiness levels by a very significant degree : we are now hovering around the much searched-for Shangri-La type of idyllic life..........

 

Sounds daft to the old grumpies on this Site , but does it strike any similar chords with the more joyful souls who visit the Forum ? Tho, I have to say that it is VERY noticeable that the same 7 or 8 members make up 90% of all the postings and they ( generally ) have no time for new members. So this is a very narrow Site. Therefore , being interested in the topic, I do ask "passer-by" members who don't often bother to post......to make the effort to do so : in order that we can get a good cross-section. The topic will be somewhat ermmmm "familiar" if we end it with the usual suspects having hogged 90-100% yet again of yet another thread [:(]. However I understand that happiness, or rather lack of it, can often be indicated by someone who obviously sits at PC every day for hours, makes many tens of 1000s of postings and never lives a "real" life. That's why I ask "passers-by" (if indeed they exist on this Site) to help out with some contributions please.

 

So.......after the "tourner autour du pot" : does living in France make you happier and how much and why ???

Off to Zurich for a short "break". Look forward to reading a lively debate on my return.

Bon courage, mes enfants [:D]  

 

 

 

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You don't want a discussion. You want people to agree with you that they are happier because they live in France than they would be if they were still living in the UK, and if they don't agree you have loaded the question in a blatant way to dismiss them as grumpies who don't have a "real" life.

I put my hand up as a grumpy.   [:-))]As someone who is as disabled physically as you appear to be intellectually I admit I spend several hours a day at home, some of them in front of the computer which is my window on the world,  and some of those on this Forum trying to help people who raise  genuine worries not spurious patronising generalisations.

Strangely enough I consider this to be a variety of 'real' life  and just as valid as wandering aimlessly  around with a shotgun, and I have been thanked several times by members whom I have been able to advise.

While I am interested in the culture and politics of the country in which I live as can be seen from the many threads to which you have not contributed (do you ever read any that you haven't started yourself?) I can't say that the simple fact of being in France has changed my degree of happiness to any definable extent.

There are things I tend to prefer, such as the fact I find it easier to afford a decent meal out at lunchtime, and things which are more difficult, such as the bureaucracy which apparently you find 'very French' as if that trite banality had any meaning.

Have you ever considered another possibility? That we sad old f*rts who see France warts and all are happy despite the problems life has thrown at us (in my case disability,  serious illness and a  shortage of money) but that our mental state has little to do with geographical location and more to do with inner resources.

Quoting Clair quoting the words Milton put into the mouth of Satan:

The mind is its own place,

and in it self

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. [ 255 ]

What matter where, if I be still the same,

And what I should be, all but

less then he

Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least

We

shall be free
; th' Almighty hath not built

Here for his envy, will

not drive us hence: [ 260 ]

Here we

may reign secure, and in my choyce

To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:

Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n.

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Well put Norman.

I lived in the UK and I was very happy. I certainly don't recognise the miserable picture you paint Ron. Cornwall was beautiful, even in Dunstable we lived backing on to the Green Ways and had lovely views every day, super neighbours, good jobs and a fine life. We moved to France for an adventure, initially for 5 years. We stayed 10 years, made loads of excellent friends, had fun, husband learned new language and new trade. I became a member of the council and local associations. We ran our own businesses (and that was the bit I hated with mind numbing petty bureaucracy and the unreasonable and infathomable charges) but over all I was happy and had fun. Then we moved on (not back) to Derbyshire where I am also very happy.

Overall I prefer living in the UK because it offers me so many more opportunities. I often felt frustrated with the complexity of dealing with even the most simple thing in France Try going anywhere on holiday that is not France! Expensive and complicated.

Ou best French friends have just done the reverse and have moved to the UK for an adventure - they arrives a couple of weeks ago and it will be interesting to see how they find it. But at the moment they are full of wonder about how easy things are and delight in the beauty of the country.

Happiness is within. No where is perfect and criticising the bad aspects of a place does not make you miserable just realistic.

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 I moved to France for an adventure too. I could have moved anywhere, but as there was work in France and skiing, sounded the right place to try.

I had only been to France once prior to our move, o a day trip to Paris where we had been royally ripped off.[:-))]

It was interesting in France and sometimes hard work and some things a nightmare, which I could do nothing about and still cannot..... but, life is always what you make it. As a general rule we were fine in France we lived full and successful lives........what more can one want.  The awful things were in our last few years and we still live with some of them.

If you had read all that recent survey, it said that pre retirees tended to be the most dissatisfied anyway, so maybe you could not see the wood for the trees.

I moved back to the NE of England and when I first got back, loadsa people would ask why we had left France, as they 'd love to move there, so I'd say, do you speak french, usually they didn't and did they really know France and ofcourse they new llados. Then they'd say it was a dump around here, and I'd say, what about (X Y and Z)² and their reaction would be as if they had forgotten. And then they would mention the weather, and I'd say that we had bad weather in France too and I include canicules......... just the thought of living through another one actually makes me feel ill. I do miss my Alpine winters, I loved them.

I'm not grumpy, I know what 'I' like. There are places in the UK I wouldn't like to live. There are places in France I wouldn't like to live either. And you won't catch me living in the countryside in either country ever again. I need neighbours, and shops and buses and railway stations and cinemas and libraries and swimming pools all nearby, walking distance best. I am minutes from fabulous english countryside and can see it from the house, and can be amoungst it quickly, I do not need to live in it. And this old house has been enough work, I wouldn't want to be nulle part anywhere, although, when I moved to France, it may have held some appeal...... I was young then, but not for me at all these days.

Do you really want someone to say that they have found happiness in France? I would question that,  and my question would be, why on earth did you live unhappily elsewhere? I suppose it is the same as people who stay in unhappy marriages.......... I haven't a clue about why anyone does that and cannot think of a good reason. And like marriage, life itself has it's ups and downs where ever you live, but the good should always outweigh the bad, and if it doesn't, then I'd think that it was pretty odd, well the people pretty odd.

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I am happier now than a year ago because I have experienced more, understand more, and have gained more wisdom. Although happiness does relate somewhat to surroundings, I think it's what goes on within a person than externally that matters most.

When I lived in Australia, I had it all. Properties, lots of possessions, and money. Now, I have very little in the way of possessions, but I feel happier because of it. All I simply want to do is to work and earn enough for me and my family to comfortably live, and to enjoy and experience life around. I think keeping things simple is the foundation to happiness. For me anyway.

I've lived in 4 countries. Each have their good points, and each their bad. Overall, I would say on a personal level that things have gone better for me away from Europe than in it. Whether that equates to happiness, I don't know.

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[quote user="NormanH"]You don't want a discussion. You want people to agree with you that they are happier because they live in France than they would be if they were still living in the UK, and if they don't agree you have loaded the question in a blatant way to dismiss them as grumpies who don't have a "real" life.

I put my hand up as a grumpy.   [:-))]As someone who is as disabled physically as you appear to be intellectually I admit I spend several hours a day at home, some of them in front of the computer which is my window on the world,  and some of those on this Forum trying to help people who raise  genuine worries not spurious patronising generalisations.
Strangely enough I consider this to be a variety of 'real' life  and just as valid as wandering aimlessly  around with a shotgun, and I have been thanked several times by members who I have been able to advise.

While I am interested in the culture and politics of the country in which I live as can be seen from the many threads to which you have not contributed (do you ever read any that you haven't started yourself?) I can't say that the simple fact of being in France has changed my degree of happiness to any definable extent.
There are things I tend to prefer, such as the fact I find it easier to afford a decent meal out at lunchtime, and things which are more difficult, such as the bureaucracy which apparently you find 'very French' as if that trite banality had any meaning.

Have you ever considered another possibility? That we sad old f*rts who see France warts and all are happy despite the problems life has thrown at us (in my case disability,  serious illness and a  shortage of money) but that our mental state has little to do with geographical location and more to do with inner resources.
[/quote]

Norman .................

It would be a fair guess to say that the OP isn't really your kind of bloke?!! [:-))]

 

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

An old friend (in both senses) used to say' if you can't be happy in the place you were bought up, where you know how everything works and what to expect, then what hope is there for you elsewhere ?

I guess it depends what your idea of happiness is.

[/quote]I think that sometimes for some people it is easier to adjust to change in a different place where they can accept things are different but resent change in the place they were brought up in.

After all as L P Hartley said "The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there"

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[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Russethouse"]

An old friend (in both senses) used to say' if you can't be happy in the place you were bought up, where you know how everything works and what to expect, then what hope is there for you elsewhere ?

I guess it depends what your idea of happiness is.

[/quote]I think that sometimes for some people it is easier to adjust to change in a different place where they can accept things are different but resent change in the place they were brought up in.

After all as L P Hartley said "The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there"

[/quote]

I can really relate to that quote. Home for me is where I am now. Where I came from is simply that; where I came from.

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OK, I've got to say it. I was rather disturbed the first time a french friend tried to say the english word, 'happiness', to me with their french accent. I didn't think that they were saying 'happiness'. That is not what I heard.

As I have said before, I have a bad ear for languages[:-))]

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[quote user="idun"]OK, I've got to say it. I was rather disturbed the first time a french friend tried to say the english word, 'happiness', to me with their french accent. I didn't think that they were saying 'happiness'. That is not what I heard.

As I have said before, I have a bad ear for languages[:-))]
[/quote]

There is a story about de Gaulle during the War. He and his wife were interviewed, in English (which he actually spoke well), on the BBC. At the end of the interview Mme de Gaulle was asked if there was anything that she would like to bring about.

Her reply was "I would like everybody to have a penis."

Her husband said "My dear, you mean happiness."

 

I read the original post and concluded that the comments appeared to be rather pompous and that the writer would probably be trying to get back to Britain in about five years time. I have met several people in France who have espoused similar sentiments, only to return to Britain a couple of years later.

I bought my French house intending to move to France on retirement. This plan was scuppered by my wife becoming seriously ill and eventually dying a few years later. After she died, I was making plans to move to France but was prevailed upon delay my decision.

I have no idea how my life would have developed had I moved, but I now have a life in England which is rich in friendship and which is rich and varied in culture, too. I have opportunities for experiences which would be impossible (or at least difficult) in France. I still have my French house and I try to spend much of summer and periods at other times of the year in it. But twenty years of French house ownership have proved to me that, whatever my original thoughts, permanent residence may not have given me the satisfactions that my current arrangements provide.

 

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[quote user="You can call me Betty"]One of my kids lives in Peckham, and even he feels safe enough to go out for a walk without a dog and a shotgun.....[/quote]

Not in Nelson Mandela house by chance? I wonder if they drink Peckham spring water? [;-)]

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I'd happily live round his area myself. Camberwell Grove on the doorstep, Bellenden conservation area at the end of the road, Dulwich village in walking distance...

Just cos idiots like the local MP Ms Harridan pretend it's a war zone, doesn't mean it is!
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[quote user="Rabbie"]

After all as L P Hartley said "The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there"
[/quote]

Oh, Rabbie, I love that book and the film (I think it starred Julie Christie) was very good as well [:)]

Oops, I'm meant to talk about happiness.

Well, I remember one quote (can't now think from where or whom) that says that the moment you stop to ask yourself whether you are happy, you immediately cease to be so.

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Happiness, well I got out my dictionary because I was thinking that Norman was saying he is contented in his life, and that is one of the meanings of happy. There's joyful or glad, but I'm thinking they're perhaps more transitory than content. There's satisfaction, that might be harder to attain, and lucky which Ron B obviously feels he is, then there's willing which doesn't count here.

It's not a comprehensive list, and I've only given my opinion here.

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Technically, I've always seen happiness as something that occurs in the moment. You can be content with life, but have momentary sadness, just as you  can be down on life, but have a happy moment. I therefore think happiness (and sadness) is just a state of the mind at any given time. Contentment is the last effect where you are overall at peace with your life.

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Found this definition on wiki: Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being characterized by positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy. (have copied and pasted this)

I found this page rather interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23097143 . I was particularly amused by this quote from it. "Having children lowers your happiness levels, but your happiness increases when they grow up and leave home."

I think that trying to equate a particular individuals happiness levels to which country they are are in is rather too simplistic. Getting a large number of individuals in different countries to give what they think their happiness level is may indicate differences between those countries. Getting that information and what you do with the information then is probably justification for more fonctionaires (good franglais?) .

I do enjoy this forum, though I do get frustrated with some of the comments. I suspect many more people read the post than actually post often themselves. Keep it up, even though Quillan dominates with his obsession with the United States of Europe.
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[quote user="richard51"]Found this definition on wiki: Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being characterized by positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy. (have copied and pasted this)

I found this page rather interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23097143 . I was particularly amused by this quote from it. "Having children lowers your happiness levels, but your happiness increases when they grow up and leave home."

I think that trying to equate a particular individuals happiness levels to which country they are are in is rather too simplistic. Getting a large number of individuals in different countries to give what they think their happiness level is may indicate differences between those countries. Getting that information and what you do with the information then is probably justification for more fonctionaires (good franglais?) .

I do enjoy this forum, though I do get frustrated with some of the comments. I suspect many more people read the post than actually post often themselves. Keep it up, even though Quillan dominates with his obsession with the United States of Europe.[/quote]I think happiness is a bit like good driving - very difficult to define but very easy to spot.[:)]

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I think that people's characters can determine how happy, (or satisfied) they are. I can think of some I know personally who don't ever seem to be happy no matter where they live, or what they do. 

Maybe there is a capacity for happiness in each of us, or what about a happy gene?

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I thank you Frecossais for your contribution-----it's nice to see posters other than the same 7 or 8 who post 90% of the material on here. Read about the possibility of a Happy Gene, Betty : that would be your only hope ; you really have problems.

No-one really addressed the simple question as to whether living in France added to their happiness---most discussed happiness generally and what it might be----something I covered in detail in my O/P so that we could skip over the complex issues  and just answer the simple question: is your own experience of living in France something which adds or detracts from  your overall state of well-being. I am none the wiser because there is very little to go on among the postings on the thread.

I was staggered at how rude Norman was in posting in answer to a harmless and simple question in which I was interested. You have every right, Norman, being disabled to view the PC ( your "window on the world") as being something which adds enormously to your well-being. But, as I said in my O/P I didn't want people's personal happiness levels or details of their lives----just if France had made them happier by the 1% or 5% or whatever our place of abode rates on the happiness barometer. I have no idea why you decided on fury and vitriol, Norman; and I leave you to your own reasons : I have no experience of such depth of hatred over a bland topic : you must be real "wow" when it comes to a controversial topic................

The posts from the other regular daily posters who make this site so small in reality shed no light on whether their French experience had added to their sense of well-being or not.

And this thread completely sums up everything that I have found during my brief time on this Forum : "regulars " who post daily and who are always here -----some for quite understandable reasons ( such as disability), others because they lead a sad life, others because............well, I don't know, nor care.

I joined this Forum expecting at least several dozen posters in the course of a week. Instead I found a very small group of hardened grumpies who just attack the most bland or friendly posting. There were few exceptions, and I welcomed the interest shown by infrequent posters such as Frecossais, whose number of posts shows a very different life to the "regulars" . BTW, I can only scratch my head as to whether Sweet 17 sees anything of France at all , having amassed over 10,000 postings : that means that if she posts 10 times a week, sshe has spent 1,000 days ( and too many hours to contemplate) in sitting at the PC ( and she has my total understanding and support if she, too, is disabled).

I may pop back a few times a year to this site if I have nothing better to do. But I have to say that the Forum is largely ( not wholly-----but very significantly) "populated by a handful of very nasty folk who seem to moan about everything, make no attempt to welcome or encourage new members----it's little wonder that half-a-dozen folk have the Forum mainly to themselves.

I know about REAL happiness and cherish it, whether when living in UK or since moving to France. I was genuinely interested about others' views as to whether France had enhanced their feelings of well-being or not. I'll never know , because there is a distinct absence of "well-being" on this Forum----and it is probably nothing to do with whether you live in France or not. Rudeness is the common theme of this small Forum and its little clique who post on every thread and who make it a most unpleasant site for newcomers to stomach.

I return to Le Grand Bonheur , which is a long way away from this Forum. I pity the Bettys and Normans and ChiefLuvvies and iduns------you can't comment on a harmless and politely-worded thread which I started : because Le Grand Bonheur is something you have never known and seem unlikely to attain in the future.

My wife and I send you commiserations but wish you well for your life on Le Grand Forum [:)]

PS : Zurich was as pleasant as usual , and we shopped till we dropped, but it's not the next visit to a city ( even Paris) that excites us---it's the fun, camaraderie and sheer delight of the grape harvest which will be upon us in about 6 weeks---------yippeeeeeeeeee. Bientot mes grincheuses[;-)]

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