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The rise of the NF


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Their numbers have been steadily increasing for the last few years, this year is however by far the biggest jump now they have seriously made it in to local politics at the last regional elections. Hollande is the best advertisement for them, bit like Labour is for UKIP. I think that if he really does run Sarkozy may well be the next president however. Touch of anyone is better than Hollande therefore better the devil you know etc.
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Has been going on for a while. Béziers among other towns has a Maire supported by the FN.

The reasons are similar to those which account for the rise of UKIP in the UK.

When these parties get into power the emperor's new clothes tend to be seen for what they are

http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2014/09/30/villes-front-national-bilan-six-mois-apres-municipales_n_5898556.html

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[quote user="NormanH"]When these parties get into power the emperor's new clothes tend to be seen for what they are

[/quote]

Quote :

On a une section de footsalle avec beaucoup de Maghrébins qui n'a plus

de créneau horaire pour s’entraîner", s'interroge l'opposant Michel

Dallari.

Point taken.

Sue

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[quote user="NormanH"]Has been going on for a while. Béziers among other towns has a Maire supported by the FN.
The reasons are similar to those which account for the rise of UKIP in the UK.
When these parties get into power the emperor's new clothes tend to be seen for what they are


http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2014/09/30/villes-front-national-bilan-six-mois-apres-municipales_n_5898556.html
[/quote]

One could ask the same of the UKIP councillors and the UKIP MEP's. All I saw was the MEP's not turning up, abstaining or voting “No” (because it is the EU so you always vote "No") even for the removal of roaming charges on mobile phones which will save holidaymakers and those of you who go back and forth from the UK to France a load of grief, no need for two SIMS.

Ask a Kipper what their UK councillors have done, that will keep them occupied for hours trying to find something before they admit defeat. All these groups in all these different EU countries are much of a muchness really and should not be trusted. In some ways I would like to see these parties win and get in  to power. Just one term should be enough to send them all to the political wilderness permanently. 

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Some time last year, I think just after the ?local elections when they did so well, the FN opened an office in the middle of Mirande. But only on market day, when there are lots of people around. I've never seen anyone going in there to join up though.

I would like to go in and ask what their policies are but I'm not brave enough.

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[The European Parliament] Recalls its view that the fiscal situation of Member States can be eased through a new system of own resources to finance the Union budget that will reduce gross national income contributions, thus enabling Member States to meet their consolidation efforts without jeopardising EU funding to support investment in economic recovery and reform measures; underlines, therefore, the importance it attaches to the new high-level group on own resources, which should lead to a true reform of EU financing;”

UKIP voted against that . so they do in fact vote for something important at times . But Lib -Dems and Labor were keen to vote for it... so are you happy they did ...thus giving the right for Brussels to tax you directly ?
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That the FN membership has gone up will mean what exactly at the next elections. It isn't as if millions are signing up.

Remember it wasn't that long ago that Le-Pen was actually in the deuxieme tour de Presidentielles. Now that was serious and disturbed me greatly.

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[quote user="Quillan"]If your white Pat you have nothing to fear. [:-))][/quote]

The most poison FN member I know is not white, he is metis and what I would say was lightish brown skin, his Mother was black, her skin  dark and she was from the french Antilles and this Dad white. His Dad is a difficult man, and his mother, sadly died of cancer, was a wonderful, beautiful woman, both in looks and character.

I have no idea how the FN deals with people of colour to be honest. This young man was accepted, maybe if he had looked as if he were from the maghreb it would have been different.

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I have a feeling in my water that Marine le Pen will be one of the two (if there is a second time round) in 2017, and this time there won't be the same 'front Républicain' against her as there was in 2002 against her father.

I saw this at first hand in Béziers where if either the Socialist candidate or the UMP candidate had withdrawn the present Maire supported by the FN wouldn't have been elected, but neither would support the other.

This  new 'respectability' seems to me to be far more significant than numbers of registered supporters.

I don't think she will win, and I hope that the UMP candidate is Juppé (despite his murky past) or Fillon, rather than Sarkozy (who was and will be  a catastrophe) , since that party seems set to take the election, unless a centre group manages to get its act together.

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[quote user="idun"][quote user="Quillan"]If your white Pat you have nothing to fear. [:-))][/quote]

The most poison FN member I know is not white, he is metis and what I would say was lightish brown skin, his Mother was black, her skin  dark and she was from the french Antilles and this Dad white. His Dad is a difficult man, and his mother, sadly died of cancer, was a wonderful, beautiful woman, both in looks and character.

I have no idea how the FN deals with people of colour to be honest. This young man was accepted, maybe if he had looked as if he were from the maghreb it would have been different.

[/quote]

One of our NF councillors is from North Africa

I think that an explanation of how people drift into positions and situations is difficult, but the wonderful Louis Malle film Lacombe, Lucien offers some insights into how a innocent can get involved with evil

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The thing that puzzles me about the NF here (as opposed to the FN in the UK who I understand better) is the support they get from 10% of the rural population in our commune, and the Gers in general. They rarely see an Arab or a black person, so what do they see in the FN to vote for? Is it because they're an alternative, like UKIP in the UK?

Going back to the presidential election of 2002, we had just arrived in France, and a man working in M. Bricolage said to us, "What kind of a country is this, we have to choose between a criminal and a N..i for president?"

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[quote user="NormanH"]

One of our NF councillors is from North Africa

I think that an explanation of how people drift into positions and situations is difficult, but the wonderful Louis Malle film Lacombe, Lucien offers some insights into how a innocent can get involved with evil

[/quote]

That phrase of yours certainly makes me think that none of this is actually current or indeed new.

There is a famous (or infamous) case of cannibalism in a village called Hautefaye not many miles from where I live.

Quite a few books have been written about le crime de Hautefaye but the one I read recently is by Jean Teulé and is called Mangéz le si vous voulez.

The story, a true one, involves a peaceable young man of an upright character from a respectable familywho went to the foire in Hautefaye during a summer when the Franco-Prussian war was on.

Some people got it into their heads that he was a Prussien and the crowd proceeded to torture him (with great inventiveness) and burnt him whilst he was still alive.  Finally, they dipped their bread in the fat that ran from his body; the women and the children too.

Sometimes this crowd mentality and the loss of individual thought and feeling frighten and appall me.

You can easily google this story but the book itself is very vivid and not recommended to anyone of a sensitive temperament.

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[quote user="Frederick"][UKIP voted against that . so they do in fact vote for something important at times . [/quote]

Oh come on you know as well as I do only a couple turned up to vote anyway and thats on a good day. Ukip MEP's vote "No" to everything the EU trys to implement as a matter of course. It is like an automatic response so they don't have to think. It just so happen that they voted "No" yet again to something you disagree with.

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Sorry to appear to post quickly one after the another but I forgot to hit the Post button for an hour or so.

Anyway the FN is like Ukip in that it is not a racist party, well that’s their official line and both have 'sacked' members who have made racist (or sexist) comments in the past. The problem is both seem to appeal to a certain group within society which is fundamentally racist. Both parties will claim they don't have a problem with ethnic minorities if they were "born and bred" in France or the UK just a problem with current immigrants hence the 'token' Asian, African or Arabic member. I think the biggest giveaway as to the type they seem to appeal to is when you read anything about Ukip or FN then read the readers comments. I am however shore that in both parties there are those that are of course not racist for to claim they all are would be stupid.

Personally I think it would be very dangerous for France if the FN ever got in to government and had a president.

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Isn't it the case that UKIP supporters often live in areas that have few problems, it is how they perceive problems elsewhere that is the thing.

ie I was talking to a friend at the weekend and sadly she (like my Dad) believes everything she reads in the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail, as she said, I know what I have read and so as no one has proved that this is untrue, I shall continue to believe what I read.

I don't see the world like either of them and I consider my self sensible enough to take much reporting with a big pinch of salt.

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I'm sure I will be perceived by some people as being on a slippery slope here, but am I right in seeing parallels between Britain today and Germany in the early 1930s? (Stand by for some nut to invoke "Godwin's Law".)[:(]

In both instances there is a sizeable proportion of the population who believe that their "condition" should be more comfortable than it is.

Along comes a slick talker with a reason for their dissatisfaction. In Germany it was "the Jews", in Britain it is the EU and "immigrants." The EU is crippling Britain with bureaucracy and almost unbearable costs. The immigrants are - simultaneously - taking all our jobs and living off benefits. (I am not comparing the situation in pre-war Germany with present day Britain, merely suggesting that there is a similarity in the messages.)

I recall, after the local elections in Britain, a UKIP spokeswoman suggesting that the reason her party was less successful in London than other areas was that the London population was younger and better educated than in places where they had more support.

 

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No I don't think so CK, I don't think that anyone in UKIP or the BNP has any charisma at all, and I don't think that Farage at least, sounds slick either.

I have read sufficient about Germany in the 20's and 30's and it truly was in a really terrible state and the UK is not, really, it isn't.  Residue of the TGS remains, and from my point of view was an virus that infected a huge percentage of adult society, even when people tell me that they didn't buy into it, I can see that they have, couldn't help themselves, and that just from banal conversations. So people want more and some are feeling the pinch and that is often young people, and that for me is also to do with TGS and the imbalance it has put society in. This imbalance though, is not bad enough for the extreme right to take over.

TGS= Thatcher Greed Syndrome

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Have to say I have watched Farrage a few times on  the TV and YouTube and he is a good orator. His 'data' that he gives out however is often flawed or turned to his advantage, bit like the others in Westminster. I think part of the problem is the current parties. I laughed the other day when a Labour MP said that politicians no longer understood the wants, needs and aspirations of the voters. I thought finally somebody understands even though I and the likes of Tony Benn have being saying that for years. Like it or not Farrage does connect and he pushes all the 'right' buttons for many. Don't take him for a fool because he isn't, he knows exactly what he is doing.
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How can MP's 'connect' as most are career politicians who have never had a job away from politics. Farage is a bit different although a 'commodity broker' hardly qualifies as a normal job. I think UKIP will cause chaos next May which will lead Labour into power by the back door and the UK will start going backwards again.
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[quote user="DraytonBoy"]How can MP's 'connect' as most are career politicians who have never had a job away from politics. Farage is a bit different although a 'commodity broker' hardly qualifies as a normal job. I think UKIP will cause chaos next May which will lead Labour into power by the back door and the UK will start going backwards again.[/quote]

Rather as the LibDems let the present unelected coalition in to pursue policies the majority hadn't voted for?

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Farage tries to pretend that he is different - I guess the pint and the fag are props to underline that - but he was privately educated, spent years in the City and has utilised all his MEP expenses to fund a UK party and fails to vote on EU matters even when that will benefit the UK. So how is he different to other politicians?
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The point I was trying to make earlier - though not very successfully - is that UKIP and Farage have identified insecurities in a sizeable proportion of the electorate and are milking those insecurities for all they are worth. They have identified scapegoats for the insecurities and are using megaphone communication techniques to ensure their messages are received by  their target audience.

For the record - Nigel Farage reminds me of Arthur Daley. However, somehow, he seems to lack Arthur Daley's transparent integrity.

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[quote user="DraytonBoy"]How can MP's 'connect' as most are career politicians who have never had a job away from politics. Farage is a bit different although a 'commodity broker' hardly qualifies as a normal job. I think UKIP will cause chaos next May which will lead Labour into power by the back door and the UK will start going backwards again.[/quote]

I said somewhere else a while back before the Scottish referendum and Ukip were getting a far bit of exposure, think it was about Ukip being able to join the TV debates, that Ukip had given Labour the next election on a plate providing they don't do anything stupid. Unfortunately siding with the Tories over Scotland rather than run their own 'No' campaign has cost them a lot of traditional Scottish Labour voters. They also cocky thinking that Ukip were only taking Tory votes and not theirs, even though Labour is pro EU. Now they find themselves in the same 'firing line' as the Tories. So if I were a betting man I wouldn't place any bets till nearer the time. Actually looking at "oddschecker" most bookies have Labour to win but only by a hair with Ukip coming in third. That said if the Tories don't get on and impliment some of the promises they made to the Scots they may lose any votes they had, and thats not many, in Scotland as well.

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