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Currently being hotly debated is a bill before the French Parliament to allow Sunday opening up to 12 times a year, five automatically and 12 with the mayor's agreement.

What a fuss; in polls, the voting is 67% in favour, but amongst the politicians, what a screaming load of spoilt brats. Those on the left of FHs party are howling that it is bad, bad, bad and that they wont have it, that it is social regression. NOT ONE of them has mentioned the general public or the thousands and thousands of workers who want and need to work on Sundays. These are mainly students or others who need the dough and who depend on it for their living.

Now we have Madame Aubrey (daughter of Jacqes Delors who is not beloved of the British) who had chosen to speak out in very negative terms saying that it will not happen in HER town, Lille, where she is mayor. Again, no consultation as she knows best.

What has happened is that Mr Macron, the red hot Finance minister has introduced a number of small measures which genuinely appeal to the public and has, as a result, isolated small interest groups such as lawyers, huissiers and notaires, as well as the left of his party, and pitted them against the public's approval.

It remains to be seen whether the different elites will dare defend their selfish and elitist position s in the long term, or whether Macron has finally found a wedge, albeit a small one, to start forcing France forward again.
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Found a wedge, yes exactly.

As in, the thin end of the.

How long did it take the UK to get from Sunday opening being permitted, to traffic jams outside retail parks every Sunday? Is that really what France needs? OK it would be a quick fix for the economy but there's no going back once you've destroyed the tradition of respecting the day of rest. If it does turn out there is no way France can struggle through without sacrificing the good things about the French lifestyle, I guess it will have to happen, but I don't believe it's quite got to that point yet.
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But we the politicians of France do not think it is good for you the people who put us into power and by the way, we wont consult you as you will only have been influenced by Anglo-Saxon bad habits. And as we all know, France is different, has its own way of doing things, and is the best of all possible worlds where everthing is peachy and the others are wrong and have buggered up our economy, especially those Germans who have been anti-French for over 150 years or more..
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[quote user="EuroTrash"]Found a wedge, yes exactly.

As in, the thin end of the.

How long did it take the UK to get from Sunday opening being permitted, to traffic jams outside retail parks every Sunday? Is that really what France needs? OK it would be a quick fix for the economy but there's no going back once you've destroyed the tradition of respecting the day of rest. If it does turn out there is no way France can struggle through without sacrificing the good things about the French lifestyle, I guess it will have to happen, but I don't believe it's quite got to that point yet.[/quote]

Day of rest, my elbow. When does the housework get done, the wildlife get shot the football get kicked? I dont see anything good about Sunday closing or that it will damage the supposed wonderful French lifestyle which is now equal shares of inequality and misery all round; no overtime, low wages, overtaxed, corrupt politicians ( one a week so far in the last three months), arrogant politicians out of touch with the people......... one could go on.

People dont have to shop on a Sunday but if they want to, why not? It is not for politicians to decide but people; put it to a referendum and let's see what happens.

And remember that a hell of a lot of people need the money they earn on a Sunday to make ends meet - students, part time workers in other jobs, people with debts to pay..... let them earn for Bobo's sake. Stop controlling them.
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Exactly. When will the housework get done and the wildlife shot and the football kicked and the old folks visited, if Sunday is just like every other day? A day of rest doesn't literally mean a day with your feet up, for most people, it means a rest from the usual routine, a change being as good as a rest.

No people don't have to shop on a Sunday but they will, because they can. It's human nature.

Fear not, it will happen, you'll get your seven day shopping, but if you think it'll do anything to reduce inequality and misery, low wages, overtaxed businesses and corrupt politicians, you're dreaming. Opening shops for longer hours does not in itself create more wealth, consumers still have exactly the same amount of disposable income to spend (apart from those that now work on Sundays). I don't know where you live in France, I live in a fairly poor part but I don't see people slitting their wrists because their life is equal shares of inequality and misery. It's Sunday today and young couples are going past my house pushing prams, the kiddes are all done up in their Sunday best (remember Sunday best?) going to have a meal with their parents and grandparents like they do every Sunday. Sunday has a special feel to it round here, it's different to the other days, people look forward to it. I'd better go and tell them they don't deserve time off, it's a disgrace and they should be ignoring the old folks and worrying about their debts and working same as they do every other day, should I?

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For some Sunday is special - for others, not.  Around here, another pretty poor area, we have our local medium sized supermarket always open Sunday mornings, and another, smaller, but a petrol station, convenience store, and on a main road, open all day ... for many years.

Since I go to church I rarely shop on Sundays, even just before Christmas, but on the few times I've needed to (after church), I go to the always open, and I've yet to see it not well enough patronised to make it worth while opening .. and it is not mainly fuel ... everything from bread to cigs, alcohol to food ..

Opening a few more Sundays during the year will not hurt the cherished (supposed) French way of life - already people find ways of getting time  with the family as well as getting the shopping in ... and what is so different from the boulanger being open daily. 

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ET, how is it that you can read my thoughts and write them down so well?

I think Sunday opening is the most appalling idea and I remember how outraged and sad I was when Sunday opening was nodded through in the UK.

I've done my fair share of working on Sundays (nature of my work) and I can honestly say that I would not wish that on anyone else.

Now, of course, I don't work and, horror of horrors, I overslept this morning but how good it was to think, oh nevermind, it's Sunday and a lie-in never does anyone any harm![:D][:D][:D]

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Thanks Mint, I thought I was going to be all on me lonesome here.

The thing is, unfortunately we're most of us rats in the rat race at heart. As long as the treadmill is turning we feel under pressure, we're getting left behind, we ought to be on it. Young people especially. It's only if there is a deliberate policy of stopping the dam' thing, that folks can feel easy in their minds about taking time out - no difficult choices to make, no guilt, no weighing up quality time with the family versus an extra 100€ in the bank.
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A guest was horrified when I told them UK supermarkets in big cities were open 24/7 and that the DIY shops were open on Sundays. I then explained that in the lead up to christmas the large out of town shopping centres would see millions of visitors on a sunday. But, as I said, nobody is making people use the shops on a sunday neither are people being made to work in them on sundays although they do get paid a lot extra of course.

My personal argument for why I didn't have a problem was working from 8 till 8 in the week I would often meet my wife after work on Friday, go and have a meal then stop at the supermarket at about 22:30 to do the weekly shopping. Once home throw the stuff in the fridge and freezer then relax for the whole weekend, stay in bed, watch TV, do a bit of DIY or go away somewhere. It gave us both so much extra weekend freedom.

With things like DIY shops the young who have their first home for example may spend all weekend painting, decorating etc . Imagine forgetting a widget and it's sunday morning, everything is closed and you can't have water in the house without the widget. Can't go to the shop after work as you work too late so you will have no water till next saturday. Bad planning people will say but it has happened to all of us as some time in our lives.

Supermarkets in France are one of my pet hates, they are run by people who are totally incompetent, staff who don't give a toss and have no idea how to run a business. I mean peak time queues at the checkouts and the staff out stacking shelves? Give me a break. What I didn't know is the weight is limited to 3kg that supermarket staff can carry/lift so they use professional stackers from outside companies. They are like crews that travel around the country so each supermarket has to wait their turn. Probably the reason why the shelf runs out and is not refilled for weeks.

The only thing you will notice with supermarkets open 24/7 and Sunday opening, there are always people in there buying stuff which indicates there is a demand.

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But the very fact that the option is there, puts the pressure on. You have a decision to make, it's heart versus head, head often wins - go earn money, go spend money, put the old folks off until next week or next month.

Somebody please explain to me, how having shops open for longer hours means that people actually have more money to spend. Because to me, it is not logical. I earn Y€ a month, I can only spend X€ a month, even if the shops are open 24/7/365. Shops being open will not increase my disposable income.

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Can I presume ET and Mint that on a Sunday:

you do not turn on the radio

watch TV

use the phone

use the Internet (oh sorry, you are on a Sunday)

use any electricity

take extreme care not to injure yourself and require medical assistance

travel by any form of transport

stay in hotels

dine in restaurants

drink in bars

etc etc

because all of the above require people to work on a Sunday. So if we take it that we want to do / use any of the above then why should we not want to shop - why are shop workers to be treated as a special case.

Here in the UK if I am doing any DIY and I require something for it I can go and get it. In France forget it....well, for me now it is forget it. A branch of BricoMarche nearby used to open on a Sunday (and not close for lunch during the week). Alas it has changed ownership. No Sunday opening and closes for lunch.
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[quote user="EuroTrash"]But the very fact that the option is there, puts the pressure on. You have a decision to make, it's heart versus head, head often wins - go earn money, go spend money, put the old folks off until next week or next month.

[/quote]

It's a simple decision - either you do not want to go shopping on Sunday, or you do. Are you saying that you are so weak willed that if the shops opened on Sunday, you would be unable to resist the temptation to go shopping?

That's a sorry case.......
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[quote user="EuroTrash"]But the very fact that the option is there, puts the pressure on. You have a decision to make, it's heart versus head, head often wins - go earn money, go spend money, put the old folks off until next week or next month. Somebody please explain to me, how having shops open for longer hours means that people actually have more money to spend. Because to me, it is not logical. I earn Y€ a month, I can only spend X€ a month, even if the shops are open 24/7/365. Shops being open will not increase my disposable income.[/quote]

For the individual it's not about spending more, it is the convince. For the shops it probably adds a small amount to their annual turnover. I am sure there are some stats around if you go look for them.

The bottom line is you can't be forced to work on a Sunday, you can't be forced to go shopping on Sunday, both are personal choices. If there was no 'need' then the shops would all be closed on Sundays.

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[quote user="EuroTrash"]. I don't know where you live in France, I live in a fairly poor part but I don't see people slitting their wrists because their life is equal shares of inequality and misery. It's Sunday today and young couples are going past my house pushing prams, the kiddes are all done up in their Sunday best (remember Sunday best?) going to have a meal with their parents and grandparents like they do every Sunday. Sunday has a special feel to it round here, [/quote]

There is a special feel about it around here, one of desolation and sadness especially for those on the margins or who do not form part of a large family who are working away from home etc.

I did my usual 10 mile run this morning with a friend, we passed through 6 villages and the main town between 11 and 12.30, how many people did we see in that time, just one, a nutter in car that having driven past us very close at high speed then did U turns to do the same thing 3 more times on the same road within 10 minutes. Even all the cafes and restaurants in town were closed with the shutters down at noon.

I can only speculate on what goes on in these foyers based on what I witnessed when I was naive enough to accept invitations ad from seeing the Gendarmes called out for domestic violence, it seems that families drink and eat to excess and then either sleep it off or if they have the energy set to each other.

My clients are workers away from home, their hours mean they cannot shop in the week which means they have to spend saturday buying food and the esssentials, but not between 12.00 and 14.00 as all the shops apart from the supermarkets have the shutters down, that leaves Sunday for leisure except there is nothing for them within 100kms, they are both away today, one in Bruxelles the other I dont know where but it will be far away.

Travel around the Rocade of any large agglomeration like Lille, Amiens, Arras on a Sunday and you will see vehicles, follow them and they will lead you to a centre commercial with a couple of family restaurants that are open and heaving with customers around them will be other enlightened shops etc that have found a way to open on Sundays and the hours where others close in order to profit from the footfall.

Flunch have opened up nearly on my doorstep, great for my business, people said that it would never work as people around here dont eat out, well thats no surprise with the existing restaurants either being closed or refusing to serve people and as I though the Flunch is always heaving, not only their car park full but that of the 3 other shops in the small centre commercial.

The other shops are a budget cloths shop, a budget housewares shop like Gifi and a high end kitchen shop, a bit odd that one for our area, do they profit from the massive footfall lunchtime and evenings? Do they hell! they forcibly eject you 20 minutes before lunchtime and have the solid steel shutters down before any of the people arrive and after they have left, they take a 2 hour lunch break at the very time when 95% of the days footfall arrives.

There is a new built Champion right next to the motorway exit, cost millions to build and resembles a Tesco superstore, Tescos would be open 24 hours a day to get the best return on their investment, there are shelf stackers in the store so why not open if for customers, it only needs one person on hand to oversee the self serve cash registers.

The new Champion? its closed all day every Monday and there are no shelf stackers, nobody at all Inside as witnesssed by the couple of robberies they have had. I should also add that in the main town its only the foodshops open on Mondays, all the banks, inurance agents etc are closed.

Around here the only people who are willing to work between 12 and 2, on Sundays and Mondays are the robbers as they know full well the Gendarmes wont be even if they are being paid to do so.

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I cannot imagine anyone in France who needs to shop on a Sunday - 35/39hr week sees to that. However if people want to, why not?

I have no need and can barely remember a few occasions when I have taken advantage except for exhibitions and fairs, where I have had to go out and buy on a Sunday. (And when I arrived in Germany, shops still shut at 13:00 Saturday until 08:00 Monday - the exception being bakers, who opened at 06:00 Monday.)

But if others have a need, or want to shop on a Sunday, who am I to say that tradition says that they must not?
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As with a lot of things here it will end up being a fudge when it should simply be shops either can or can't open on a Sunday.

I've no feelings either way, I used to regularly shop on Sundays in the UK but have got used to places being closed here. If I could change one thing it would be the closing at lunchtime madness. The cost to the economy for shop and office workers to go home at 12 every day must be huge.
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France is in the Dark Ages as far as customer service goes. Giving customers what they want, whether thats honest pricing, enforceable warranties or even something as simple as opening on a Sunday or at lunchtime is such an alien concept that it probably wont be happening any time soon.

Its not the 1950`s any more and if France wants to shake off the image it seems to be gaining as the joke economy of Europe then it needs to at least pretend that its the 21st Century.

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I do sometimes feel that in rural France or even semi rural France the attitude of shops is you get what you're given rather than get what you really want. It's sort of that or nothing or go somewhere else (with a smile) when they know that it will take an hour’s round trip to get an alternative.

You do 'adapt', something which us Brits are particularly very good at doing. If you know you can't beat the system directly then you work round it or use it to your advantage. For DIY for instance I save up all my jobs over a two month period during which I make a very detailed list of exactly what I want then head of to Perpignan where there is one Brico Depot, two Leroy Merlin and lots of other DIY shops. I plan my visit so I hit some shops that stay open at lunch time at lunch time so as not to waste any time. It is a full day trip real and so important that you make your detailed list and even translate the names of things as well just to be safe.

You notice the difference in the way the French think as well, take Leroy Merlin as an example. Two shops, one at either side of Perpignan. Ask one if they have something and if they don't ask them if they can check on the computer if the other shop has it which strangely they can't. You ask them to phone the other shop and they ask why (with a strange lok on their face) so you tell them to ask if they have the part then get them to tell the person to save it for you and the name of said person. It's like nobody has ever done this before or nobody has ever thought of it before.

One thing I do hear from Brits when I walk round these places is the standard "well you would never get away with that back home (UK)" or "that’s not the way we would do it". The thing is the French may look the same as us but they are quite different or we are quite different to them and it is the same with other European nationalities. In fact we are all quite different and when people say you need to integrate it's not really the talking French bit and making French friends it's actually understanding the French and that how they think is different to us then try and think the same. I'm only whinging and not really complaining because it all makes our life here different to that in the UK and is all part of life’s rich tapestry I suppose. If I really didn't like it I could leave, as could others, but I don't. In a bizarre way I actually like it and all these things are problems to overcome and beat.

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+1 to Q's last post.

A week ago we did exactly the same and planned a tour of four different DIY/electrical stores to get the final bits to finish part one of our renovation. After an hour and a half we came out of Brico Depot (our last stop) and realised that we had got everything on our list. We felt like opening a bottle of bubbly to celebrate as this doesn't normally happen. In the UK we would have just gone to B &Q after checking on-line that they had everything.

I've also never bought into the integration bit. I'm happy to act and think like a Frenchie although I draw the line at going to the supermarket in my slippers.
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I'm with Mint and Eurotrash on this one because although I'm not particularly religious I used to like the idea that one day was different rather than them all being the same.

Q I think your idea that people don't have to work on Sundays is a little optimistic. That may be the letter of the law but I know that it would be very difficult for the women who work in my nearest supermarket to say no.

You might like to know of my most recent customer experience in a large French DIY shed in Sarlat.

We were buying a shower enclosure to bring back to the UK. We've been hunting without success for one that would fit our English ensuite. We were surprised to find one in France that we liked the style of and would fit and were in the process of buying it.

I was sort of musing aloud really and said to the salesman that I found it a little odd that when we could buy so much stuff that was made in China we rarely saw things like bathroom fittings made in France in English shops. He smirked and said that it is because the French don't like the English. I laughed and asked him why not and he said it was because of King Richard.

He wasn't joking. I didn't buy the shower enclosure and I still haven't found one here. Clearly he wasn't working on commission.
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I have noticed when talking with my neighbors over getting parts on line and delivered to repair stuff. They would rather drive miles for a part or replace the item . I had assistance from my neighbor to get a part on line that I wanted and was delighted at how much I was saving including postage . When I suggested they save the site for future use they said no as they would never ever disclose their bank card details even to Paypal . Is this common practice compared with us Brits buying stuff on line ?

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[quote user="Frederick"]I have noticed when talking with my neighbors over getting parts on line and delivered to repair stuff. They would rather drive miles for a part or replace the item . I had assistance from my neighbor to get a part on line that I wanted and was delighted at how much I was saving including postage . When I suggested they save the site for future use they said no as they would never ever disclose their bank card details even to Paypal . Is this common practice compared with us Brits buying stuff on line ?[/quote]

Internet buying in France has come on leaps and bounds in the last ten years but still the French have a problem with it. Some French are quite happy to use PayPal but many prefer to pay by cheque. It is surprising at first the attitude of using cheques in France as opposed to the UK. I bought a car for €18k, wrote out a cheque and drove away, you would never, ever, do that in the UK. Having said that even the Dutch, who live in a cheque less society and do everything online, have a problem with PayPal. We now have Payleven and accept debit/credit cards but only with 'customer present'. Strangely it can't print a receipt unless you buy a special printer for around €300 which I refuse to do so they enter their email address and it sends the receipt there. I thought people might not use the system because of that but they do and seem quite happy.

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