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Charlie Hebdo


Pickles
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[quote user="woolybanana"]About ruddy time too! They have got away with far too much.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more, Wooly.

I well remember a few years ago when I was stating how much trouble would be caused in France, Britain etc by such people, I was roundly excoriated for being a racist!

[Www]

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And we didn't define a whole section of the British public after Hungerford or Dunblane... which, while the perpetrators weren't terrorists in the strict defintion of the term, certainly achieved whatever warped intention they had in mind.

But that doesn't ignore the fact there are a lot of devastated families this afternoon whose days started perfectly normally but whose lives will never be the same...

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The civilised world will never be the same whilst murdering scum such as these are allowed to breath.

I too spoke about the risk as far back as the early 90's. Not PC to do so of course!

Condolences to the victims and families.
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I felt sick to my core when I saw this. All attacks upset me, but this is attacking our civil liberties.

I am sure that in the past french governments have wanted rid of the damned pest that is Charlie Hebdo, but when it boils down to it, they too know that it represents the good side of democracy.

My thoughts can only go to all those hurt and killed in this attack and to their families.

 

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It is a terrible thing and it must be awful for the friends and the relations of the victims.

However we should not let it be used as an excuse for clamping down on ordinary peaceful Muslims. While it seems that most terrorists are Muslims we must remember that most muslims aren't terrorists
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I can only comment on what is presented in the UK media but from that it would seem that extremist Imams in mosques are not forced out by the moderate members - that seems to me to condone the extremists. Is this also the case in France?
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I hope it isn't the first round of an escalation towards a sort guerilla war. I have previously predicted a serious problem in France and this  resembles in some aspects what happened in  Algeria, but with the addition of 60 years of such mouvements as Al Queda and ISIS.

The videos give the impression of a military operation, not of an act of folly.

There is a very strange feeling in the air in the quartier populaire in which I live, a sort of triumphalism among the young dealers etc  as if to say "we have scored a goal...."

This is nothing like the news bulletins which are giving the official version saying that 'we are all united against this barbarism'

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[quote user="bonemachine"][quote user="You can call me Betty"]#jesuischarlie.[/quote]

+1

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Je-suis-Charlie/1534071683508842?sk=photos

[/quote]

me too.

A very dark day for freedom of the press/freedom of speech. RIP.

At Place de la République this evening people will gather in support of Charlie Hebdo at 5:30pm.

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[quote user="Pickles"]I sincerely hope that all the French press carry the "offensive" cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo on their front pages.

[/quote]

I think you might find that the action carried out this morning means the Muslim fanatics and cowards who gunned down unarmed people have already won .

They have done what they set out to do Instill fear and after this it will not be only French publications I suspect who will hold back on what they publish for fear of a revenge attack . I imagine the ones who carried out the attack have been told their place in paradise is now guaranteed for them and others will want to follow them... As long as the Muslim communities hold back on denouncing those among them who they know are likely end up carrying out these attacks and sit back and see them being praised when they do there will be no end to the actions we have seen today . IMO our grandchildren may find they have to live with and fight a civil war to decide if Europe becomes Islamic or not . A situation we will have created for them . Those of us old enough to look back on and remember the bad days of Northern Ireland where streets of families on the "wrong " side were burnt out of their homes must like me be wondering if we will be seeing it again after what happened today the worst attack on Paris since WW2 ....
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GG wrote (and it has been echoed elsewhere:

'A very dark day for freedom of the press/freedom of speech. RIP.'

The BBC News website has an article about Charlie Hebdo:

------------------------------------------------------------------

The paper's origins lie in another satirical publication called Hara-Kiri which made a name for itself in the 1960s.

In 1970 came the famous moment of Charlie's creation. Two dramatic events were dominating the news: a terrible fire at a discotheque which killed more than 100 people; and the death of former President Gen Charles de Gaulle.

Hara-Kiri led its edition with a headline mocking the General's death: "Bal tragique a Colombey - un mort", meaning "Tragic dance at Colombey [de Gaulle's home] - one dead."

The subsequent scandal led to Hara-Kiri being banned. To which its journalists promptly responded by setting up a new weekly - Charlie Hebdo.

The Charlie was not an irreverent reference to Charles de Gaulle, but to the fact that originally it also re-printed the Charlie Brown cartoon from the United States.

---------------------------------------------------------------

So the French authorities banned Hara-Kiri but now talk about freedom of the press and that terrorist acts should not close it
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Paul wrote :

I can only comment on what is presented in the UK media but from that it would seem that extremist Imams in mosques are not forced out by the moderate members - that seems to me to condone the extremists. Is this also the case in France?

I believe in the Koran it is forbidden for a Muslim to hand over a fellow Muslim to a none Muslim for punishment .

So I have been told ...
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There are so many thoughts going around in my head ....

 

It seems to me that one of the major problems is that there is no centralised authority in Islam. Any imam is his own authority, so a "radical" is as free to propagate his own interpretations of Islamic scripture as any "moderate". Over the centuries, a kind of consensus about the scriptures seems to have developed - but it is only a consensus.

I remember the cartoons. I did not see them as insulting Islam but commenting on attitudes and behaviour of some muslims. Even the portrayal of the prophet is not traditionally considered forbidden - in times past, the artistic portrayal of the prophet was common.

The right of anyone to believe whatever he wishes should be respected. That respect, however, should not be extended to his beliefs. The concepts of blasphemy and heresy have no place in a civilised society.

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Ah, I see the "Nice Muslim up the street" argument is alive and well, still: as are the cosy spectacles of the Liberal Imperative.

One of the best destructions of such argument I have heard was mounted by the speaker (Below).

It must be remembered, I feel, a majority of adherents to the Islamic religion come from a wholly different cultural and intellectual background, to other Europeans fortunate enough to enjoy the luxury of well ordered societies benefiting from freedom and education.

Knowledge of Iran post the Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution, shows how the Mullahs and the Imams "instructing" the people were themselves ignorant rabble rousers who wielded Koran and Hadiths as absolutism: and the "nice" people bowed to the inevitable and conformed. Rather than decide on apostasy, or starting yet another schism and a new sect.

Here:

Ah well, I suppose we must now set out to destroy the works of Chaucer, Rabelais, Molière,Swift, Alexander Pope, Voltaire, Hogarth,et al, just in case we offend somebody.......

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[quote user="powerdesal"]Catalpa wrote:......''And we didn't define a whole section of the British public after Hungerford or Dunblane''

Didn't we ?

The whole shooting community was effectively punished for the actions of a couple of nut cases.[/quote]

Indeed, PD; and post Snowdrop and the subsequent cack handed law, gun crimes in the UK have ceased, haven't they!

[Www]

No doubt the Met's Operation Trident (and its successor) is just to avoid any real work........

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I think that disgusting defamation of people's deeply felt beliefs goes far beyond freedom of expression, and is actually a deliberate intent to offend, not a particularly witty and artistic creation.

Preaching on the rights to freedom of expression is a little curious on a forum where you can't even say shit if you step in it [8-)]

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