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French Inheritance Law


Bilko
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My wife and I recently bought a property in La Creuse in joint names.  We are both in our second marriage, I have three children, and my wife has none.  We have no children of our union.

 

The completion of the sale went through smoothly, and it was not until afterwards that we discovered to our horror that, if I predecease my wife, my children could throw her out of her home without compunction, as it appears that this is their right under French Inheritance Law.  It seems we should have requested a Clause Tontine to be inserted in the final documentation.  This has become a source of great worry to me.  Does anyone know if it’s possible to have this Clause added now, some months after completion?

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The tontine clause may not have been suitable for you and in any event, it has to be included in the acte de vente at the time of signing. 

The French notaires website has a useful article on [url=http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/notaires.nsf/0/DEF26419338D35A4C1256E45002C0BCC/$file/famille.pdf]rights of the surviving spouse[/url]

 

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bilko

in any event the tontine clause is not normally suitable for any property over 150 000 euros.  you could look at the "change of matrimonial regime" route which allows the remaining spouse to retain a life interest in the property and do as he/she wishes with it for the duration of their life.  or, you could explore carefully with a notaire the implications of making out a french will that gives you some leeway in what you wish to happen to your french estate 

i think you will find quite a bit about change of matrimonial regime on the forum.  i posed a question about it recently and had some excellent advice from forum members

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Bilko

Your circumstances are exactly the same as ours except for the number of children  and, with the advice of a Notaire, we have recently completed a DONATION ENTRE EPOUX to protect my wife's interests should I predecease her.

 We were actually told by French friends that we should complete a  donation universelle but when we initially spoke to the Notaire we were told that was not the route to go.

So all is not lost.

Benjamin

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

bilko

in any event the tontine clause is not normally suitable for any property over 150 000 euros.  you could look at the "change of matrimonial regime" route which allows the remaining spouse to retain a life interest in the property and do as he/she wishes with it for the duration of their life.  or, you could explore carefully with a notaire the implications of making out a french will that gives you some leeway in what you wish to happen to your french estate 

i think you will find quite a bit about change of matrimonial regime on the forum.  i posed a question about it recently and had some excellent advice from forum members

[/quote]

Not strictly true. The surviving spouse in a tontine clause becomes the owner on death of the other party as if he/she had purchased it originally in a sole name and will be theirs to do with it as they please. The value of the property is immaterial. Only the remaining estate is classed as inheritance under the normal French rules. Each inheritor has then an allowance of 130K euros before any inheritance tax is payable.(That figure rises with inflation from time to time). The surviving spouse will own some of that also. When this surviving spouse dies and assuming the property is not sold the inheritance tax is then punitory. (Around 60% so I believe).

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[quote user="Benjamin"]Bilko

Your circumstances are exactly the same as ours except for the number of children  and, with the advice of a Notaire, we have recently completed a DONATION ENTRE EPOUX to protect my wife's interests should I predecease her.

[/quote]

Yes, my late husband and I - in similar circumstances - were advised to do that, and it worked fine when it came to the point. The fact that there was a real French piece of paper in existence somewhere (we never actually were sent a copy; it stayed at the notaire's) smoothed the path hugely I am sure. It was very cheap to do (can't remember how much now).

Angela

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We paid the Notaire 168,60€ which included a fee for the document being registered centrally so any Notaire can check it's existence in the future.

We were sent a copy by the Notaire when he forwarded his invoice. The cost covered an initial consultation with his partly qualified (Notaire) wife lasting about 40 minutes and then a meeting with him lasting about another 30 minutes when we actually signed the documents.

He also provided, included in the cost, an English speaking translator who we went for a coffee with afterwards and when we tried to pay for the translation was when we discovered that the Notaire was covering his costs.

We'll use this Notaire again if we ever need one.

Benjamin

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I can't remember how much ours cost but it was a last minute decision by my husband when we bought a property together.  We were actually at the Notaires to sign for the house when he decided and they just ran off a copy of the standard document and we signed it and left with it in our hands.

I have just asked him and he thinks it was free.  I think we paid something though.

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I've been reading this interest. I've just looked at all our paper work for our French house and, eventhough we regested a Tontine clause, I can't see that one has been added.

From this thread, I think I'll need to find an english speaking notaire ( I'm not confident enough to trust my French) to sort us out.  We bought our house in January 2004. We're both divorced and have lived together for 15years. We both have children from our respective marriages, but whilst I'm quite happy to let my half go to my children, my partner does not want to leaven anything to his.  So any one know of an english speaking notaire in the La Chatre (36) area??

 

 

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