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[quote user="andyh4"] You may get a pension that is frozen and eroded by inflation year on

year and eventually becomes all but worthless. This is the situation in

our "close" Commonwealth friends in Aus and NZ.

Pensions aren't frozen in all countries .

          

and don't worry Chateaubrian you can still vote for the left,

Well maybe he can, but I cannot. I am disenfranchised by a UK law, which is at least unusual within Europe if not the world. I pay taxes to three different nations and yet a, now barred from voting for any of their national Governments who set the taxes I am forced to pay.

You knew that scenario would arise when you moved abroad and yet you still moved, as for being unusual it appears not, as you are moaning about not getting a vote in three countries. I pay taxes in France and get no say in how they are spent but so do lots of other holiday home owners.

 

Well in a different situation from that before, just maybe they would welcome a renegade Scottish desire to join the EU.

The previous scenario was a region wanting to declare independence from an EU state and still retain EU membership. The new potential scenario is a part of a former EU state, that has left the EU wishes to proclaim its independence and return to its EU home. Tell the story the right way and even the Spanish can be convinced to support it

I'm afraid Andy your living in cloud cuckoo land if you believe that.  The Spanish might? and pigs might fly,  Anyway the Scots voted against Independence so how could they join the EU if they are part of the UK. Or are you a member of the Sturgeon/Salmond brigade who still insist they never lost?

[/quote]

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I agree that pensions are not frozen in all countries, but on what basis do you believe that an independent UK would not freeze pensions for those that have left the UK?

When I moved, I did not know the situation - more fool me you could say - but really I had little choice. It was move and stay in your job, or stay and lose your job. I do not regret the decision.

As for voting I do not object to not being able to vote in all the countries where I pay tax; I do object in not being able to vote in any of them.

The UK leaving the EU is, IMHO, a big enough constitutional change to allow the Scots a re-run on an independence vote. (Certainly S and S would be likely to use it as an excuse). And I think that in the changed situation they could well win. I certainly know a number of no voters who want to remain in the EU and who would change to a yes vote in the above situation.
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[quote user="andyh4"]I agree that pensions are not frozen in all countries, but on what basis do you believe that an independent UK would not freeze pensions for those that have left the UK?

The same basis that you think they would, opinion.

When I moved, I did not know the situation - more fool me you could say - but really I had little choice. It was move and stay in your job, or stay and lose your job. I do not regret the decision.

You've answered that yourself, horses and stable doors.

 As for voting I do not object to not being able to vote in all the countries where I pay tax; I do object in not being able to vote in any of them

What I don't understand is; how if you are still

working that you have to pay tax in the UK, my understanding is that

only government retirees have to pay tax on their pensions in the UK.
As for the not being able to vote, take that up with the country you are resident in

 The UK leaving the EU is, IMHO, a big enough constitutional change to allow the Scots a re-run on an independence vote. (Certainly S and S would be likely to use it as an excuse). And I think that in the changed situation they could well win. I certainly know a number of no voters who want to remain in the EU and who would change to a yes vote in the above situation 

  I also know a lot of English who wish them well, but winning a referendum doesn't give them automatic entrance into the EU Also the threat of Scotland voting for independence if the MAJORITY of the UK vote to leave the EU; certainly wont change many peoples vote            .[/quote]

.

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Nicola Sturgeon has spelled out that among the factors that could trigger a second Scottish referendum would be a SNP majority after the next Scottish parliament elections due in 2016 - by no means a foregone conclusion as they use a proportional system, a UK decision to leave the EU if  Scotland votes to stay in in that referendum or if the UK parliament repeals the Human Rights Act. I suspect that the EU might be more sympathetic to a Scottish application if the UK was leaving but time will tell.
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Hmmm...Nicola Sturgeons party does have only 56 votes in the UK, so for all her demands she is batting on a sticky wicket., having shot herself firmly in the foot ....In addition now the SNP have seats at Westminster they will start to be criticised just like other MPs, errors and mistakes will happen and they may find they have 'peaked' as far as Westminster is concerned.
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Quote NickP

Andyh4 wrote:

 As for voting I do not object to not being able to vote in all the countries where I pay tax; I do object in not being able to vote in any of them

Unquote Andyh4

What I don't understand is; how if you are still

working that you have to pay tax in the UK, my understanding is that

only government retirees have to pay tax on their pensions in the UK

Unquote NickP

Unfortunately Nick, your knowledge (lack thereof) of tax legislation shows up very clearly in this post. I could have rental income in the UK . I could have investments in the UK which are taxed there. My OH does have a pension from the UK which is considered for tax in the UK (and also in France).

I am retired but receive no UK pension (yet). I could be considered for UK capital gains tax on disposal of assets (I wish). I could go on for pages and pages, but I won't

NickP wrote:

As for the not being able to vote, take that up with the country you are resident in

Unquote

Your knowledge of voting legislation within the EU is as weak as that of your tax legislation.

To vote in Germany (where I currently draw a state pension and work pensions) I have to be German, or have at least a Grandparent who was registered as German or Austrian nationality, or (recently) to opt for German nationality - normally taken at 18 years of age by third generation Turkish or former Yugoslav residents.

To take up French voting rights, I have to become French (and frankly after just a few years here permanently I would not be up to the oral interrogation).

The fact is that throughout Europe, your voting rights are determined by nationality not residence. I could live to be 100 years old, I could move to the USA, to Mali or stay in France and at the end no matter what, I WOULD STILL BE BRITISH. (Sorry for shouting but you have to understand what seems to be beyond your comprehension or maybe just knowledge.) As such under the current standard I wold expect to be able to vote in the UK. Germans can move abroad and still vote in Germany. The French have a seat specifically for ex-patriot French voters. The UK say FO.

On a different note I truly wish the forum gurus c/would sort out the SH1TE that is the quote (un)function on this site. NickP clearly has no problems in using the quote button but I and a lot of other find it delivers nothing but gibberish and recouping the situation leads to very messy posting as noted above.

But I am guessing this will fall on deaf ears - AGAIN. (Did you hear that? No I thought not)
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 Andy don't worry about the  messy posting as it matches your thinking and arrogance that you are right, If you want to vote in France/Germany become a French/German citizen, it's not rocket science. As for the UK telling you to FO I'm in total agreement with that as I don't want people who don't live in my part of the world trying to influence my lifestyle. Also I still think I'm right that only Government pensions are taxed in the UK with no choice, apart from that you can choose to pay your tax in the country of fiscal residence. I will now withdraw from this discussion as all you are doing is going round in circles, also your ramblings are full of ifs and but and maybe. By by.[:D]

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Sorry for the continued arrogance, but this should set you straight.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/411884/france.pdf

You are right that Government pensions are taxed in the UK, but wrong on just about everything else. In my limited experience you never have a choice of where you pay tax, so there is no choice about paying in your country of residence or not.
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That link is not really correct or very badly worded and misleading, IMO bien sur!

Double taxation agreements

‘Double

taxation agreements’ mean that you should not be taxed twice on the same

income by two different governments. The UK has double taxation

agreements with many countries.

A double taxation agreement may

be used (if one exists) with regard to UK pensions. If you are

non-resident, you should still pay UK tax on your UK pensions; however,

you will not have to do so if the country you have moved to has a double

taxation agreement with the UK.

 IF someone gets say a teacher's pension, although there are plenty of other 'government' pensions available to former employees, then these are taxed in the UK even if one lives abroad and ofcourse one is not taxed on them again in France.

If say a french teacher moved to the UK, then their pension would be taxed at source in France (special rates for those living abroad incidentally).

Here is the french tax form with all the countries and the government pensions are called 'publique' in french. There are similar rules available from HMRC, but this is the one I have to hand.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptive_5349/fichedescriptive_5349.pdf

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FFS Nick P (taking the P?)

Do you think some pox ridden law firm trumps the treaty between the UK and France? Dog help us all. Perhaps the treaty used long words you cannot understand.

There is nothing in their all too brief and incomplete summary that contradicts the treaty, but if you want to extract a single phrase out of context to prove your point, please feel free. Dog help anyone who uses your posts as the true position. And the only reason I have posted is in case some poor newbie come along and believes the crap you have posted.

Anyway unlike you, and your statement that is me out of here. Discussing with a brick wall is as intellectually stimulating as scrubbing the front step with a tooth brush.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I'm not sure where the original quote is from ...

[quote user="idun"]Double taxation agreements

‘Double

taxation agreements’ mean that you should not be taxed twice on the same

income by two different governments. The UK has double taxation

agreements with many countries.[/quote]

With a double taxation agreement in place, you may have to pay tax on the same income to two different governments. However, the double taxation agreement generally means that where this happens, you receive credit against tax due in your country of residence for the tax paid in the country in which the income arose.

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I have just been catching up on the forum and came across this thread.

someone posted '' My guess is that UKIP's primary appeal is to relatively unsophisticated voters whose voting behaviour is somewhat tribal.''

Could whoever please define 'unsophisticated' in the context of voters as to me, it sounds somewhat condescending and arrogant.
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[quote user="woolybanana"]'a man who is thought to be typical of drivers of white vans by being being rude, not well educated and having very strong, unpleasant opinions.' (Cambridge Dictionaries Online)[/quote]

A description obviously dreamed up by a pompous self styled intellectual, probably a retired school teacher?. I  love the fact that people who think that because they've got one or two GCSE's they have the right to belittle the ordinary working man.

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[quote user="NickP"][quote user="woolybanana"]'a man who is thought to be typical of drivers of white vans by being being rude, not well educated and having very strong, unpleasant opinions.' (Cambridge Dictionaries Online)[/quote]

A description obviously dreamed up by a pompous self styled intellectual, probably a retired school teacher?. I  love the fact that people who think that because they've got one or two GCSE's they have the right to belittle the ordinary working man.
[/quote]But not without a certain amount of truth. I suppose whether a remark is judged to be inappropriate or not depends on when and where it is made
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[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="NickP"][quote user="woolybanana"]'a man who is thought to be typical of drivers of white vans by being being rude, not well educated and having very strong, unpleasant opinions.' (Cambridge Dictionaries Online)[/quote]

A description obviously dreamed up by a pompous self styled intellectual, probably a retired school teacher?. I  love the fact that people who think that because they've got one or two GCSE's they have the right to belittle the ordinary working man.

[/quote]But not without a certain amount of truth. I suppose whether a remark is judged to be inappropriate or not depends on when and where it is made[/quote]

One of my favourite internet toys is the Google Ngram viewer. This checks through all the books that Google has in its digital database (and that's really quite a lot) for the occurence of various words or phrases. You'll find - if you look there - that "self-styled intellectual" has been used pretty consistently since the mid-1950s, while "white van man" hit the reading public only in the year 2000. An early sighting of "white van man" was in a book about "Future Consumers", written by someone who might best be described as a futurologist. He's seems to be entirely non-judgmental, too.

More to the point, the futurologist doesn't seem to be a "retired school teacher" at all.

Definitions aren't insults: they are what people mean when they use the words. The words may be insulting, of course.

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