The Riff-Raff Element Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Mind you, Pat, for more than a few people, downshifting to the rural idyll can quickly lose its charm when they end up skint and bored out of their tiny minds in the middle of nowhere. If they do scrape togather a few shekels to go out for drink to drown their sorrows they're stymied because the nearest bar is 15km distant and closes at 7pm when everyone else goes home for their tea and a spot of bestiality, or, if they're lucky, incest. Alcoholism, divorce and repatriation quickly follow. OK, a touch tongue in cheek, but I have seen something like this come to pass more than once when people haven't the faintest idea that rural France does entail being more than 10 minutes from a 24 hour Tesco superstore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 There's a lot of truth in what you say, Jon, but the degeneration would probably arrive quicker in the Scottish Highlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Catalpa, a very interesting post. Yes, [:D] 'my' France always felt different to the France that most others would post about. AND do you know, it still does. There are some things that are mentioned and I often wonder just how other posters 'live' alongside their neighbours and their place within their community. Because for all I agree with this ............couples / families / individuals who can be socially self-sufficient when necessary do far better from what I can see. Yes, I reckon that one has to be resilient to make such a move...... and I'll say a bit odd, because I reckon that that helps too. Then I also believe that most humans are social animals.RRE, certainly done that, all those apero and meals we were invited to by the curious. However, I will say that those that did invite us, had 'open' natures, as many in our village did not dare even speak to us, never mind suggest that we go into their homes. And we continued to have good social contact with most of these 'curious' souls and these friendships were only ever thrown into dis-array when familes ended up warring or divorces became acrimonious and basically village politics meant that sides were taken, even if we didn't want to get involved.And some of those, who I found out later, were afraid to speak to us initially, are now very good and close friends........ they became friends eventually, because these things take time.In the beginning I may have spoken really lousy french, but speak I did, and to just about anyone, anywhere.......I'd be curious, often amuse and usually be self effacing because I had to be with my lousy french.......... and gradually I got to know more and more people, especially in my village, some not worth knowing, others I would like, and cultivated friendships. IF I hadn't made that decision to jump in and 'speak', how could I have lived a full life, remember I was quite young when I got to France. I know I am resilient, but I had no intention of being completely self absorbed and insular....... or lonely. Were my requirements that different because of my age........ ? maybe they were. I just know that from my shy youth, I changed and I am still dead gobby and will speak to anyone, anywhere. I am happy in my own company, I am happy when we as a couple spend much time together. And I am happy when I see or talk to friends or make new friends because I still do. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basquesteve Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Riff-Raff Element" Said Mind you, Pat, for more than a few people, downshifting to the rural idyll can quickly lose its charm when they end up skint and bored a spot of bestiality, or, if they're lucky, incest. Alcoholism, divorce and repatriation quickly follow. .Sounds fun can you introduce me to one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Guess Norman will be repatriated soon, then, having being through the rest of the gamut; though he did stop for a long time on bestiality! Though I did understqnd tht incest came much further up the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't think there's any great mystery about all this.As people we're all different, we all need different things to make us happy.If you come to France but some of the things you need to make you happy aren't here, or aren't accessible to you because you lack the confidence or the social skills - pubs, nights out with the lads, whatever - France won't do it for you. If you are a sociable person and you always enjoyed being with people in the UK and you can't be in France, it'll be frustrating.If you're fairly self-contained and less dependent on your surroundings, you'll be happy almost anywhere just as long as there is no pressure to socialise when you don't want to.When we can't 'be ourselves', life feels wrong. It isn't the place's fault and it isn't your fault, just that you if you try to put a square peg in a round hole it will never fit comfortably. The shape of the hole isn't going to change but you could try to change the shape of the peg. Some pegs can remould themselves quite easily but most can't, and having their corners chipped off isn't a pleasant process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Your post has amused me no end EuroTrash, thankyou! I am quite unwell today and the idea of the unpleasant chipping off corners has just made me smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yes it has been entirely frustrating for me but I am very adaptable and resilient, speak good french now, am by necessity far more outgoing and social than I have ever been, but nonetheless with very little success.I have for the sake of my own sanity had to adapt, accept and re-invent myself and am now a completely different shape [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="Chiefluvvie"]Couldn't agree more Betty and bonemachine.I threw away my rose tinted specs years ago - not easy because you so want things to be how you believe them to be. It's hard when they're not, and even harder to hold up a mirror and honestly reflect back what you see....some folks just can't deal with it and go into denial..... [/quote]I've been hovering for a while reading this thread and I do wonder if I should just keep my hands away from the keyboard - but my goodness it's just too hard... so here's my rose-coloured opinion. I never understood the 'rose tinted' remarks or the 'fluffy' remarks. I guess I'd be considered both and if I was honest I'd say I find it just a tiny bit offensive (and I know I'll be in trouble for using that word). We've only been here 7 years... and yes we don't live in real France because about 300,000 Brits live in the Dordogne and everyone speaks english don't they?I recognise that France has her own problems... indeed I recognise that wherever there are people, the problems that people make are usually close behind. But... I'm happy here and sometimes when I've tried to offer a positive slant, I or others like me, get called the 'pink and fluffy' brigade. Sometimes it feels as though it's considered wrong to be happy - wrong to have got on with life and settled down - wrong to have made friends with the people that live around us and found them to be perfectly normal - wrong to have found a school where you're the only foreigners but still found folks helpful/welcoming - wrong to have found your hospital care excellent - wrong to have found working here pretty painless - or just wrong to have been fortunate enough to have found the move across the sea a good one.I understand that for some people France isn't right and that it will never be home and as someone has already said it's not down to anyones fault... it's just because. But sometimes I've cringed at the comments made within these threads and from comments made in the real world too... The french this... and the French that... and I wonder to myself if we subsituted the word french for Black or Muslim or Jew and made the same statements how would our comments be read or taken then?The original OP asked what happened to the forum and I think probably the internet offers so much information from so many different sources that this kind of forum has passed it's peak? For me it was also a case of feeling that my comments were seen as somehow inferior or less valid and I grew tired of trying to justify my position... and I also think life itself took over and I have less time. The problem with writing down words is that the reader can choose how to read them and how to perceive them - there's no body language or tone of voice to express the true sentiment behind the comment - so to help you read my comments I'll just say that I find this thread a little sad and so my comments are quietly spoken... and pink [:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's a bit of a pendulum thing, I guess...speaking as someone whose first foray into full-time life in France was in the mid-70's.Maybe it's worth considering the scenario as it was 10 or more years ago when I first dipped a toe into the waters of this and other forums. Back then, comments extolling the virtues of France (and yes, "the French") were, more often than not, accompanied by snide remarks about "broken Britain" and the "YUK"...where everyone (or so it seemed) was "frightened to go out" and it seemed that every street corner (except, oddly, mine) was populated by drunks, immigrants, pickpockets and other ne'er-do-wells. Everyone was leaving the UK (it seemed) to get away from pollution, crime, immigration and the general rapid decline of society.Now THAT made ME sad. Sad for any number of reasons. Like the fact that few (if any) acknowledged that (back then) it was the UK which had put them in the enviable position of having the means to sell up at a tidy profit, purchase a bigger house with loads of land (often mortgage-free) and retire at the age of fortysomething. (I'm painting a composite picture here, BTW). Like the fact that I (as one of the most cynical people I know) couldn't see any of this in the UK I knew...and heavens, I'm not that much of a patriot.Well, here we all are, a decade later. Britain is no more or less broken than it was then, and certainly no more or less broken than France. People - even the regular contributors to this forum - are still living in the country of their choice. Some happily, some less so...but it's hard to tell whether their happiness is shaped in any way by the place they're living, because as other threads have mentioned, happiness is such a hard thing to define. I suspect, however, that for some it seemed a lot more attainable and sustainable when the pound bought you heaps more Euros..although that particular tide is turning a bit recently.The much-mentioned rose-tinted specs were worn by some as a shield against some of life's harsher realities, and by others because that's just how they see life. Again,, as mentioned elsewhere, some have the ability and capacity to lead a happy and untroubled life, but that's absolutely nothing to do with WHERE you live and everything to do with HOW you live.Nowadays, there's been a general shift away from the "France good, UK bad" debate which was the mainstay of most heated discussions on internet forums. But then, most people still contributing have been round the block often enough by now to know that daily life, wherever it is taking place, is pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Goodness, IF I had been unhappy I would have left France, but where I lived was simply normal, a mix of good, bad and indifferent for just about every aspect of life. And here I can see a big difference between 'us' Rose is it feels like you are talking about 'you and yours' and that really is fair enough. The thing is that I don't do that when I speak of France. I am a great listener, because if I made sure I spoke to anyone, I also listen........... and take it all in, all of it. So even if I have had excellent eg hospital care, I take note of the lady I know who's teenage daughter had the wrong leg cut off. And if we had good builders and no problems, then my french neighbours who were locataires, went on to have a home built, ended up with cowboys, a lousy dangerous build and loosing boat loads of money. I have endless stories, of the good, the bad and the indifferent.We were there far too long for 'us' not to have encountered some problems with things, the law of averages says that at some point one will hit a pepin or two or more. It is just life and for me, it doesn't need to be 'pink'. Incidentally, I am very softly spoken IRL. [Www]Chancer, you seem to live in a rum old bit of France. Most of the people sound very strange and hostile, I admire your tenacity. And if I don't need things to be 'pink' then I can assure you that there are parts of France where people are far more agreeable and sociable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]...snide remarks about "broken Britain" and the "YUK"...where everyone (or so it seemed) was "frightened to go out" and it seemed that every street corner (except, oddly, mine) was populated by drunks, immigrants, pickpockets and other ne'er-do-wells. Everyone was leaving the UK (it seemed) to get away from pollution, crime, immigration and the general rapid decline of society.Now THAT made ME sad....[/quote]I totally agree with you - I've never understood the contstant comparison between the two countries. I love my corner of Devon just as much as my corner of the Dordogne... I once explained to my neighbour that it's like having 2 children that you love equally for different reasons... and even once that Devon was God's country but that he had a second home in the Dordogne.[quote user="You can call me Betty"]The much-mentioned rose-tinted specs were worn by some as a shield against some of life's harsher realities, and by others because that's just how they see life. Again,, as mentioned elsewhere, some have the ability and capacity to lead a happy and untroubled life, but that's absolutely nothing to do with WHERE you live and everything to do with HOW you live.[/quote]I'm kind of with you on this one (I think) in that generally it's not about WHERE but HOW. [quote user="idun"]... it feels like you are talking about 'you and yours' and that really is fair enough. The thing is that I don't do that when I speak of France. I am a great listener, because if I made sure I spoke to anyone, I also listen........... and take it all in, all of it. So even if I have had excellent eg hospital care, I take note of the lady I know who's teenage daughter had the wrong leg cut off. And if we had good builders and no problems, then my french neighbours who were locataires, went on to have a home built, ended up with cowboys, a lousy dangerous build and loosing boat loads of money. I have endless stories, of the good, the bad and the indifferent[/quote]Sort of Idun... If someone asks for experiences on how I have found 'school', 'sport', 'doctors', 'life' then I do tend to answer directly on how I have found them but I do take into consideration how it is for those around me too. I'm really not being blind to lifes problems, I just see them as that - life's problems ... problems that are encountered regardelss of where you live.Here's an example - my son was attacked once in the school playground. He can home with a horrible black eye and a lump on the side of his face. It wasn't because he was British but a case of mistaken identity. The lad that hit him was defending his sisters honour and thought my son was someone else. As a mum I was horrified/furious/upset and all the other things that you would feel in that situation. Half a dozen neighbours knocked on the door that evening asking how we were and saying sorry (it was odd how many people said sorry... it wasn't their fault). The headmaster called us in and explained that we had to report this as a crime - we had to get a doctors letter and a dentist letter and visit the gendarmerie and make a statement. People around us were genuinely shocked and upset that this violence had taken place in our local college. So... if someone asks how I have found schools in France I say great. I dont mention this incident because it was something that happened and it's not indicative of schools in France, nor of schools England... it doesn't show that there is violence in French schools... it's just a horrible thing that happened. Does this incident represent French kids? Does this incident represent French School? No... I think it just represents life and holding it up as an example of schooling in France would be unfair. [quote user="idun"]...the law of averages says that at some point one will hit a pepin or two or more. It is just life ...[/quote]I'm with you there - maybe I'm wrong but I just assume that everyone knows that too... dont they?[quote user="idun"]Incidentally, I am very softly spoken IRL. [Www][/quote]I never doubted it for a second! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 In hindsight I should have added to my posting about having to adapt, that I am the happiest now that I have ever been in my life by a long measure, not because of money but despite it, not because of my environment but despite it.Would I be any happier if I had more money? I doubt it, would I be any happier were I to live in a more social area, surrounded by happy positive people? Again I doubt it although I would not have to filter out the negativity.Some of the happiest people that I have ever met have been the poorest and lived in conditions that would make many people dreadfully unhappy, I think a bad environment can affect you if you allow it to, on the converse some unhappy people could live in a gilded cage and still be unhappy and do a good job of making those around them so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think that there is a difference between reporting things as you see them around you and being unhappy.It i no secret that I see a seedier, more decrepi, more depressed and more violent France around me than people who live in La France Profunde, but to me that is all part of life's rich tapestry.I post about it as a counterweight to other pictures.The 'truth' must be the sum of our experiences not one or other of them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 [quote user="NormanH"]I think that there is a difference between reporting things as you see them around you and being unhappy.[/quote]Yes. Absolutely. I have seen plenty of the seamier side of life here, there & elsewhere and I agree that there is a huge difference between being aware of the more unpleasant aspects of life and being unhappy.Personally, I think that I have considerably improved my morale and quality of life by moving to France. As an adult, I never really liked the UK very much, except for that bit of London delineated by the North Circular and the Thames. Actually, the South Bank was OK, but there be dragons in Battersea & beyond. I like it here. I like my life with its various tribulations; I like the intellectual stimulation of doing everything in French; my children thrive in this place. True, I could have made a great deal more money staying in oil trading, but having witnessed the debris of alcoholism, ulcers, divorce and general collapse of my former colleagues, I think I may have made the better choice. Provided you have enough to indulge your pastimes, money isn't everything. Though the first part of that sentence is the important bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 [quote user="NormanH"]The 'truth' must be the sum of our experiences not one or other of them..[/quote]I like that Norman ... how is it I took paragraphs and you can say it in a few words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwInKle Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Still as charming as I remember you Norm...hope you are are well xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Well cared for by the health system here anyway [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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