bonemachine Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]I remember those days....the days of "fluff" and "rose-tinted specs", where anyone who didn't portray France as The Promised Land was roundly chastised, and any attempt at offering a reality check was met with undisguised hostility! [/quote]LOL - just happened to come across this thread today on one of my very rare visits and that rang a bell!!That's around the time I joined this forum, and it was that attitude that drove me away. I clearly remember being torn apart by everyone in one particular thread just for mentioning how many cars got torched on the evening of Saint-Sylvestre every year - I was naive enough to assume that everyone would know about it. I was accused of trying to spread lies about France, disrupting the forum, and some said I didn't even live in France and that I was just trolling, when in fact I'm married into a French family and had been here for about twenty years at that time.Sorry, don't know what my user-name was, as I lost my forum details years ago after I stopped posting.As Betty says, there's a lot less fluffiness around these days, and even if forum participation seems to have dropped off, it's probably better for it?PS hello, everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Couldn't agree more Betty and bonemachine.I threw away my rose tinted specs years ago - not easy because you so want things to be how you believe them to be. It's hard when they're not, and even harder to hold up a mirror and honestly reflect back what you see....some folks just can't deal with it and go into denial.....In fact I've been banned 3 times (surprise!) from that naff entrée forum for daring to state anything that could be remotely construed as being anti-French. How I've avoided being locked up in La Bastille, or being guillotined in the town square - goodness only knows. Anyway - I no longer grace them with my presence - all became a bit weird, like some kind of sect.Do you remember those brilliant end-of-pier games where you had to try and bash as many rabbit / beaver / raccoon heads as possible as they sprung up out of their burrows - well that other forum forum is a bit like that!Much prefer this one......Chiefluvvie :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonemachine Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="Chiefluvvie"]I threw away my rose tinted specs years ago[/quote]I never had any But this place was a hot-bed of daft fluffyness ten or twelve years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It certainly was rosier than now, but then the Petrol site banned me and this one didn't....So Chancer and I have been doing a sort of "three yorkshiremen" act to see who lives in the bigger dump[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I have a distinct impression that I know you from somewhere, Mr. Machine....[;-)] (I'm not trying to pick you up, BTW. Despite Idun and I vying for the title of "top forum totty" [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="Chiefluvvie"] I threw away my rose tinted specs years ago - not easy because you so want things to be how you believe them to be. It's hard when they're not, and even harder to hold up a mirror and honestly reflect back what you see....some folks just can't deal with it and go into denial..... Chiefluvvie :-)[/quote] Even harder to be seen to admit it and take charge of your situation and future, looks like you have, I have recently made a decision but it will probably take several years to action it.I really feel for those that for whatever reason are unable to control their destiny, I think that is where the bitterness starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="Chancer"]I really feel for those that for whatever reason are unable to control their destiny, I think that is where the bitterness starts.[/quote]I'm not sure that it IS bitterness, Chancer. I think for a lot of people there's still a smugness born of a "head in the sand" approach to life in a foreign land. After years of sticking their fingers in their ears and going "Lalalalala, I can't hear you" they have managed to convince themselves that the world ends at the end of their road, and therefore nothing happening further afield can be accurate. It's a bit like when people still thought the world was flat....The result is that, as they can't actually (for many) read or listen to French news, they still read or listen to UK news and are aware of all the latest shootings/muggings/scandals, yet can still steadfastly maintain it doesn't happen in France (where "France" is actually the area within walking distance of their isolated idyll). They still fully believe they ARE in control of their destiny. It's probably only when they try to sell up, or investigate the cost of moving back, that they realise they aren't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonemachine Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]I have a distinct impression that I know you from somewhere, Mr. Machine....[;-)] [/quote]as long as I don't owe you any money.....EDITI'd forgotten how weird the software is on here - how the hell do we insert smilies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I must admit to some sympathy for those who thought it was all wonderful and then, for whatever reason, couldn't manage to hack it (or whatever the current expression is) in France.Perhaps it was Sprogster who said that many couldn't manage to carry on living here because of Death, Divorce or Debt. If it's not Sprogster, then I must apologise but it's the sort of thing he'd say in his no-nonsense way and I'd nod my head in agreement and you could feel the discomfort descend on the Forum.I don't think it's "fluffiness" as such. There is a marketing expression (which I have now forgotten the name of) to describe the phenomenon whereby someone has invested (bought) something and then they need to justify their decision both to themselves and to others. So, what could you buy that's bigger and indeed more expensive than your house or a whole new way of life?They start, as someone has already said, by some sort of mechanism such as denial that they'd made a huge mistake. The new life isn't all it's cracked up to be, they start missing their old life, those dreaded Ds (Death etc) happen and the panic and disillusionment set in.It's always easiest to be wise after the event. For those who truly made the wrong choice for themselves, I do commiserate to a degree; not enitrely however because it's always necessary to take responsibility of one's own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="Chiefluvvie"]I've been banned 3 times (surprise!) from that naff entrée forum [/quote]I get the distinct feeling that there are some who would consider that to be a badge of honour ...And as for the burning of cars on New Year's Eve, well, that just DOESN'T HAPPEN now, d'ya hear? Nope. Not at all. It was abolished a couple of years ago. And if by some mischance such a thing should happen, then surely the authorities would report it, wouldn't they? And surely someone would be recording these crimes? Ah, I forgot about the edict ...Silly me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I cant say that I made the wrong choice for myself, I wanted a complete change and to break away from everything that my life had become and was becoming and that I certainly got.Many people that knew me think that I made the wrong decision when they see or hear of my life now and compare it to what it was then, the same sort of life (ratrace) that they are still living, but that is because they measure everything in financial terms and I had already learned to stop doing so, which meant that to say goodbye to my (relative) affluence didnt in my terms cost me a penny.Very soon I will be celebrating 10 years of jumping off the merry go round, 10 years of not working for others be they customers or employers, 10 pretty much entirely stress free years, what price can you put on that?So whilst not a wrong choice I do however now realise that the France I thought I was coming to and the life I would have there were complete self made illusions.I think that the only thing that I will do different next time, and it will be in the medium future, will be to sell up everything and end all my interests in both countries, burn my bridges as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I have just had a look on the "other" Forum (I can because I am in the clinique on their Wifi, so my banned IP doesn't show up [6])There is as usual a thread going round in ignorance (about French Pensions in this case)nomoss is doing a good job trying to steer them but there is the usual load of misinformation.If they came here and either posted or searched they could get a proper answer straight away.All that waffle is why it seems to be more active... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="Pickles"]And as for the burning of cars on New Year's Eve, well, that just DOESN'T HAPPEN now, d'ya hear? Nope. Not at all. It was abolished a couple of years ago. [/quote]Odd, isn't it, that the French media is colluding with the likes of French Entrée and AngloInfo in pretending the car torching and unrest doesn't really happen. Or at least, is not "worth" reporting. Ha![quote user="sweet 17"]I must admit to some sympathy for those who thought it was all wonderful and then, for whatever reason, couldn't manage to hack it (or whatever the current expression is) in France. [/quote]As I run a chambre d'hôte, over the years I've had a fair few guests who've stayed while house-hunting. When they're waxing lyrical about the charms of France, I have to bite my tongue so that I don't contradict them too often - or even at all if all they're thinking of doing is buying a holiday home. But sometimes when people are talking of selling up completely in the UK and moving over - especially if they are early retired - I have to be honest and (briefly!) tell them the possible pitfalls. Even so, of the half-dozen or so I know of who've subsequently moved over permanently post-retirement, two of the partnerships / marriages have broken up within a couple of years of moving here... and in each case, I'm not really surprised. It's my perception that men settle in nicely but women want more of a sense of achievement from life and rural France doesn't easily deliver that for women. The people who seem to do best are a bit less sociable and more insular and very self-contained. But then, factor death or divorce - or even very serious illness - into the equation and the life they've made isn't right any more. Are they wrong for making the move? No, I don't think so - because how can you know till you've done it? Try to make a move from a position of knowledge, sure - and keep a foot in the UK property market - but being too fearful of what the future may hold isn't a fulfilling way of living a life. Imo. [quote user="Chancer"]So whilst not a wrong choice I do however now realise that the France I thought I was coming to and the life I would have there were complete self made illusions.[/quote]But! [:)] In another part of France, perhaps there is a place that is closer to what you thought you were coming to. We know from this forum and others that depending on location and circumstances (age, marital status, kids, etc) the French experience can be quite different. Although Idun and I are similar ages, her experience of France is completely different to mine - which always fascinated me when she lived here. The France she - and Norman, for that matter - describe isn't "my" France. But, of course, my life experiences in south-western England might not have been replicated in Wales, Lincolnshire or Perthshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonemachine Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="Chancer"]I think that the only thing that I will do different next time, and it will be in the medium future, will be to sell up everything and end all my interests in both countries, burn my bridges as it were.[/quote]Where will you go, Chancer, and how will you decide? I'm about to have a massive upheaval in my life, and I don't know whether to stay somewhere in France, or do something completely mad and move to the isles off the coast of Scotland where some of my ancestors came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="NormanH"]I have just had a look on the "other" Forum (I can because I am in the clinique on their Wifi, so my banned IP doesn't show up [6])[/quote]I read "clique". I was briefly surprised by you admitting to being in (or even finding!) a clique, Norman. [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Tomorrow I will copy an interesting article I was sent 10 years ago regarding retirement and happiness.One of the studies surveyed 3 time points. Firstly when people were about to retire to Florida. Secondly when they had retired and moved to Florida for less than a year, and thirdly when they had been resident for several years. The results showed that life is life wherever you live. We are born with a base level of happiness that can be improved by friendship and love, but that happiness from material things is transitory. That includes the dream of retiring in sunnier parts. So, no surprise to know that for the people looking for happiness in Florida, it only lasted about a year after moving, then happiness levels returned to that which existed prior to their retirement.I think this goes to explain why so many people become disillusioned once the permanent move takes place. I will find the whole article tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 [quote user="bonemachine"][quote user="Chancer"]I think that the only thing that I will do different next time, and it will be in the medium future, will be to sell up everything and end all my interests in both countries, burn my bridges as it were.[/quote]Where will you go, Chancer, and how will you decide? I'm about to have a massive upheaval in my life, and I don't know whether to stay somewhere in France, or do something completely mad and move to the isles off the coast of Scotland where some of my ancestors came from.[/quote]Well I know where I would like to go and that probably wont change, what may is that something may come up in the meantime so I am keeping an open mind.I know I dont want to stay where I am in France, I used to say my next move will be elsewhere in France, I doubt that now but as said keep an open mind, I never know what might be around the corner.I used to say that I would never go back to England, I still feel that way and have decided that when I make the next move I will cut all ties, but it is a never say never thing, at least then if ever I did go back it would be to something and somewhere completely different.My hankering too is for an island, a very small one in a warmer climate, it will have changed no doubt since I was there but there are plenty of others in the archipeligo, I would be truly bi-lingual there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 bonemachine said: But this place was a hot-bed of daft fluffyness ten or twelve years ago.Hmmmmm......... I was on this board then, and I was never ever, pink and fluffy. I cannot say that some people did not have a go at me for being what they perceived as 'negative' but I knew I was realistic. I just did not recognise the France that many posters would post about....... 'then'!I never had rose tinted specs, we simply moved to France for an adventure with no knowledge of the place at all, only a good friend offered to send me soap, such was how it was perceived by some .......... 'then'! Also it was very expensive at first and then good old Tonton Mitterand actually got prices under control for years and years..... salaries too incidentally, always under inflation for endless years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Don't worry Doudoun, we all know you are pink and fluffy at heart, and that you hide it under a bushel!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ROFLPMP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote user="Catalpa"]The people who seem to do best are a bit less sociable and more insular and very self-contained.[/quote]Catalpa - your post in its entirety was insightful, but I particularly noted the above, and I think you are quite right: couples / families / individuals who can be socially self-sufficient when necessary do far better from what I can see.The thing is, making friends takes time. Making acquaintances is easy. When we first moved here there was no end to the parents of other children in the school inviting us over for aperos to satisfy their curiosity. However, developing a circle of actual friends with whom we had more in common than just children the same age and the human race took a long time. I'd say about six years. Some couples would have murdered each other in that time.It's not just the linguistic differences; friendships root in shared experiences and, given that we had neither of us grown up here nor been schooled here, these took a while to arise.[quote user="Catalpa"] The France she - and Norman, for that matter - describe isn't "my" France. But, of course, my life experiences in south-western England might not have been replicated in Wales, Lincolnshire or Perthshire.[/quote]Likewise. Everyone's experience will naturally be different. I expected the transition, setting up a business, dealing with the bureaucracy, etc to be far, far, harder than it turned out to be, a streak of natural pessimism on my part. When it all turned out relatively straightforward, from my point of view, I couldn't see what people had to complain about. Conversely, if I'd been expecting it all to be a piece of cake, my view would have been entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 My view of life in France is that it the same old sh1t but in French so for a while you think it is different.You bring yourself with you, so if that is what you are escaping it won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 You are being positively obscure to day, Norman.I do hope that they have sorted you inner tube and not found any leaks, so to speak.Good for a few more miles, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I also think Catalpa is right about the type of people who adjust best to life in France.Buying a country place here as an alternative to Scotland, initially for holidays, we fit into that category, and although we did tend to have rose colored specs at first (about the countryside and climate) we're more realistic now.Also we had some ability to speak and understand french. Lack of french is a huge stumbling block.We know a few young families who have managed to make a go of it, and appreciate the advantages for bringing up children.But that's in the Gers, a bit of a backwater, where you need to be satisfied with a non-materialistic lifestyle.As for the other forum, there are very few contributers there now with rose tinted spectacles, and when they do pop up they're soon brought down to earth.I don't think you can say one forum is better than another, each has its own style to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 This sort of thread is a regular feature on here and I have so far made no comment.All that I'd say is:The number of posts since this time yesterday was about one every half hour. Pretty healthy I'd say. Of course it'll be less at weekends, in the summer and over times like Chrstmas.As for the 'settling down' over here, I honestly don't think that we saw it as anything much different than moving to (say) the West Country after retirement. I don't mean to suggest that 'we knew it all' (on the contrary!), but it was just a different place to live. As for making friends here, we've neither sought nor avoided friendships. Thus probably four or five couples in nearly 10 yrs - much the same as we would have done in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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