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Driving and roads


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If French Autoroute's are great to drive on, then I have to say they cost an arm and leg. All the other roads we have driven on are no better than the roads I use in England. The oddest thing is every one driving at the speed limit, the madness/ fun has gone out of driving in France. No idea why or how the last death on the roads figure was so high, feels like it should be the lowest in Europe now!

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I agree totally about the motorway tolls. There was a time when it did not matter too much, I had kilometres to cover and the cost was either charged to the company or I could recoup a portion of the cost through offsetting my tax at a rate of 30c/km. I also took the benefit of a deal through the autoroute provider to get one trip in 6 free over a big section of their network. Both routes are now closed to me and I don't travel the long route to gain a one in six benefit any more.

As for the high death rate, I think the reasons are many and complex. Certainly alcohol and other stimulant/depressive drugs play a role - as they do in other countries.

The roads however can be less forgiving in France. I am used to driving on narrow, exposed and difficult roads. In the UK I would regularly drive through the N Yorks Moors and Yorkshire Dales. Roads are twisty and twiney but an error is likely to lead to an expensive repair bill and probably the repair of a dry stone wall.

Here in the Ardeche the roads are also twisty and twiney. An error may result in damage to a low stone wall, more likely damage to a wood barrier, but even more likely just driving off the road and going however far down gravity takes you.

Last Monday driving down to the Rhone valley we were flagged down to drive at snail pace to pass where another driver had left the road. SP first response were in attendance but this incident had clearly just happened since further SP/SAMU and Police vehicles were coming up the hill as we descended. The vehicle had left the road on a sharpish corner. No barriers. It had come to rest some 20ft down the slope against a tree. If that had not stopped it goodness knows what would since the full drop at around 1:1 slope is around 400m! And no protection on the curve except for a couple of sharp bend chevrons.

So when you say the roads are no better than those in the UK, I have to agree, but in terms of safety I think French roads can be significantly worse - at least in the Ardeche. In fairness I have to say I have also driven quite a lot on the other side of the Rhone and for equivalent potential dangers, the Alpine roads in Drome, Isere and Savoie do seem to be better protected.

PaD also creates problems and there have been occasions where I have braked coming up to a junction where the side road had priority and there has been a vehicle exiting, and the vehicle behind had failed to realise a PaD junction was coming up and nearly misjudged the situation (French cars/vans not UK).

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I am driving in the Alpes, and there are barriers in lots of places, and,on quite a few roads there have been separator thingys to stop people cutting onto the other side of the road. Have encountered these on quite a few roads so far.

Just seems strange everyone is being so lawful.

This trip has been very expensive so far. Even the ferry was dear and the port of Dover HORRIBLE, used quite a few ferryports over the years, including Dover and it was NEVER like it is now.
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I find that many French motorists drive much too fast along narrow roads completely oblivious to the fact that someone might be coming the other way.

There is also the French hobby of tailgating. Not a thought about what would happen if you had to brake suddenly.

Then you have drivers following large wagons so closely that they cannot see the road ahead. Utterly stupid.

I won't get going on the stupid woman who slammed her door into the side of my Bentley the other day then just drove off.
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Unlike the OP's I find the autoroute tolls acceptable.  Using the autoroute allows me to drive alone for much longer distances than I would otherwise be able to do, and with fewer stops en route.  Cheaper than an overnight hotel, so what's to complain about.  I have just driven there and back to the UK, alone, from down south, cost (except for the last day which is still to arrive) 60€.

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How about the concrete stretch of the M20 on the way too and from Folkestone / Dover - absolutely horrendous for noise.

A friend once thought 'I'll save on the tolls and take the non toll route south'. The result, a lot longer to drive plus because of the stop start in the towns etc the fuel cost increase equalled what the tolls would have been.

And yes, the tailgating - bad enough in the UK but the French have turned it in to an art form.

I had already decided to put video cameras in the car front and back prior to this trip but my mind is definitely made up now.
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[quote user="vette"]I find that many French motorists drive much too fast along narrow roads completely oblivious to the fact that someone might be coming the other way.

There is also the French hobby of tailgating. Not a thought about what would happen if you had to brake suddenly.

Then you have drivers following large wagons so closely that they cannot see the road ahead. Utterly stupid.

I won't get going on the stupid woman who slammed her door into the side of my Bentley the other day then just drove off.[/quote]

I'm with vette on this one:  IMHO they drive MUCH too fast!  Much too fast for the road and/or driving conditions.

And it absolutely kills them if they don't overtake.  Many have been the times when I have had to brake to enable the overtaking person on the other side of the road to complete their manoeuvre without smashing into me.  There is the tailgater to consider as well.  Do you brake to avoid the car on the opposite of the road and risk being hit from behind or vice versa?  Perhaps someone can tell me whether it's better to be hit from in front or behind?[:-))]

Driving would be such a joy if they could keep the French drivers off the road![I]

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"If French Autoroute's are great to drive on, then I have to say they cost an arm and leg."

Perhaps because there is no annual road fund licence? Every country has to have some mechanism of collecting money from the motorist to fund the road infrastructure.

At least you can choose whether you use the autoroutes and pay the tolls. You can't choose whether or not you pay the RFL in the UK. And if you use tolls, everybody who uses the roads contributes to their upkeep, locals and tourists alike.
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My observations are similar to many of those highlighted previously.

I especially dislike:

The ridiculous amount of tailgating. I sometimes wonder if thye are trying to save fuel and have hooked a towrope onto me.

The obsession to overtake even when to do so would be (and is) lunacy. Not quite as bad as in India though.

Driving round blind bends pretty much on the wrong side of the road.

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I agree with a lot of what has been said, such as the tail-gating and the 'having to' overtake.

But those who irritate me as we travel regularly up and down France who really annoy me are usually from Belgium, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Germany who race along in the outside lane at speeds well over the speed limit, flashing at cars in that lane who are overtaking. They obviously think they are very important people.

I haven't seen accidents because of tailgating - maybe because those who drive on motorways have more money and therefore have more modern cars with excellent brakes.

Off motorways what I find has improved a great deal is stopping for people to cross at marked crossings, particularly in the Gard. I still give some drivers a telling off or bang on their cars as they pass when I and others are midway across the road.
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[quote user="EuroTrash"]"If French Autoroute's are great to drive on, then I have to say they cost an arm and leg."

Perhaps because there is no annual road fund licence? Every country has to have some mechanism of collecting money from the motorist to fund the road infrastructure.

At least you can choose whether you use the autoroutes and pay the tolls. You can't choose whether or not you pay the RFL in the UK. And if you use tolls, everybody who uses the roads contributes to their upkeep, locals and tourists alike.[/quote]

Ah, but it is not just the cost of the RFL in the UK. Compare fuel costs.......OK so perhaps at the moment just diesel as petrol seems very expensive in France.......and the cost of driving in the UK is higher than France.
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Is it? I pay more in insurance for my 13-year-old little car in tinpot rural France than I do to insure my 3-year-old car in Surrey.

And petrol costs vary sooo much in France. In fact, weren't they supposed to be doing something to standardise them recently? It's always been a surprise to friends from Brittany that the cost in our bit of Charente Maritime (or whatever it's called this week) is significantly cheaper.
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" Perhaps someone can tell me whether it's better to be hit from in front or behind?Woot! [:-))]"

From behind every time. Then it's their fault[8-|]

Anyone who tailgates me in 50 or 30 limits must get really peed off, because I just drop the speed limiter down to the limit and trog along as happy as a pig-in-poo [8-|] and I don't increase speed until I go past the de-restriction sign.

By tailgating they do actually save on fuel because you are parting the air for them.

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I think they look aggresive, especially if they are the xenon type!

Had a couple of volvos in the past and the sidelights used to be on all the time and I always felt a bit self-conscious.............aaarrrggghhhhhhh!  Could be attracting the wrong type of attention....[:)]

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[quote user="EuroTrash"]"If French Autoroute's are great to drive on, then I have to say they cost an arm and leg."

Perhaps because there is no annual road fund licence? Every country has to have some mechanism of collecting money from the motorist to fund the road infrastructure.

At least you can choose whether you use the autoroutes and pay the tolls. You can't choose whether or not you pay the RFL in the UK. And if you use tolls, everybody who uses the roads contributes to their upkeep, locals and tourists alike.[/quote]

What are you on about? I have no idea how I know all the stuff I do about France, especially as I have not been for lessons or been 'educated', but the vignettes were to top up old age pensions. AND some still pay....professional vehicles do.

Remember some pay 0 road tax in the UK,we only pay £30 a year. And that is road tax!

IF I had to pay as much for motorways in the UK as I have in France, I would expect them to be bloody brilliant.

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The value for money of using the motorways will be a very personal thing and dependent on your usage.

Judith's post that she finds driving the length of France and back for 60€ + as a good deal compared with taking N and D roads and having to stop en route at a hotel is well made.

However think about doing that every week, as I had to do most summers when the alternative air flights became uneconomic. To add insult to injury the road conditions were the worst you could find with the massed hoards of holidaymakers also travelling in the same direction - and everything funnelling into the bottleneck that is Lyon.

By the third or fourth weekend my 60€ round trip did not feel like brilliant value for money. Cheaper than hotels, yes. Cheaper than TGV, yes. Cheaper than flying, yes - but value for money - no. And of course two round trips worth of tolls was more than my German annual car tax.

So using the motorways on an occasional basis and I can see that they have great attraction and seem good value, but use them regularly and I think you get another perspective.
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I suppose it depends in which part of France you live as to whether you enjoy the driving experience; I wouldn't want to drive regularly in Paris but down here in 79 (and 16,17, and 86 too) I find it a real pleasure! Especially when compared to my working journeys in the UK, regularly using the M6 traffic jam from Manchester to the Midlands. I hate it when we go back to UK, and here I can't remember the last time I used "Sorry, bad traffic" as an excuse for late arrival.

Yes, people tailgate, take funny routes round roundabouts, always seem to cross the white line on bends... we've heard them all before. Autoroutes, well we use them on long distance journeys and I don't think the charges are too bad, but then I'm not commuting.

I'm very much reminded of traffic conditions in UK from 50 years ago! And it's brilliant for motorcyclists.

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[quote user="vette"]I forgot to mention in my last post.

One thing that myself and her ladyship always do is to have the dipped headlamps on during the day.

It does at least make one more noticeable.[/quote]I agree. I have always done this since living in Sweden where it is a legal requirement. Mind you now I drive a Volvo it does it automatically.

[quote user="mint"]I think they look aggresive, especially if they are the xenon type!

Had

a couple of volvos in the past and the sidelights used to be on all the

time and I always felt a bit

self-conscious.............aaarrrggghhhhhhh!  Could be attracting the

wrong type of attention....[/quote]

I don't find it aggressive provided the lights are properly adjusted. I also find it useful if other drivers can see that I am there and thus avoid me. I certainly find it useful now that motorcyclists in the UK are using dipped headlamps. It does make them easier to see and therefore safer for everyone

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Almost all of the cars have the led driving lights on them now and some look totally wally ridiculous IMO. Our 1 year old Citroën C4 has them and I think they are a very good idea.

As for autoroute tolls? We use the autoroutes at least twice a year and they aren't a problem [:-))] and in a few hours we will be using them all the way to Gerona and Ryanair to Malta [8-|][8-|]

There's a headline in the Telegraph asking is it true that the only difference between Ryanair and BA is the price?? BA are now going to charge for food on board [:-))]

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Meanwhile back on the roads ............

I think their upkeep must be a local thing. In France I do most of my driving in the Dordogne and the lot, both of which have much better roads even in quite remote parts than we have here in Leicestershire and Derbyshire.
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On the journeys that I take regularly and others that I have taken I find that using the autoroute halves my journey time, if I am driving to Lille I wont take the péage, its not a great saving as most of the way its a free autoroute, going to Calais I usually pay as it saves me 90 minutes or more and costs €10, when times were tough I never took the péage, we all have a choice and many autoroutes are free.

 

The péage fees double my fuel costs, I don't speculate on whether its good value as it is wrong to compare it to other countries with different systems of raising revenues, I do compare my one off cost of matriculating my car very favorably with what it would cost on RFL each year in the UK.

 

Here in France my fixed motoring costs, insurance, matriculation, CT etc are miniscule at circa €170 per year, a fraction of what they would be in the UK, diesel is around 30% cheaper if I am not mistaken, I dont moan at the cost of the autoroutes, I have a choice and I have never ever been stuck in a traffic jam on one although I am Lucky in that respect.

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