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Fillon versus LePen


NormanH
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This article is a good summary

"The battle will largely focus on economic policy. Fillon has promised a “radical shock” for France with free-market reform, major cuts to public sector jobs and reducing public spending. Le Pen claims to represent the “forgotten” French underclass and has an economic line that is essentially leftwing: she is anti-globalisation and favours protectionism and state intervention. Le Pen’s campaign director, David Rachline, has called Fillon’s programme “economically insane” for wanting to slash 500,000 public sector jobs.

Le Pen’s advisers believe Fillon will struggle to appeal to the lower middle class and working class voters who are afraid of losing their jobs. The Front National has slammed Fillon as a symbol of lawless, ultra-free market, globalised capitalism. Fillon, in return, says Le Pen’s economic project is simply “a cut and paste of the extreme left”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/27/francois-fillons-victory-creates-strategy-problem-for-marine-le-pen
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What is that elusive something about Fillon that makes me not entirely trust him?

At last, yesterday, it came to me in a flash.  The man is sanctimonious.  I think I'd prefer someone less perfect, with flaws to which they admit.  These goody-two-shoe types are impossible to like.

That and the fact that his political hero is Thatcher[:'(]

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 I think that you are right and I do not believe that Macron will do very well either. I always feel that it was a pity about Jospin not becoming President, in my mind I always hope that he would have been good.

Now it is Fillon, I rather reckon that it reduces Marine's chances..... but as so often in this life, I could well be wrong[blink]

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Yes, Fillon does seem to be a bit sanctimonious but perhaps he is seem as a cleaner option that the sleaze ridden competition he was faced with.

The more that Norman describes the programme of the FN, the more it sounds like National Socialism which is worrying.

Noticeably, and I don't know whether it is any guide given the type of vote it was, areas such as the Pas de Calais which I would have expected to be FN, voted strongly for Fillon this time. Well, given the failure of the Left in this area, it is not surprising.
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Not only that, they interviewed a Muslim man who was very firmly in the Fillon camp.  When they asked him why Fillon who was after all Sarkozy's PM for 5 years and they didn't achieve the changes they promised, the man said Sarkozy was too anti-muslim but that Fillon was less so!

Really?  I don't know, I am not muslim so I can't say I am knowledgeable on how it all feels when you are at the receiving end.

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[quote user="woolybanana"] Noticeably, and I don't know whether it is any guide given the type of vote it was, areas such as the Pas de Calais which I would have expected to be FN, voted strongly for Fillon this time. Well, given the failure of the Left in this area, it is not surprising.[/quote]

 

I am once again going to declare my ignorance of the French electoral process and ask basic questions which in the past Norman has always been very patient in answering. This vote, wasn't it between Fillon and Juppé so where does the FN come into it in the Pas de Calais?

 

If it were to choose a party and candidate then I need to look at the results for my area.

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The FN doesn't come into it this time, but I was looking ahead to what I expect to be a FN against Fillon second round.

Fillon is offering a dose of austerity, which might be what some would say is needed, but strangely enough the FN offer almost left-wing economic policies which is why they appeal to the voters who used to vote communist.

My fear is that this 'populist' electorate, confronted with two candidates of the right, might go for the FN tempted by their (undeliverable) promises

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[quote]  ............Fillon’s programme “economically insane” for wanting to slash 500,000 public sector jobs.[/quote]

And this is "Deliverable"??

Whereas:

[quote]...............the FN tempted by their (undeliverable) promises

[/quote]

Surely, well worthwhile remembering how both Domenique de Villepin and indeed, Juppé himself both failed dismally in trying to break the embedded Social Contract?

Even Lionel Jospin, the hard Socialist who introduced the 35 Hour week (With Martine Aubry) and created the social benefit structure which led to the present fiscal problems in France, tried and failed to raise this to 37 hours per week...

ALL politicians "Promises" delivered on the stump prove tenuous in the arduous face of harsh reality.

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Me being an old lass and moving to France a long time ago, I have seen first hand what a determined President can do. And they can change things.

When we moved, salaries were going up just about every month, such was the contract at work. Even the SMIC was going up a few times year. And that France, the one I moved to was VERY expensive in comparison to the UK, including house prices. And then Mitterand said enough, and for literally years, pay hardly went up at all, and all prices remained very stable, we all knew where we were with everything.

I remember my brother bitterly complaining about his 'good' company only offering 7% increase or there abouts, for literally years  and years, french pay was going up at say 0.25% so seven was an unbelievable amount. So yes, a determined President can do things. And believe me, as someone who only had french tv for 15 years, as well as things affecting my  life, I saw all the news and reporting programs about all the greves etc and the people standing up and sometimes stopping things, but other things, they do happen.

The thing about Fillon is that functionnaires will be so wanting their life time jobs, that chacun pour soi might kick in and they will accept changes.

And I remember the reduction in hours too, pity that the functionnaires NEVER made sure that it was fairly applied to all secteurs. My son was a chef, and I realise that miki told me that some restaurants worked by the book, my son never ever worked for one that did. Exploited beyond belief. All the cheap meals mentioned on here, is that because people are overworked and underpaid?????? That was what would have been happening if my son had cooked for you, and he may have. 

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"I have seen first hand what a determined president can do."

Yes, id, I have heard that the French president is just about the most powerful person in the western world, more powerful than the American president, more powerful than the UK Prime Minister.

So you are right, a determined president can certainly change things, if he (will it be a she in France?) can drive through changes.

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[quote user="mint"]"I have seen first hand what a determined president can do."

Yes, id, I have heard that the French president is just about the most powerful person in the western world, more powerful than the American president, more powerful than the UK Prime Minister.

So you are right, a determined president can certainly change things, if he (will it be a she in France?) can drive through changes.

[/quote]

"Speaking after his win, Hollande said that the French had vote for "change."

François Hollande was absolutely useless, in fact, worse than useless. And, apart from his glaring incompetency, he made a total fool of himself and denigrated the presidency of France when he used to slip out of the two-up and three-down to go a-visiting, hiding behind his crash helmet, back-seating with the adorable Julie on a Vespa or similar. He was then and always will be, a figure of fun.

What is completely unforgiveable is his point-blank refusal to make any attempt whatsoever to stop the increasing Islamisation of France. Anyone who has been in one of these places will immediately recognise what I am referring to. If not, take a look here

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

: Result – France is at war. Although it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM of course.

Not only is he incompetent, he is a devout moral coward.

“Yes, id, I have heard that the French president is just about the most powerful person in the western world, more powerful than the American president, more powerful than the UK Prime Minister.”

Who on earth told you that ? Was it Ms Trierweiler ? Or was it Hollande ?

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Look, I don't say these things to be controversial and I don't make them up either.  If you are interested, I am sure you are capable of looking it all up yourself.

From Obama's experience alone, a whole film exists which shows how he was blocked and vetoed and frustrated in all his intentions for change, from Obamacare to the American economy.  Republican senators saw to that.

The British Prime Minister, look at recent history alone; look at May, ever trying to appease her own cabinet ministers (appointed by her), her rebel MPs and today the Supreme Court starts the appeal hearing to DECIDE her ability to trigger art 50.

The French president, however, gets to CHOOSE his (or maybe her) Prime Minister.  That sounds like a whole lot of power to me. 

But, of course, don't take my word for it, go find out, unless you think you know best, of course[I]

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As can and have US presidents, too, Wooly!

Perhaps the very best illustration being the Bail-Out Bill, to rescue US banks and the financial system.

Using their own version of Project Fear (if you remember):

"The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (Division A of Pub.L. 110–343, 122 Stat. 3765, enacted October 3, 2008), commonly referred to as a bailout of the U.S. financial system, is a law enacted in response to the subprime mortgage crisis authorizing the United States Secretary of the Treasury to spend up to $700 billion to purchase distressed assets, especially mortgage-backed securities,

and supply cash directly to banks. The funds for purchase of distressed

assets were mostly redirected to inject capital into banks and other

financial institutions while the Treasury continued to examine the

usefulness of targeted asset purchases.[1][2] Both foreign and domestic banks are included in the program. The Act was proposed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson during the global financial crisis of 2008 and signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008."

By loudly proclaiming America was nearly broke and only had days to survive ([Www] ), Congress and the Senate who originally both opposed the bill, quickly came around when parts were quickly re-written, but well larded with "Pork"!

Since the bill consisted of over 200 pages of complex financial terms and expressions and complex legalese, there was just no way the Congressmen and Senators could actually understand its ramifications; nor did they have time to seek external expert opinion and analysis.

The then US Sec. of Treasury, was of course one "Hank" Paulson; and guess who he worked for prior to being boosted in as Sec. Treas.?

Err. Goldman Sachs; AKA The Vampire Squid; the bank which had been flogging loads of fraudulent MBSs (Mortgage Backed Securities) and other connected derivative products and pushing these instruments as AAA security - which they clearly were not - and simultaneously, shorting the same positions. and ended up making a bundle.

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So Hollande creeping round from easy bed to easy bed, is sort of what Presidents do isn't it??

The trouble is that he looks so insignificant and mou, his gestures and voice just echoing this, so an unlikely romeo[+o(]

The only disgraceful thing for me in all this are his badly fitting clothes, surely there is a tailor in France that could make something fit!!!!! There is haut couture in France, they are supposed to be experts!!!!

Look at Sarko, married and IF he wasn't seeing Carla whilst married, then I'll eat my hat, then divorced and remarried in an astonishing speed.

I do wonder if Carla regrets this last relationship!

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[quote user="mint"]

........... I have heard that the French president is just about the most powerful person in the western world, more powerful than the American president, more powerful than the UK Prime Minister..............................

[/quote]

I think maybe you have been in France too long............

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[quote user="idun"]

I do wonder if Carla regrets this last relationship! [/quote]

Well, she does have rather a rich history, herself Idun.............

Jerri Hall divorced Mick Jagger because of Bruni: and....

"Other relationships

It has been claimed that Bruni has been involved with Louis Bertignac, Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, Léos Carax, Charles Berling, Arno Klarsfeld, Vincent Pérez,[67] and former French Prime Minister Laurent Fabius.[68][69][70]

The Enthovens

While living with Jean-Paul Enthoven, Bruni started an affair with his son, philosophy professor Raphaël Enthoven (the song "Raphaël" from Bruni's album Quelqu'un m'a dit is named after him), who was at the time married to novelist Justine Lévy, daughter of philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy.[71] Bruni later denied ever having an affair with Raphaël's father in an interview published in Vanity Fair, "I never slept with him, not even a minute."[2]

The affair and the end of her marriage inspired Justine's 2004 book Rien de Grave (published in English in 2005 as Nothing Serious).[72]

Bruni and Raphaël had a son, Aurélien, in 2001. Bruni told Vanity Fair that the couple broke up in May 2007 because Raphaël thought their relationship did not have a commitment.[2]"

Source: Wiki:

France having always enjoyed much respect for diplomatic excellence and style in affairs of state, Bruni once burst into a cabinet meeting at the Elysee and insisted on handing out copies of her new CD to all present. Clearly, she thought it was a cross between a reality TV show and a social event.

Hollande has been even worse.

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[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="mint"]

........... I have heard that the French president is just about the most powerful person in the western world, more powerful than the American president, more powerful than the UK Prime Minister..............................

[/quote]

I think maybe you have been in France too long............

[/quote]

Depends on what you mean by too long!  I don't feel I have been here long enough as I am only just beginning to understand something of French politics and I am a mere débutante at the language[:)]

Don't get me wrong, I am no admirer of the present incumbent of the presidency of France.  If you look into the American constitution and the French constitution and indeed the UK constitution, you will see what I mean.

Took me many hours of comparison and some detailed conversations with others much more learned than myself to see where the differences lie and how much more power lies in the role of the French president than that of the other two.

I am no Gluestick and I will therefore not be digging around posting links from different sources.  Go on, nomoss, do look it up and show me where I have misunderstood?

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Well, I always try to include a link when I quote people, because of this weird notion I have it adds a little credulity to anything I decide to post. I reckon it’s better than saying "That's what I heard, go check it out on DuckDuckGo for yourself", IMNSHO, but - Who am I to judge ? Each to his or her own I guess.

OTOH, when it comes to spending taxpayer money with reckless abandon, what I call "Showing contempt for those who put you into a seat of almost complete omnipotence" , Hollande is way down the list of esurient trough-gobblers***. #1 contender at present seems to be Mr B Hussein Obama, who has spent - and is still spending whatever he can - over $10,000,000 per year on family holidays. That’s about $85M in his two terms. Beat that Flamby.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-family-travel-vacations-cross-85-million-mark/article/2608882

*** As reported, more than once, in every single French newspaper, on TV, in hundreds and hundreds of blogs, Hollande pays his own personal tonsorial stylist the princely sum of €10 grand per calendar month. Whether or not he’s getting his money’s worth is open to discussion, moi - I don’t pay mine a centime more than €150 per visit, lol. No tax, as it’s sous le manteau.

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[quote user="Gluestick"][quote] the UK constitution,[/quote]

What "UK Constitution"?

Britain doesn't actually have one!

Which is one of its core problems.

Interesting, since I studied "British Constitution" at Grammar School, all those years ago; sigh...

[:(]

[/quote]

It does have a constitution, part written and part unwritten.  Look up Bagehot and the English Constitution.[url]https://www.amazon.com/English-Constitution-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0199539014[/url]

Also, please understand that I am not talking about any particular president, present or past, or how well or otherwise they did or are doing their jobs.

I am talking about their role within their own constitution and the power invested in that role and, no ernie, I am not going through dozens of websites to produce quotes because that feels very much like doing homework again.  I hated school and hated homework.  Besides I don't mind if you believe me or not; I just tell you the results of my research.  If you think I am talking rubbish, you are liberty to do so, tant pis pour vous![:P]

Edit:  I forgot to say that, when it was first told to me, I didn't believe it either.  It's one of those "strange but true" facts of life.  Makes me smile and think of the Reader's Digest of my youth when there was always a page called just that Strange but True.  I remember reading once that your lungs, when spread out on a flat surface, make up the size of a football field and, no, I'm not going to test that out for you either!

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Minty:

The book you cited was an opinion. And sadly, that is all. And furthermore it is archaic.

Perhaps a far superior reference would be here:

See:

The crux is, Britain, unusually, does not have a codified constitution. Which means lawyers and parliamentarians can and often do, make it up as they go along.

Just one example, perhaps being the Bill of Rights 1689: enshrined within this act is the right of all citizens to bear arms. This has never been rescinded or the act itself repealed.

Yet by one act of parliament, much later, we do not even now enjoy the right to possess them!

High time Britain had a codified constitution, IMHO.

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