French will

[Normandie]

Dear all

Sorry to ask this if it's been covered before - can't seem to search for it easily ...

but I read recently that a French will can be drawn up by hand, signed and dated and is perfectly valid.  (If this is true I guess that it will have to be in French rather than in English or could it be in English and translated if and when it's required?!).

Is this really true or should you really see a notaire?

I'm sorting out my English one (UK resident) with a solicitor but feel that I should also have a French one to cover my property in France bought as an SCI.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Normandie

[Will]

Yes, what you refer to is the testament olographique and it is perfectly valid. It must, of course, be in French, and must be writen by hand, by yourself (or in the case of somebody unable to read or write - still a possibility - a notaire can write it for you). It should be lodged with a bank or notaire for safe keeping. Most notaires will not charge, or only charge a very nominal fee, for sorting out such a will.

You can of course also do a full-blown, witnessed, French will, but in most cases it is not really necessary (yours, with property bought with an SCI, may be one of those cases as you are talking about a company rather than an individual).

You will often be told that an English will is not recognised in France. This is not necessarily so, French succession law will always take precedence so your English will can only be recognised if it complies with French law.

[Normandie]

Thanks for that info Will.

I think I really do need to take advice from an English speaking French law/tax expert but I've not done it yet due to the expense (and setting up the SCI was a slow painful experience in itself with the company I used in Portsmouth so I don't really want to go back to them).

My latest English will solicitor said not to put the French property into my English will but my previous Solicitor (now retired) did so I'll ask them to do it anyway as I think the first solicitor was right.

If anyone has a good contact for French law(re wills)/tax advice pls let me know.  I've made a few investigation but so far they want to talk fees before any discussion whatsoever!  Do the Blevins type books cover these issues in great detail?

I'd like to get it settled and then forget about it all for a while!

Over + out - off home now!

Many thanks

Bon soiree

 

Normandie

 

[Llwyncelyn]

Dear Will are you with the greatest of respect absolutely sure that a French will takes preference?  Surely centres of economic interests where one is ordinarily resident come into play?  If not then the Dean of my Law School and yes some years ago is sadly adrift on his so-called knowledge?

I recently appeared in front of a Tribunal back home and whilst on unrelated matters still concentrated upon where the appellant was ordinarily resident.

As to an SCI surely that is only a vehicle for the purchase with the 'Directors or owners' of the business perhaps living in the UK.

regards

[Llwyncelyn]

Please see my other posting.  But I too have ring-fenced my English Will from my French and my advice from a huge provincial firm in Bristol was to do exactly that.  I have in the time between the original posting and this come across their advice and that is what I have posted here.  Obviously for reasons of confidentiality and other matters I cannot copy the letter and would for self preservation recommend you take appropriate professional advice.

[Pickles]

My understanding of the situation is this:

If you are ordinarily resident in France at the time of your death, then French succession law takes precedence.

If you are ordinarily resident in the UK at the time of your death, then it is possible for UK inheritance law and hence a UK will to take precedence over French succession law if you have invoked the Hague Convention in the purchase of your French property. However, French Inheritance tax law will still apply to your French assets and their distribution.

Returning to the original point, I was advised by a French notaire that the basic, handwritten French will (which must NOT be typed) should not be witnessed (contrary to UK wills) and if it carried the signature of a witness then it would be invalid (although other forms of will are witnessed by a notaire). I was also informed that it must actually be written in France to be valid. Not that anyone is likely to check up but if you suspect that you have litigious heirs, then a claim that the will was not physically written in France could  in theory render it invalid, if proved. (How?). The basic handwritten will can then be lodged with a notaire, who will then inform a central registry. The notaire gave us a simple example to follow.

Pickles

[Normandie]

Thanks for your replies.

As my property is an SCI it makes a difference.  Also, I am UK resident but the other shareholder is not but we both need valid wills.

So ... on reflection I've contacted the office that set up my SCI for some professional advice and - probably after a couple of reminders! they may contact me so I'll post the outcome so's you know!

Best wishes

 

Normandie

 

 

[Normandie]

I've received a reply:

 

I confirm that your English Will can cover the dealing of the French shares. (ie the SCI)

 

My understanding is that you all intend to remain UK domiciled with no intention to relocate to France in which case the SCI's shares will pass under UK inheritance Law under your Will. However it is important to remember that the shares will still remain subject to French inheritance tax.

 

Unfortunately one partner is domiciled in France so this isn't so clear after all - doh!

 

Will have to see what the English solicitors have to say ...

[Llwyncelyn]

Fine I understand and this with respect is very much in line with my earlier reply.  Will?

However shares in the SCI are these (and here pse forgive me) like shares in a UK company and can be say £1 each and with a minimum of £2 issued and then the rest is by way of borrowings either from the Directors or a bank?  Or say for ease of the arithmetic that the SCI bought a property at 200,000 euros and with two joint owners do they then own shares of 100,000 each in the SCI.  Then say the property is sold for 400,000 euros are the then shares worth 200,000 to each of the investors and if then the Directors or whatever the investors in SCI are called lent the original monies to the SCI do they then only get taxed upon the 200,000 profit?

I wish I had taken European and particularly French law when I was doing my bit for there does appear to be a gap and where one is given first class advice and at a fee level that one can afford?