Moving to France

[Sunday Driver]

Just to clarify matters......

The information posted by Chessfou concerning the rights of EU citizens to free passage was obtained from the European Commission website and states (inter alia) that in order to exercise your right to residence in another member state, you have to obtain a residence card and provide proof that you comply with their conditions of residence.

However, this general statement does not reflect the situation in France.  According to French domestic law - which is the applicable standard here, rather than the EU document - EU nationals no longer require a residency permit.  That being the case, the mechanism for determining their level of resource on arrival here no longer exists.

Furthermore, although the EU document mentions the condition that you have sufficient resources to avoid you and your family becoming a burden on the social assistance scheme of the host member state, again, this does not reflect the situation in France.  For example, the right to CMU de base is available to any EU citizen who has been in stable residence in France for more than three months and who is below an specific income threshold. Residence is simply proved by way of rent book, utility bills, carte grise, etc.

In Steve's case, he is a resident of Sharjah who periodically visits his holiday home in France.  Neither he nor his wife fall within the criteria for French residency therefore they are simply free to come and go whenever they wish.

 

[chessfou]

Just to clarify matters ... (my emphasis)

Séjour des citoyens de l'Union européenne

L'article 23 de la loi n° 2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006  relative à l'immigration et à l'intégration modifie les règles sur le séjour des citoyens communautaires et des membres de leur famille.   Il instaure à leur profit un droit au séjour permanent. Il prévoit également que les citoyens communautaires désireux de s'établir en France doivent se faire enregistrer auprès de leur commune de résidence dans les 3 mois suivant leur arrivée.  Nos fiches seront mises à jour dès la parution du décret d'application qui doit venir préciser ces nouvelles mesures.  Dans l'attente, les dispositions du décret n°94-211 du 11 mars 1994   réglementant les conditions d'entrée et de séjour en France des ressortissants des Etats membres de la Communauté européenne bénéficiaires de la libre circulation des personnes restent applicables.

as in:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N123.xhtml?&n=Europe&l=N9

We knew changes were afoot (hence my frequent references to "grey area" and "getting away with it"). Hopefully the precise detail of these new measures won't be too long in appearing.

PS. would you sooner carry your passport with you all the time or your Titre de Séjour? If you choose passport and (like my wife) you have only the one, what are you going to do when you have to send your passport off for renewal? Rely on a photocopy?

[powerdesal]

SD,

thanks for the clarification ( I think!!!!).

Chessfou,

By way of clarification, I, and my wife, are EU citizens, both born and bred in UK. We just happen to live at the moment in Sharjah.

[chessfou]

The best thing I can suggest is that you keep an eye on this page

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N123.xhtml?&n=Europe&l=N9

for updates (there are miscellaneous utilities, some web-based, that will inform you as and when the page changes - a quick Google should turn them up).

Personally (as we have done), I would get a Titre de Séjour (even if it will not be necessary in future) because it makes life so much simpler.

[Sunday Driver]

At the risk of prolonging this circular debate, my original point was that you don't have to prove resources to obtain a residence permit because under the present rules, you don't need one.  As that is the case, then it can't be a grey area and there'd be no question of getting away with it.  Until any legislatative changes are announced the status quo remains, as confirmed in your extract from Vos Droits. 

Interestingly, Article 23 of Law 2006-911 provides for the following amendments to the current regulations:

Except where they constitute a menace to public order, every EU citizen, citizen of an EEE state or Swiss citizen has the right to reside in France for a period greater than three months, if they satisfy one the following conditions:

-  if they carry out a professional activity in France;

- if they and their family have sufficient disposable income so as not to become a burden on the social security system or the health system;

- if they are registered for formal education or professional training and they meet the resource condition above;

- if they are under 21 years of age or are a conjoint or child and living with someone who meets the above conditions;

Persons who meet the above conditions who wish to establish their principal residence in France will have to register with the Maire of their commune of residence within three months of their arrival.

They will not required to hold a residence permit.  If they request one, they will be issued with a permit.

So it would seem that the exemption from holding a residence permit will remain the same as now. 

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

And if you're really worried about carrying a passport around all the

time, get a French driving licence. There are very few identification

requirements in France that are not satisfied by one of these.

Actually, in some ways they're better than a passport as they have an

address on them.

[andyh4]

Jon

I thought it was not a requirement to update you driving licnece address in France (just as in the UK), so it only provides a better form of identity to those who do  not know this.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="andyh4"]

Jon

I thought it was not a requirement to update you driving licnece

address in France (just as in the UK), so it only provides a better

form of identity to those who do  not know this.

[/quote]

Now, I thought it was an offence not to update your address...France

tends to be quite rigid about that sort of thing. Someone will know

for certain, I am sure.

[Sunday Driver]

In the UK, it is a requirement to notify the DVLA of a change of address - but only within the UK.  If you move abroad, then no address change is required.

In France, notifying a change of address for your national identity card or driving licence is not obligatory.  They are solely identity documents, they do not prove address.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

In France, notifying a change of address for your national

identity card or driving licence is not obligatory.  They are

solely identity documents, they do not prove address.

 [/quote]

Thanks - I'm slightly surprised, I confess, particularly about the ID card. Would this apply to CDS / TDS too?

[Sunday Driver]

If you hold a titre de sejour and you move address, then you need to renew it.

 

[Teamedup]

Now trying to get a prefecture to do that could be difficult. My son moved and his new prefecture said that as he didn't need one, there was no need to change the address. Now what the flics would say about that I have no idea, but I might find out, especially as he's a young man he gets regularly stopped and controlled........ don't they all!

[Loiseau]

TeamedUp, is it really you?   [:D]

Welcome back!

 

Angela

[yann]

we are UK residents with a second home in France, can we stay in France more than 6 months within a year without any changes to our income/tax etc.. ?

[Cassis]

In a word - no.  You'll be French resident for purposes of income tax etc.