mint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 this is a MUST READ because you are ALL affected![url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/18/ruins-notre-dame-billionaires-french-philanthropy[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Betty, I thought that you of all people would grasp the implications straightaway.Here is a quote from the article, citing a book: In her recent award-winning book, to be published in English next year as The Price of Democracy, Cagé calculates that 600 wealthy people in France gave between €3m and €4.5m to Macron’s election campaign. In other words, 2% of all donors made up between 40 % and 60% of all En Marche funding. Within a few months, the new president cut taxes on the wealthy, giving his richest donors “a return of nearly 60,000% on their investment”. Just as with Notre Dame – a tiny deposit, a lot of influence and one hell of a payout.OK, I do know that you are not fiscally resident in France but even so this has echos everywhere else, don't you think?Is it acceptable that money can buy you influence beyond your dreams, can buy you presidents, whole governments?Don't know what we as individuals can do about that but it's an uncomfortable subject on which to reflect.Perhaps though, Betty, you belong to the global elite and you already know all about these inner workings of social and political life?[:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Sadly, mint, that's as much "news" as the fact that Queen Victoria is deceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Yes, I agree, it's not "news" as such. Still, IMHO, it's pretty stark when you read actual figures and current examples.I must admit I had my doubts even as Notre Dame was burning and the pledges were coming in thick and fast. BUT, but, but, I was half hoping that my cynicysm might for once be misplaced[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Well, the money for Notre Dame is not all needed yet so maybe it will come in as needed from these donors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 The money should have gone to public services through taxation rather than given to greedy billionaires.Its sad that people cannot see how it affects them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 The government of any country can only have taxpayers money if they use it correctly which the French do not. For example, a small case, l’ affaire des homards this week, or 60 billion wasted on duplicated central and regional and government services.Some of the rich you wish to punish with your mindless taxation have created thousands upon thousands of jobs in a country where job creation hindered by excess regulation and the rest.Or to take the British example, how much has been stolen from the NHS over the years - it runs into billionsYes, Cuba is an example, an example of equal wages for everyone and equal levels of poverty, as is Venezuela and we all know how successful they have been!There is a limit to public services, dickduck,Corbyn would destroy wealth, destroy the middle classes and also destroy democracy as he aint no democrat.Remember too that Macdonnell wants to nationalise land and build tower blocks in every village, as well as allying the UK with Cuba.One could go on but the garden and sanity call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I'm still waiting for the Vatican to let us know what they're chipping in for Notre Dame. Because quite honestly the nasty rich could've kept their hands in their pockets and let the Pope dig deep. Well, not all that deep really. The Catholic church could probably beat most of the French Rich List hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 ""We believe the real divide is between the many - who do the work, create the wealth and pay their taxes - and the few - who set the rules, reap the rewards and dodge their taxes."Guess who said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Ooh..let me guess..."the many....the few..." was it Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I would suggest that the pope is running a rather profitable business. As are loads of evangelical "christians" in the US of A.It was, of course, JC, but it could equally well have been Jesus - look at the torah or bible.Shame is that some people shamefully dont see Mints point.Your "how" comment really was so amusing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I haven't been able to log in for a while, and tonight I managed.RE the Vatican, someone said recently that money is a only one way with the Vatican, it goes in, but not out.AND, I remember reading John LeCarre's Naive and Sentimental Lover ( worst book of his I have ever read). I had not been in France long and was getting to grips with the oddities of french life......... and I have never forgotten this, which is more or less a quote:-Then bribe them for christ's sake, what the hell's the french for bribe.'Briber' Angie suggested.'corrupt them' Cassidy yelled ' corruptez '...... but the clerk said that they were corrupt already.And I must have read that in what 1983 and have never forgotten, and truly it helped me understand a lot of things french. -------------------------------------I do believe that a few weeks ago I saw on some news article that the money that had been promised had not been forthcoming.Daresay that some of these obscenely rich people will be shamed into giving.I can never work out who owns french churches, I believe that our village was responsible for the church. Who 'owns' Notre Dame???? If the catholic church, then maybe they should pay. If the state, well, donations would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 It's always handy to look at who the "few" turn out to be. Like Bob Crow, the guy who said he had "no moral duty" to move out of a council house, despite his six figure salary. Or Arthur Scargill, whose housing costs AFAIK are still being subsidised by the NUM and who managed to exploit a gap in the (Thatcher created-how ironic) law and buy a flat in the Barbican at a fraction of market value because he'd been a "tenant" when it was his London base but has rarely used it. Wonder how the "many" feel about that?Corruption...from the brown envelope to the Panama papers. It's all around us. It affects us all, of course it does. Is it anything new? No. Is it limited to the visibly rich and powerful? No. Is socialism going to stamp it out? If you believe that, then have a chat with Santa and the tooth fairy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 1.The la-la land, bury-your-head-in-the-sand approach is not acceptable in my eyes...2.I dont think Bob Crow or Scargill are classed as one of the few. More of the brown envelope type though...3.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris There is a section on ownership in this reference. It might alleviate Iduns confusion, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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