Is it a good deal?

[alittlebitfrench]

@ ET

Can you think of any other profession where the transmission of the virus is less likely that those driving trucks in an international context ?

They spend 9 hrs driving and the rest sleeping.

Like I said earlier, these guys and girls have kept food on your table and the wheels of indurstry turning through the pandemic.

This border closure to road haulage traffic was politically motivated.

It was a nasty move by Macron.

[EuroTr@sh]

Thirty-six drivers tested positive.

It's not a lot, but it's 36 more than you want let in. Given the rate of spread and given that the whole point was that the new virus is more infectious.

I'm not disputing the fact that the drivers are key workers and have been heroes.

As I said earlier, it could be that Macron over estimated the UK's ability to roll out testing quickly when needed. It's a shame that Johnson kept repeating that everything was under control, all hunky dory, the rules can be relaxed for Christmas, until suddenly - OMG this thing is out of control, no, change of plan, Christmas is off. So yes Macron made a harsh and arguably callous decision, but it was a bad situation whichever way you look at it.

And it is not Macron's fault that days after the agreement had been reached and testing was underway, the British government had given no thought to how to help drivers who did test positive. According to the local press the drivers were left to make their own arrangements and try to find a hotel to book into to self isolate. That's callous, too.

[alittlebitfrench]

If you randomly test 10,000 people in France today a lot more than 36 will be positive.

Which proves the point about lorry drivers being less likely to catch covid. Given their job, they pose no real threat.

In terms of the 36 drivers (out of 10,000) that tested positive, most were going 'through' France anyway. I guess in most cases 1-2 hrs.......driving....isolated in a cab.

No one disputes that this was a political move by Mr Macron in relation to Bexit. It was unkind on the drivers. They did not deserve that.

Anyway, my point is that folks are escaping the UK and moving to France because of Brexit. We have read it many times. "I don't like the politics of the UK", "Boris Johnson is a ...." and everyone is a racist so I am moving to France.

Or you have those living in France wishing to get French nationality because they don't want to be British anymore.

But two points.

1) If there is a presidential election today, MLP would storm it. In fact I think the FN will actually win in two years time. That is probably why Mr Macron is becoming more right wing every day.

2) If there was a Frexit vote today, it would be very close. No different to the UK.

So I dont understand why peeps want to move to France or get French nationality with respect to politics.

The two countries are the same both politically and in terms of peoples nationalistic right wing views. It is probably worse in France to be fair.

There was a report on this the other day on TF1.

Politiciens only refelect the views of the people living in the country. Otherwise they would not get voted in.

It is how you behave that counts. Where you live of your nationality won't change that.

[EuroTr@sh]

The point about the 36 drivers though is that they were heading somewhere in the EU and that's why it wasn't just France that was involved in agreeing the testing policy. Yes it has been perceived as a political move but to be fair, he couldn't do nothing. The announcement in the UK was also political because Johnson deliberately switched from playing the threat down massively to playing it up massively, to avoid the political embarrassment of yet another U-turn on a bad decision so he wanted to make it look as if his hand had been forced by a major unforseeable megathreat.

I have no idea how folks in France would vote, I have hardly been there in 2 years. I know the French friends I keep in touch with wouldn't vote MLP or Frexit but as for the general mood in the country, I haven't a clue.

However with respect to the TF1 report, I wonder to what extent they factored in the ability of politicians to manuipulate people. I think that is a lot easier in the UK than in France; In France, the debate before an election is about policies, and it is policies that people argue about. In the UK it's about image and "personalities" and smear campaigns, and a lot of voters couldn't give you a cohererent explanation of one policy on either side and tell you why they agree with it or disagree with it. They voted Labour because the Tories told them Corbyn was an IRA activist and a friend of the Russians, and they voted Brexit because they wanted sovereignty even though they can't explain what it is or why they want it. That's one reason I prefer the French because if you don't agree with them, you can at least have a rattling good argument. I find trying to discuss politics in the UK very hard, people get very defensive and it's hard to keep the discussion on policies and ideas and theories and stop it turning into a personal argument.

[sid]

My thoughts too ET.

ALBF I don't know where you get your 2 hours at most for the drivers passing through. We live within 20 minutes of the N10 south of Poitiers, this is the main road that lorries take to avoid toll charges on the A10 between Poitiers and Bordeaux. Out on my bike I often stop on one of the bridges and watch the traffic, Spanish mainly, some Portuguese and Polish (!), a constant stream (except Sundays). It's 8 hours by car just to get here so for a lorry it's a day's journey and driver's hours to consider, and he's going to have to stop for food and a pee and fuel at least once (!) at my best guess. That's where the risk of 36 (or even just a single case) virus carriers can infect the French population, and they're not even benefitting the French economy, just passing through hammering the roads.

I really think the borders should have been closed months ago.

Whether it's cruel or not, it does show how the port arrangements grind to an immediate halt and I'm sure it was a wake-up call for the UK Government to get something agreed.

Incidentally all the driver interviewed on UK TV were from eastern countries, so the French really didn't have much interest apart from keeping healthy.

[alittlebitfrench]

In terms of 2 hours.....most drivers were Eastern European. So drive out of Calais and turn left at some stage and then back to their famalies and kids for xmas.

These guys are on the road for months. Keeping you fed. They deserved to go home.

Mr Macron shoves 'egalite fraternite liberte' down peoples throats. He showed none himeslf. That is the way I see it. To both French drivers and others in the EU.

The French president is the same as the queen in the UK in terms of standing. Would the queen block the borders to make a point and create suffering ?

How do you bring up kids in France with this kind of mentality ?

Let's remember Mr Macron has recently caught Covid by misbehaving but tells everyone to behave. If you don't, you will get fined.

I would like to add that two of the last three French presidents have been involved with corruption.

Mr Sarky is on trail at the moment.

Mr Sarky is the one who blocked the UK reforms of the EU which would have prevented Brexit.

Stop blaming the UK for the Brexit mess. It is not that simple.

[woolybanana]

albf, do you reckon Barnier or Xavier Bertrand might run against Macron at the next Presidential election? Apart from the NF there seems no one else at the moment.

[sid]

Noooo! They're not keeping me fed at all, they don't deliver here, just stop for fuel and a pee. You can't get to Eastern Europe in 2 hours.

Shutting the border is not about creating suffering, it's about protecting the population. No point in having businesses thriving and full shelves in the supermarkets if half the population is dead!

It IS that simple about the Brexit mess. They (Boris and co) wanted out but couldn't just leave, they wanted to cherry pick the conditions. I always liken it to leaving the golf club, once you're out you can't still turn up for a round of golf or a drink at the 19th. You're either in our out, and I think we'll see in time that despite some drawbacks we (Britain) were better IN. I'll go further and say that if we had been in properly, instead of one foot in, one foot out, we would have been in a far better position to negotiate those things we didn't like.

And while I'm on my soapbox I must rant about Rees-Mogg and his criticism of Unicef aid for British children; he's a person who wouldn't know the first thing about poverty or hunger.

Despicable, all of them.

[Alan Zoff]

Spot on, Sid

[alittlebitfrench]

I respect your opinons Sid.

You see...that is how we work together in the EU. We respect each others opinions.

The idiots running the show don't.

PS....You cant get to Eastern Europe in 2 hrs but you can get over the border of France in 2 hrs.

Having worked in the logistics industry....I can tell you that these guys and girls (once free on Dover/Calais) drove non stop to get back home.

Is that safe ?

[EuroTr@sh]

alittlebitfrench wrote the following post at 28/12/2020

Having worked in the logistics industry....I can tell you that these guys and girls (once free on Dover/Calais) drove non stop to get back home.

Subject to the drivers' hours directive I hope LOL.

[alittlebitfrench]

I doubt it very much EH.

They went straight home and no one was going to stop them.

Portugal is three/two and a half cards from Calais ?

Bet they did it in one.

Well done Mr Macron.

Keeping the roads safe as well.

[EuroTr@sh]

I'm not EH I'm ET.

On that topic, where is EH? I didn't see her around when I paid a quick visit to the dark side, which seemed unusual.

[sid]

Two and half what from Calais ??

As for getting over the French border, it's an EU protectionist thing, no point in infecting the neighbours.

It's 15 hours by car to the Portuguese border, I'm sure a lorry can't do it in that time.

Now we have 200 Brits who left the ski resort in Switzerland and are on the loose somewhere in Europe, possibly (probably) .

How responsible of them! Makes me ashamed to be British quite honestly.

Yes, we have our own opinions I know.

[alittlebitfrench]

Sid...

In simple terms (I have kept this simple), a lorry driver can only drive 9 hours (extended to 10 in certain circumstances) without taking an 11 hour break.

That is what I call one card.

Calais - Portugal is a good 2.5 cards.

Unless things have changed.

In terms of skiing......I bet there are more French than British skiing in the Alpes at the moment.

Should we not be proud of the French either ?

@ ET

EH has left for some reason.

I don't know what the story is.

EH is quite elderly and was not that well as I understand. Fingers crossed she is OK.

I liked EH.

[sid]

Ah, tachograph charts. OK.

There may be French skiing, I don't know, and I don't do guessing (leave that to Boris) but the Swiss report that the absconding skiers were British. There are quarantine rules in place but they decided to flee instead. Hopefully a list of names can be produced by the hotel in question.

I found a report on Merkur.de (can't post a link but Google is your friend) but it's in the UK press and TV too if that's easier.

I'm fond of the French, I don't know about proud.

I think I've done this topic to death now, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[EuroTr@sh]

I liked EH too. Hope she is OK.

Anyway to get back to this deal. Apparently it's well on its way to being approved by the EU.

I had a look at the text. It is loooooong.

[alittlebitfrench]

Agreed Sid.

The thread is done.

I will have words with Mr Macron when he comes around for a cuppa next time.

Put him straight and all that.

He is not such a bad bloke.

[mint]

ALBF, you are sounding more and more incoherent and making less and less sense.  How can you compare Macron with the queen?  One is the elected president of a large republic, the other has no political role, only a ceremonial one.

BTW, are you quite well?  Have you taken your own temperature?

[mint]

And here is a bit more of the story of the "absconding Brits" referred to by a couple of people on earlier posts:

[url]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9092737/Brexiteer-Andy-Wigmore-British-tourists-fled-Switzerland-avoid-10-day-quarantine.html[/url]

[alittlebitfrench]

I'm fine Mint.

Just suffering from long lockdown. LOL.

I think we all are to be fair.

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]You are missing the point B&B.

Macron used people (or lorry drivers rather in this case) as bargaining chips.

You, me, others. In fact in most cases it was his own people.

It was wrong on so many levels.

He showed his true colours as a person.

Macron is worse than Boris.....but not as bad as Trump.

There is a special place in hell for these types.[/quote]

No, I do know what I’m talking about. You are just taking your usual stance. Still a one trick pony.

[alittlebitfrench]

You have been calling me one trick pony on forums since I left you for another woman.

Get over it. We are finished.

[Alan Zoff]

I quite like Macron.

Britain needs someone of his calibre to start a new party with a clear direction. There is no effective opposition at present. Corbyn was unelectable and Starmer upsets those bankrolling the Labour Party if he says what he actually believes.

[woolybanana]

A Centrist Margaret Thatcher?