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RDV for new CDS


CeeJay
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Just received email from Prefecture giving a date of 15th.Jan for interview at Montpellier.

Requirements are the old card, passport, 2 photos, recent bill and a phrase that I am not too sure about although I think it means date of actually moving to France and is " un justificatif prouvant votre ancienneté en France." Could one of you clever people help please as I need to get it right otherwise they will cancel and I have to re-apply!
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The reason I was also surprised is that France has said many times that its objective is to help people to apply successfully, not to make it difficult for them.

Specifically I was hoping to clarify whether they are actually saying that if an applicant turns up in good faith with documents (s)he) thought would do the trick, but which for whatever the reason the prefecture doesn't consider sufficient, they will send you away and bin your application. Which sounds contrary to the spirit of the thing because from what they've said, I thought they were supposed to suggest what documents they will accept and give you every chance to provide them.

So I was wondering if an alternative interpretation might be, if a person has applied for the 10 year CdS and the documents they present strongly suggest that in fact they haven't lived in France for the full 5 years - for instance if they take along tax d'habitation bills that define their house as a secondary residence - the prefecture would in that case cancel their application for a 10 year card and ask them to submit an application for a 5 year card instead. That would be a different thing, and fair enough.

I also wondered whether it was in any way implied that if you fail turn up to the rdv and hence don't provide what they ask for on the date they expected to see it, they would automatically cancel your application. The reason I wondered this is that if the prefecture sends a letter by post to my address in France I won't receive it, since I'm not there.

Like woolyB, I thought that an existing CdS can simply be exchanged for a new one. That is what I am hoping.

However I seem to have upset CeeJay, which I'm sorry about, so I guess I'll have to wait and see.

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It may be that each region - or even departement - is doing things a little differently. It's not unknown, it's one of the... charms of French bureaucracy. Isn't it? [;-)]

Perhaps someone received their TdeS before provision of fingerprints was a thing... in which case I expect that will be rectified via an appointment at the relevant préfecture before the replacement card is issued.

We applied online to change our existing 10 year TdeS (which still had 9 years to run) in November. Our generic confirmation of application received email says:

_______________________________

Madame/Monsieur,

Vous venez d’effectuer une demande en ligne de titre de séjour dans le cadre de l’accord de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l’Union européenne.

Le dépôt de cette demande au nom de XXXXXXXXXXXXX a été enregistré sous le numéro XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX1.

Votre dossier va être transféré pour instruction vers la préfecture de votre lieu de résidence.

Si votre dossier est complet, vous serez contacté(e) par mail pour

convenir d’un rendez-vous auprès de votre préfecture afin de finaliser

vos démarches (présentation de votre passeport/ prise d’empreintes/

fourniture d’une photographie d’identité récente (format 35mm x 45mm)).

Si une pièce est manquante ou inadaptée, vous recevrez un mail sollicitant un complément d’information.

Vous devez conserver la présente attestation pour vos prochaines démarches en préfecture.

Ceci est un message automatique, merci de ne pas y répondre.

1Ce numéro d’attestation d’enregistrement est distinct du numéro de demande de titre

de séjour (numéro « GED ») qui vous sera communiqué par mail par la

préfecture en charge du traitement de votre dossier. Lors de vos futures

démarches, vous devrez utiliser votre numéro de demande de titre de séjour.
 

 -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

ATTESTATION D’ENREGISTREMENT DE DEMANDE DE TITRE DE SEJOUR EN LIGNE : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Le présent document atteste que, conformément à la règlementation applicable, Mme / M. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx a déposé une demande de titre de séjour dans le cadre de l’accord de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l’Union européenne.

Mme / M. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx conserve l’ensemble de ses droits prévus par l’accord de retrait jusqu’à ce que sa demande de titre de séjour soit instruite par la préfecture.

__________________

In normal times, I wouldn't be surprised if interviews were required to deliver new photos or to re-confirm (if the TdeS is several years old) that applicants are still clearly part of 'the system' - ie, tax returns, have health care cover, etc. Things can change over a number of years.

Still, at this virus-ridden time, I think organising a succession of face-to-face meetings in offices would be a bit surprising, but... < shrug >

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Thank you Catalpa.

You sound to be in a very similar situation to me but I applied for the new card in October 2019 when the portal briefly opened in anticipation of a possible no deal exit, and I received this:

"Madame/ Monsieur,

Vous venez de valider une demande de carte de séjour.

Le dépôt de cette demande au nom de XXXX a été enregistré sous le numéro XXX.

Votre dossier va être transféré pour instruction vers la préfecture de votre lieu de résidence.

Vous serez informé(e) par message électronique des suites de votre demande.

Si votre dossier est complet, vous serez contacté(e) par mail pour convenir d'un rendez-vous auprès de votre préfecture afin de finaliser vos démarches (présentation de votre passeport / prise d'empreintes / fourniture d'une photographie d'identité récente (format 35 mm x 45 mm) / justification du paiement de la taxe sur le titre de séjour de 119 euros).

Si une pièce est manquante ou inadaptée, vous recevrez un mail sollicitant un complément d'information.

Nous vous conseillons de conserver la présente attestation pour vos prochaines démarches en préfecture.

Ceci est un message automatique, merci de ne pas y répondre."

Then in February 2020 I was sent a second email that said

"Madame, Monsieur,

Dans le cadre de la sortie du Royaume-Uni de l’Union Européenne, vous avez déposé une demande de titre de séjour en ligne sur le site « Procédure en ligne de demande de titre de séjour pour les ressortissants britanniques résidant en France avant la date de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l’Union Européenne, en cas de Brexit sans accord ». Ce site avait été mis en ligne pour préparer l’hypothèse, désormais écartée, d’un Brexit sans accord.

Le Ministère de l’Intérieur procède actuellement à la mise à jour de ce site afin de s’inscrire dans le cadre des dispositions de l’accord de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l’Union Européenne qui a finalement été conclu et ratifié de part et d’autre.

Nous vous informons que votre demande de titre de séjour avait bien été enregistrée et qu’elle sera bien traitée par la préfecture dans les mois à venir.

L’accord de retrait prévoit que vous n’aurez d’obligation de détenir le titre de séjour que vous avez sollicité qu’à compter du 1er juillet 2021.

Dans l’attente de l’instruction de votre demande, vous n’avez aucune démarche supplémentaire à effectuer. Vous n’avez pas besoin de refaire une nouvelle demande en ligne. De même, il n’est pas nécessaire de vous déplacer à la préfecture pour le moment."

I don't have the little separate Attestation that you have.

I'm currently not part of the system as I've been out of France since 2019, but under the Withdrawal Agreements, if you already held a 10 year CdS you are supposed to be allowed an absence of up to 5 years consecutive without your rights being affected. So in theory I should be able to swap without having to prove anything except ID, but I'm a bit sceptical. As you say it probably depends on the préfecture.

Hey ho, hopefully it'll all sort out in due course.
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"alittlebitfrench wrote the following post at 07/01/2021 17:02:

Numbty Brits living in France after Brexit are really not a priority."

It's OK ALBF you can say it - Especially numbty Brits that don't even live in France.

Thing is I am applying for jobs, and promising potential employers that I have the right to work. It will be dead embarrassing if it turns out the prefecture says I don't, and I have to have an argument about it before they can do the embauche thing.

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[email protected] wrote the following post at 07 Jan 2021 19:17:

Thing is I am applying for jobs, and promising potential employers that I have the right to work. It will be dead embarrassing if it turns out the prefecture says I don't, and I have to have an argument about it before they can do the embauche thing.

The info for WA appliers states that it is not upsetting if you have come and gone from France throughout your life here .. unless an interruption lasted more than two consecutive years.

This gives me the impression that a leave of more than 2 years is a no-no.
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Many friends in France had to wait for literally months to renew their passports, as they had to be interviewed and usually many kms from home. It isn't as if the french govt doesn't give their own the run around, so if they are doing this for CDS's, should be no surprise.

When our son got his CDS last year, he had every last bit of paperwork with him that he could think of including everything on the list given. Ofcourse they had forgotten to mention a birth certificate was required, and he had not ordered to take it.

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suein56 wrote the following post at 07/01/2021 19:21:

The info for WA appliers states that it is not upsetting if you have come and gone from France throughout your life here .. unless an interruption lasted more than two consecutive years.

This gives me the impression that a leave of more than 2 years is a no-no.

Where did you read that, Sue?

The WA says:

"Article 11

Continuity of residence

Continuity of residence for the purposes of Articles 9 and 10 shall not be affected by absences as referred to in Article 15(2).

The right of permanent residence acquired under Directive 2004/38/EC before the end of the transition period shall not be treated as lost through absence from the host State for a period specified in Article 15(3)."

and

"Article 15

Right of permanent residence

3. Once acquired, the right of permanent residence shall be lost only through absence from the host State for a period exceeding 5 consecutive years."

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1580206007232&uri=CELEX%3A12019W/TXT%2802%29

Which I understood to mean that once you've resided for 5 years and acquired permanent rights, which I have, you can be outside the host statte for up to 5 years and still retain your rights. Have I misunderstood? I thought at first it was too good to be true, and I read it many times but I can't see the catch?

Panicking now! I might need to get back within the next 3 weeks if I've got this wrong!

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ET .. am I reading this wrong ?

Royaume Uni pendant un an) cela m’empêchera-t-il d’obtenir une carte de résident de 10 ans ?

Non. Il convient de démontrer la date de la première installation en France. Si le séjour a été

interrompu une ou plusieurs fois, cela n’impacte pas le calcul de la durée du séjour en France sauf si

cette interruption a été de plus de deux ans consécutifs.>

It's from the foire aux questions here :

https://contacts-demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/brexit/brexit-residence-permit-application/
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Going back to the original post, my first tax return clearly states my date of entry into France. I used that to prove my date of arrival in France.

Personally I’m glad that steps are being made to check applications as there have been quite a few reports of second home owners who have abused the system designed to make life straightforward for genuine applicants and have already been issued cards.

I can comment from a position of smugness as my WA RP is already sitting in my wallet. ?
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@suein56 - I took that bit to be aimed at people who were still in their first 5 years of residence that they need to complete before being eligible for the 10 year card. It talks about the calcul de la durée du séjour, and once they've counted to 5 they don't count any more..

I agree that in the first 5 years the longest you can be outside of France is 2 years (well allowing you to be absent for 5 years out of 5 wouldn't work would it!) but after that, as a concession under the WA, the time you can be away is extended.That's how I read it.
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As far as I am aware, for those with an existing 10yr CdS, it will be a straight swop, one visit to prefec or sous-prefec as allowed by choice (I was able to chose where when I filled my application in in mid Oct 2020, and I got the receipt as copied abover including the attestation).

It says that photos, passports etc be taken, nothing else. It implies that new fingerprints will be taken.

For 5 yrs and less, my understanding is that other proofs will be required, but it will not be as arduous as obtaining a CdS before.

As for absences, for 10 yr card holders, I believe up to 5 yrs is allowed, for others only 2yrs at most, but this is from memory and not actual knowledge.

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EuroTrash

Found how to paste into reply!!!!!!!!!!

Nous vous donnons un rendez-vous à la préfecture de l’Hérault, le 15/01/2021 à 14H35 au guichet R, pour finaliser votre démarche.

Lors de ce rendez-vous, vous devrez vous munir des documents énumérés ci-dessous (originaux + photocopies) :

- le présent mail valant convocation

- votre titre de séjour (si vous en possédez un). Si vous l’avez perdu, une déclaration de perte ou de vol établie auprès des autorités de police ou de gendarmerie,

- votre passeport,

- un justificatif de domicile de moins de 6 mois,*(si vous êtes hébergé chez un tiers, merci de fournir : une attestation d’hébergement au nom de l’hébergeant + copie de la carte d’identité de l’hébergeant),

- deux photos d’identités.

- un justificatif prouvant votre ancienneté en France.

Tout dossier incomplet sera rejeté.

NB : Aucune demande de changement de date de rendez-vous ne peut être accordée. Si vous ne pouvez absolument pas vous présenter à ce rendez-vous, veuillez redéposer à nouveau une demande via : http://invite.contacts-demarches.intérieur.gouv.fr/BREXIT

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B&B said....

"Personally I’m glad that steps are being made to check applications as there have been quite a few reports of second home owners who have abused the system designed to make life straightforward for genuine applicants and have already been issued cards"

Shock horror Brit....I bet the French don't do that at all in the UK. LOL.

I read about this problem on some other place. It all turned into fisticuffs. It was quite funny to read.

Personally I really.......ummm...ummm.....could not give a four asterix word begining with S what people get up to.

Given the amount of abuse the system in France gets, a few second home owners running around with a pointless CDS in their wallet is neither here no there.

I think France have more important things to worry about.
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We had our appointments at the Prefecture yesterday. 14.20h and 14.30h respectively, we got there at 14.15h, were both dealt with together and were out by 14.20h! Had to show passports, hand over our current CdS and new photos. Were told there was no need to have fingerprints done as we'd had them taken in 2018 when we first applied. New cards will be sent out by post. What was interesting was that the nice young lady dealing with us had, before her on her desk, the huge dossiers that we had compiled for our applications in 2018. There must be an cavernous filing room somewhere in the building to keep all the dossiers they must receive!
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