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carte de sejour


margie
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My application to my Mairie for a carte de sejour was refused. My Mairie telephoned the prefecture in Angouleme but they refused to process my application. Does anyone know what else I could do to try and obtain some sort of form of identification as it can be so tiresome remembering to carry passport etc around with me all of the time. I would also like to know what documents I should legally carry with me in my car and whether photocopies of the carte gris, passport etc are acceptable? 
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[quote user="margie"]My application to my Mairie for a carte de sejour was refused. My Mairie telephoned the prefecture in Angouleme but they refused to process my application. Does anyone know what else I could do to try and obtain some sort of form of identification as it can be so tiresome remembering to carry passport etc around with me all of the time. I would also like to know what documents I should legally carry with me in my car and whether photocopies of the carte gris, passport etc are acceptable? [/quote]

Photocopies of your CG are not acceptable. In the car you should carry the CG, your insurance certificate and your licence. You should also carry ID. I use a laminated photocopy of my passport, which I had authenticated by my Mairie. Same size as a French ID card.

The prefecture in St Brieuc won't issue C'de Ss either.

 

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If you asked for a CARTE de SEJOUR and are an EU national then you need to apply for TITRE de SEJOUR and they cannot refuse this. A full CdS if for non-EU nationals which is still required. Try again at the local mairie and ask them to pursue this for you. We have no problem here in 29 when we need to replace our old ones.
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Would a TDS or a CDS (if it were available) have the same effect as a French nationals identity card?

i.e. can it be used to travel within europe in lieu of a passport?

I am not looking forward to having to replace my passport just for a few visits to England each year.

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[quote user="J.R."]

Would a TDS or a CDS (if it were available) have the same effect as a French nationals identity card?

i.e. can it be used to travel within europe in lieu of a passport?

[/quote]

Not enirely - you still need a passport to travel to Britain. I have travelled within Europe (Schengen area) on TdS and nobody has objected, but I don't know if this is officially recognised.

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I was never sure about whether we needed a CDS, TDS or anything. We lived in France quite OK from 2002 till 2007 without any formal paperwork. Apart from our passports and a carte gris that is. I dont think anyone is really bothered if you do normal things within the law.

I did register my car on French plates and paid all my bills but never had a problem with anything else.

We are now back in the beautiful UK and my car is now back on its original UK plates.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No. A CdS or TdS are only residence documents and it says (on mine) that for formal identity it must be accompanied by a valid passport. Renewing a UK passport in France is easy.

Arguments about Shengen aside, for travel to any country other than that of one's residence always needs a passport or national identity card - even though you rarely/never have to show it. But if you happen to be involved in an accident or criminal act you WILL almost certainly be asked for it. It amazes me how many Brits come here on holiday and don't carry their passport. Of course, if the UK had ID cards it would be that much more convenient . . . .

 

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I do not have a residency card (it's not required by law) and I don't carry my passport around with me.

Art. 78–1 to 78–6 of the code de procedure penal covers ID checks which may only be carried out by police/gendarmerie under limited circumstances, such as if one has commited or intends to commit an offence, or if one represents a threat to public order.  During such an a ID check, one may prove one's identity "by any means", the validity of which is left up to the individual officer. Though not stated explicitly in the the code, something like a UK photocard driving licence will, in most circumstances, be sufficient. The decision to accept other documents, with or without the bearer's photograph is left to the discretion of the officer.  You may even prove your identity by having someone vouch for you.

 

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Just to back up SD, my Mairie told me that as EU citizens we brits no longer need Cartes de Sejours.

That is true, but you can still insist on having one, they are very useful, even though you don't officially need one.  You do have to provide proof of income as part of the process though..

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[quote]Just to back up SD, my Mairie told me that as EU citizens we brits no longer need Cartes de Sejour.[/quote]Interesting Catch-22.  If you are an EU citizen you don't need a carte de séjour; but how do you prove that you are an EU citizen?  You might as well get a carte de séjour, unless you want to carry your passport wherever you go.

This is pure theory, by the way.  I haven't actually done it; I agree that in practice it's very unlikely to be a problem.  Unless you encounter a gendarme who says "Excuse me, Monsieur, but I can tell by the look on your face that you intend to commit an offence..."

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I'm not surprised the prefectures are refusing to issue residence permits to people who don't actually need them in order to be resident here.  It's a non-obligatory administrative process which represents an unnecessary cost to the prefecture/taxpayer.  Given the amount of people who complain about "burocracy" in France, I wonder why anyone would want to go through the hoops just to acquire a document that's not worth the paper it's printed on...

In terms of encountering a gendarme, the only offence you're likely to commit (hopefully) is a driving one and in the case of a traffic pull, your UK driving licence will be sufficient proof of identity. 

On the other hand, if you're going equipped for burglary, then it'd obviously be a good idea to load up with ID.........[;-)]

 

 

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SD wrote "I wonder why anyone would want to go through the hoops just to acquire a document that's not worth the paper it's printed on..."

That is where you are wrong my friend, it shows the Mairie that you are not here to scrounge on the state and it is worth the paper it is printed on, as it invaluable as an Identity document, particularly if you do not have a French driving license and don't want to carry your passport around with you.  Try drawing cash out of a bank over the counter without a passport or Carte de Sejour, If you produce the C de S, voila cash in hand, no photocopies of passport or problems of identity.

 At one time it also proved that you could afford to live in France without being a burden on the French state........  maybe Sarkosi should bring it back.

Alan you prove you are a EU citizen by showing youir passport I would expect[Www].
 

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Why would I want to show the mairie that I'm not here to scrounge on the state?  What's it got to do with them if I am?  If my particular circumstances warrant it, then I'm legally entitled to apply for state benefits - those are my rights.

I have a card for withdrawing cash which means I don't have to go into a branch and queue for money.  In the unlikely, and therefore exceptional, event of my needing more cash than my card limit, then I would expect to be asked to produce my passport as a one-off proof of ID.  Once I've got the cash, the passport goes back in the drawer, and life is back to normal. 

The lack of a residency permit has no impact whatsoever on my day to day life...

 

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Ron, you don't have to carry your passport with you, anymore than a French person has to carry his identity card with him (my red highlight below)

See here for fuller details: http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/Papiers Carte nationale d'identité

[quote]

Justification d'identité

Justificatifs

Lors d'un contrôle, la personne a l'obligation de justifier de son identité.

La carte d'identité n'est pas un document obligatoire, l'identité peut être justifiée par tout autre moyen :

  • passeport ou permis de conduire,
  • livret de famille
  • livret militaire
  • extrait

    d'acte de naissance avec filiation complète
  • carte d'électeur ou de

    sécurité sociale..,
  • appel à témoignage.

Les étrangers doivent en outre établir la régularité de leur séjour en France (passeport, visa, carte de séjour). 

Attention : les ressortissants suisses et communautaires doivent

présenter un carte d'identité ou un passeport en cours de validité. Ils

ne sont plus soumis à l'obligation de détenir un titre de séjour.

Si la personne se trouve dans l'impossibilité de

justifier de son identité, ou si les documents produits ne paraissent

pas suffisants pour établir l'identité (document sans photo), une

vérification d'identité peut être demandée. 

Vérification d'identité

Procédure 

La police ou la gendarmerie peut retenir la personne sur place ou dans ses locaux pour établir la preuve de son identité.

  • Elle peut être présentée à un officier de police judiciaire.
  • Elle peut présenter de nouveaux papiers, faire appel à des témoignages.
  • La vérification doit durer au maximum quatre

    heures  entre le début du contrôle d'identité et la fin de la

    vérification d'identité.

Vérification d'identité 

La personne peut faire prévenir le procureur de la République, sa famille ou toute personne de son choix.

Pour un mineur :

  • le représentant légal (père, mère ou tuteur) doit

    être averti avant toute vérification, et doit, sauf impossibilité,

    l'assister,
  • le procureur de la République doit être averti.
[/quote]

Based on the above, I'd suggest you apply for either a voting card in your commune or a French driving licence, and carry either with you instead of your passport. That should cover most instances unless your intentions are not whiter than white (this is a joke!) [:)]

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Clair said "Ron, you don't have to carry your passport with you",

I don't think I actually said that you have to carry your passport Clair, I was responding to Alan who asked a non specific question about how you prove you are an EU citizen, ie with a passport,  I was not in tune with his perceived circumstances of being stopped in the street, and asked to prove it!!   Personally I have a C de S and would not be without it,  good for banks for large cash withdrawals and in shops to back up cheques etc.

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  • 1 month later...
[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

I'm not surprised the prefectures are refusing to issue residence permits to people who don't actually need them in order to be resident here.  It's a non-obligatory administrative process which represents an unnecessary cost to the prefecture/taxpayer.  Given the amount of people who complain about "burocracy" in France, I wonder why anyone would want to go through the hoops just to acquire a document that's not worth the paper it's printed on...

In terms of encountering a gendarme, the only offence you're likely to commit (hopefully) is a driving one and in the case of a traffic pull, your UK driving licence will be sufficient proof of identity. 

On the other hand, if you're going equipped for burglary, then it'd obviously be a good idea to load up with ID.........[;-)]

New to this forum so if I'm repeating something that's been talked about please forgive.  My husband and I, retired, American citizens are now awaiting our Visas in order to move to and live in France for an unspecified amount of time (could be several years, could be the rest of our lives).  We have been told that we must report to either the Le Mairie or the La Prefecture within 7 days of moving to where we will be living and present all the paperwork that was required to get our Visas in order to apply for a Carte de Sejour.  At that time we would receive a receipt showing that we had applied and that about five or six months down the line we would get the actual "Carte."  Is this indeed the process?  We want to have French residency but not French citizenship.

Thanks!

Lyn - Winter Park, FL, USA

 

[/quote]
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I have a Carte de Sejour - and I am pleased to have one. It comes in useful on lots of occasions.

I was told last time, by my Mairie, that I couldn't have it renewed, but as I had had one since 1979, I had becomed attached to it. But like a lot of people I had read that I could have one if I really wanted it, and I did. So I telephoned the Prefecture in Perigueux and explained my position. They told me to go back to my Mairie and to tell them to process my Carte as they did for non-europeans. My card came 6 weeks later. The Secretary at the Mairie asked me why I so wanted my Carte. I told her that the French needed a Carte d'identitée, and I felt that it was a useful element; I also told her that I didn't want to be a "sans papiers", which I must admit made her scratch her head !! I was told, "but you HAVE to have a passport", which of course I do not ! I have also travelled to UK on my Carte de Sejour, although the Frontier Police looked down their nose, but they couldn't refuse it.

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[quote user="maureen"]I have also travelled to UK on my Carte de Sejour, although the Frontier Police looked down their nose, but they couldn't refuse it.

[/quote]

This is misinformation.  A carte de séjour is not a travel document it merely allows  you to show that you live in France. They could have refused it, you were lucky, I have heard this story go both ways.

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