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Travel distance/time by car


quintain
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Thanks again everyone

All views are appreciated, they have given me direct experience from persons who have travelled the route/s and that is invaluable.

I am pushing myself towards the St Malo-Limoge (general area) route.

Best Regards

quintain

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

Easy on the outrage m8 [:P]

When we travel we are usually two so one can rest whilst the other drives although it's usually me who does the lions share.

Given a decent night's kip and a reasonably early start I can, have, and will continue, to drive for 10 or 12 hours at a stint and I feel no shame in admitting it.

Just a couple of weeks ago for instance I drove myself from France to Munich, a distance of about 1200km, completing the journey in about 13 hours. Of course I was weary towards the end but certainly not in any danger of falling asleep. If I had been that tired I would have stopped - simple.

Recognise that everybody is different. Some can only manage an hour or two before having to stop whilst others have more stamina. Dare I also say that I am an aware driver, that is to say, unlike many, I do not go into "auto pilot" mode but maintain concentration which helps ward off drowsiness.

The important thing is to know your limits and not push yourself beyond them so please allow me to edit your last line:

[quote user="andyh4"]The original poster is to be commended for realising that there are limits to how far HE should drive in a comfortable day.[/quote]

Comparisons with lorry drivers are a bit meaningless BTW. Firstly all such rules are dumbed down to the lowest denominator and secondly, droning along at 56mph for hours on end and 20mph up hills would probably send even me to sleep in short order !

[/quote]

 

Sorry Ernie but I cannot let yoour comments go without reply.

Back in the 50's and 60's governements tried to deter people from drinking and driving.

The normal repsonse was, well that's fine for ordinary folk but I can hold my drink.  After all if I get tipsy then I call a cab.  Anyway I often have 6 pints and drive home no problem.

Your answer comes across as the equivalent for tiredness.

well that's fine for ordinary folk  = all such rules are dumbed down to the lowest denominator

I can hold my drink =  others have more stamina

I get tipsy then I call a cab = but certainly not in any danger of falling asleep

I often have 6 pints and drive home no problem. = Just a couple of weeks ago for instance I drove myself from France to Munich, a distance of about 1200km, completing the journey in about 13 hours

 

I choose alcohol as a comparison for good reason since its physiological effects on the body are as a narcotic = makes you sleepy.

 

The impact of tiredness on the body is that the following charactoristics are frequently displyed:

1.  Loss of concentration reduced attention

2.  Reduced awareness of surrounds

3.  In some cases reduction of bodily coordination

4.  Agressiveness - shown as impatience, short temperness etc..

5.  Slowed reactions

 

in fact all of these are to a greater or lesser also displayed by alcohol and like alcohol these all kick in long before we actually start to feel sleepy.

 

We would all recognise these symptoms as tiredness in the living room, but not in the car.  Why? becasue we are concentrating on driving.  But that does not mean the symptoms have gone away, merely that we are no longer aware of them.  That is why governments have applied rules toprofessional drivers.  Nothing to do with dummbing down, everything to do with clinical and measurable symptoms.

Just like our former generation drunk driver, driving long hours as you describe is a danger to yourself and other road users.

Tireness is already on the governement radar screens - tiredness kills; Tenez en Vie. Prenez l'air sur une aire. etc..

 

But if you want to go on ignoring the medical advice, then the authorities will bring in measurement and sanctions against drivers like yourself, and I assure you you will like these a lot less than the breathalyser.  GPS tracking and personal tachographs are already proven technologies and there are governement officials who would be just itching to have a excuse to get them installed in private cars.  And if you are someone who does not like the idea of an identity card because of loss of freedoms then think what the above 2 will doin comparison.

 

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Just to check -

In broad terms you think it is better to watch a truck struggle by another at 56 miles an hour because the the truck they are overtaking is stuck at 54 miles an hour because their tachos are marginally differently calibrated. Rather than to see it pass at 70 mph and get out of the overtaking lane.

You think you are better off and safer driving 8 hours at 70 mph rather than 7 hours at 80 mph.

Also if you think the regs for professional drivers are anything to go by check put what constitutes rest for a PSV driver.

 

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First off andyh4 whatever your perceptions I ouright reject your analogy with drink driving. I don't believe the comparison does anything to strengthen the point you are attempting to make. 

Secondly, it is simplistic nonsensense to deny that everybody's physiology is different. It is and as result we all react to situations and circumstances differently. It's also nieve to believe that when it comes to laws about safety they are not dumbed down.

Let me illustrate my point in a practical way.

For many many years my personal sleep pattern has been from midnight to maybe 5:30 yet even with this admitted minimal amount of sleep I know that I can function perfectly acceptably for the balance of a 24 hour period. I know this because I've done it countless times and continue to do it on a daily basis.

Last night I went to bed as usual around midnight but because I'm in an unfamiliar place I woke at around 4:30, early even for me, but I got up, had a cup of coffee and got stuck into loading my trailer with stuff which is coming back to France with me on Monday. At 8:00 I took a train to London, attended to some business then collected a car I had bought and drove it back to Suffolk arriving back at about 5 pm. An hour or so later I went out again by car to visit a couple of people, came home, had some dinner and am currently sitting here at the computer and I have to tell you that I don't feel particularly tired at all yet and doubt I will retire before my usual hour.

I wonder where you might be right now after a busy 20 hour day ?

Is my routine normal, ? - you bet your life it isn't - but that is my whole argument.

I very well know the signs of tiredness as I know my own personal limits and drive within them.

I'm sure we all know somebody who can barely walk and talk on under 8 or 10 hours per night and with less will be like a zombie during the day at risk of nodding off at the slightest opportunity. I wouldn't want to accept a lift home from such an individual at the end of a day.

I wonder what "clinical and measurable symptoms" you refer to. It sounds trite and anecdotal to me. Where's your evidence.

Lets for a moment imagine they took a cross section of drivers and subjected then to some measure of tiredness.

X number would fail after maybe 6 hours, another X after maybe 8 hours and others only after 10 hours or possibly more. Where are they going to set the benchmark for safe driving ?

With hard evidence that a proportion of drivers are a danger through tiredness after only 6 hours what choice would thay have but to set that as the benchmark, it would be highly irresponsible to do otherwise wouldn't it ?

As for spies in the cab, I thank God that such intrusive and meddlesome technology is highly unlikely to appear in new cars until after I'm long dead of old age !

And I don't do "new" cars anyway [;-)]

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

As for spies in the cab, I thank God that such intrusive and meddlesome technology is highly unlikely to appear in new cars until after I'm long dead of old age !

And I don't do "new" cars anyway [;-)]

[/quote]

 

I hope I don't shock you too much Ernie but the German authorities have already got you taped.

That little trip to Munich, remeber all those gantries you went through - maybe you thought they were speed cameras - maybe you even slowed down a bit.  Well they are sort of speed monitors: they monitor the on board GPS and tachos of the trucks.  Any vehice without one they record the number plate through charactor recognition.  This is to monitor the foreign trucks without Obu's (the technical bit of kit required by all German trucks over 12t) so that they pay their tolls, but the system doesn't know what is a car, a van or what is a lorry.  That requires manual intervention.  So it records and stores every vehicle going through every station.

So they have your entry point into Germany, your progress through to Munich, with average point to point speeds, estimates of where you stopped and for how long.  In fact the only thing they don't have is the driver's name.

 

Oh and Seimens Mercedes are in discussions with the French about selling the system there.

 

Big brother is closer than you think. 

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ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) is up and running NOW in the UK, and has been for some time. Every cars numberplate is logged by cameras on every motorway, all cities, most A-roads and an ever-increasing number of lesser roads. The details are recorded and logged for iirc ten years. This database is accessible by the police for whatever reason they might want for info up to 2 years old iirc. They have to get court permission for older data.

Fortunately (I am 100% dead against this system by the way) it is not yet here in France, but givn the way things are heading, I am expecting it to be introduced at some point in the future.

 

The Galileo european satelites, which are currently being bungled and massively over-budget are to provide a Europe-wide GPS network that is completely independant from the US system that is in use now. One of its uses is for a future satelite tracking system for motorists. Not the helpfull kind that tells you which way to turn at a junction, the spying kind that monitors your vehicles movements( and if UK government were to get their way, charge you accordingly, although this is being "put on hold" for now)

 

Big Brother knows where you go, where you have been, what route you took and how fast you went, what type of sandwiches you bought in the petrol station and whether you washed your hands after you peed.

 

*puts tinfoil hat back on and retreats to his cave

 

[geek]

 

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[quote user="andyh4"]In fact the only thing they don't have is the driver's name.[/quote]Or drivers in the plural, 3 in the car and we swapped regularly didn't we [;-)]

[quote user="andyh4"]Big brother is closer than you think.[/quote]I'm glad I'm not of the same pessimistic mind set as you seem to be andyh4 and I'm unconvinced that the nosey pr**ks haven't got much bigger fish to fry than me.

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We travel to Limousin, about 50 miles north of Limoges, directly east of La Rochelle, four times a year to visit our 'maison secondaire'.  We have tried many different routes and ferry crossings and have found that the route through Rouen, Evreux, Dreux and Chartres (N154) on to the A10 to the A71 just north of Orleans, then A20 is by far the quickest and cheapest.  We tried the A28 but found that it added about 60 miles and 1 hour to the journey and the motorway tolls were at least twice those on the A20 route. We used to sail from Portsmouth to Le Havre but since P & 0 stopped this route we find that Dover Calais works best for us.  We live in the north east of England so we need an overnight stop in northern France but the 300 miles plus take about 6 hours.  We too remember Stirling Moss but we don't try to meet his speeds.  Hope this helps, bon voyage.
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Just arrived home W of Cahors from Dunkerque, with big trailer in 13 hours. 2 drivers (although 'er indoors only drove for about an hour 1/2 !) 

Same as you Dan, tried most options but favoured route is N154/A20.

Only dozed off when safely in the passenger seat BTW [;-)]

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Come on you guys lets stick to metric units in this country.

Despite the fact that the UK was originally projected for conversion to metric by1978 and has since been delayed a number of times, there is no excuse for non conversing using the brain matter. 

  Metrication was a precondition of the UK's membership of the European Economic Community (now the European Union) in 1973.

Why do you persist in using this outdated mode of  measurement/

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Trevour, you have got it wrong! In England our official measurement of distance is MILES,  our cars register the number of MILES we travel and the speed in MILES per hour so it is much simpler to use the 'brain matter' to concentrate on our driving, we do not need to 'converse' or should that be convert.

 

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