Bubble bursting for Ryanair?

[Alan Zoff]

Well, Russethouse, you tried to get the thread back on track but....

[Rose (& Greyman)]

I think Andy's rant (well said that man !) is related to the Ryanair thread, in that plenty of people seem to hate Ryanair because they are single-midedly pursuing a successful business model sometimes at the expense of what the moaners think Ryanair should do for them. A bit like those who have been successful in life and then selfishly want to retire while the uninspired still do 9-5 for peanuts.

Tough on both counts. Ryanair aren't a public service body they are a business and will pursue the policies that they believe will give them the best profit. If you don't like what they do then go somewhere else. 

Why do so many people think they are owed a favour by life. It seems to be the driving force of the UK - too many takers not enough givers. Ryanair have changed the way we live HURRAY for them I say.

[Scooby]

But to give an example - both equally closely related to me.  The one, male, parents jeopardised his older sister's schooling to ensure he got a good education.  She went to four different high schools; he got a place at a prestigious grammer school.  He went to University (with a full grant) and then trained as an accountant. He now has his own business (and a number of properties) but gloats because he underdiscloses his income, puts personal expenses through the books (all his propety renovations and even his divorce went through the company books), pays workers on the black / below minimum wage. From the outside he 'done good' - plans to retire at 45.  The older sister, had her schooling completely messed around and so left with a handful of GCE's / CSE's.  She worked as a shop assistant for a while, then married and had two children.  Partner hit her, abused the children - finally she left with the children and lived as a single parent, juggling several jobs sometimes working 70 hours a week trying to make ends meet.  He never paid maintenance - so she could never afford to go back into education.  She now works in care on a minium wage and still works 60 hours in a physically demanding job a week to make ends meet.  She hasn't been able to make any significant pension contributions and so will have to work to the new retirement age of 68 and even then will probably be reliant on income support to top up her pension.  She has had poor health - she is having her second surgery for breast cancer next week but will have to take unpaid leave (as with the first surgery) because hourly paid care workers don't get sick pay.  She is already struggling to pay off the overdraft from the first sick period.  Unlike her brother she is honest and straightforward, does everything by the book - and would give you her last penny.   She is the sort of person who 'deserves' to take early  retirement.  Her brother is one of the 'undeserving pigs' I was referring to.

[Rose (& Greyman)]

Hi Scooby. I can see on the face of it this supports your argument. However I wasn't talking about those with criminal gains, there's a simple solution to this - report the older brother to the police/fraud squad/his professional insitute. You have a responsibility here. His story is by far and away a minority and doesn't give others the right to denigrate those who have done well for themselves.

Equally a poor start in life isn't a reason for not achieving. It's a tragedy that not everyone gets a good grounding or support in their early years. But it is possible to go on and do well. My father was born in the poorest of the poorest of the slums of Nottingham to deaf and dumb parents. He was never rich but he has acheived great things in my view and has a happy retirement now all from his own graft. He never had to take a penny. He was lucky he had good health and I for one would never begrudge a penny to anyone who needed help.

There are winners and losers in life as in business. It just seems that the winners often get knocked just for being winners and it's not a bad thing to do well. Lets cheer the winners for once.

[artsole]

greyman wrote: ".....report the older brother  to the police/fraud squad/professional institute...... you have a responsibility"

if you took this stance in France, greyman, you would be 'reporting' somewhere in the region of 80-90% of bar owners, restaurant owners, small businesses etc etc!

I know for a fact that most bars (for instance) declare roughly 50% of their take................if not, they wouldn't survive under the french regime[blink]

and, believe me, if that photo of you is recent......................it's imperitive to change your style[;-)]

[Rose (& Greyman)]

yes I know that Artsole. So the regime is wrong and needs to be changed but Scooby was complaining that the guy had unfairly profited from his criminal dealings and if he(she) feels so strongly then that's the best action. I believe if a system is wrong it needs to be changed not turn a blind eye to everyone bending it. It may take for ever but you can't complain about the unfair results it creates on one hand but condone the behaviour on the other.

I have to come clean about the pic. It's the king of cool Steve McQueen from the sixties so more than 20 years old and it never did bear a resemblence. Maybe after he'd finished the egg eating stunt in Cool Hand Luke........[+o(]

[cooperlola]

Wasn't that Paul Newman? (Hey, if you can go off topic, so can I![:P]

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="greyman"]

I have to come clean about the pic. It's the king of cool Steve McQueen from the sixties so more than 20 years old and it never did bear a resemblence. Maybe after he'd finished the egg eating stunt in Cool Hand Luke........[+o(]

[/quote]

 I knew it was Steve McQueen and wanted to post all afternoon , but I didn't want to spoil a good discussion!!

 

[Rose (& Greyman)]

You're right on both scores Coops, so long since I've pulled out the 60s collections and my memory isn't what it was. Still great though.

I seemed to have got diverted down ths line trying to link arguments against a successful Ryanair with other earlier arguments on the thread against successful early retirees, so a very tenuous hold still ..... I think ![:)]

[Rose]

[quote user="greyman"]

I have to come clean about the pic. It's the king of cool Steve McQueen from the sixties so more than 20 years old and it never did bear a resemblence. Maybe after he'd finished the egg eating stunt in Cool Hand Luke........[+o(]

[/quote]

ok... off topic again but I would have to say that a few years ago (a lot of a few) there would have been a passing resemblence...  I think so anyway! [:D]

[artsole]

cooperlola, merde, you beat me to it[:D] yes it was paul newman in cool hand luke!

and going off topic.................whats new![blink]

and greyman, there is 'criminality and there is beating the system[;-)]

I,m an artist, I declare everything......................m'lord, honest!!!!!!!!![geek]

[Scooby]

The problem is the value society places on things - those who work in care, doing a hugely valuable job are paid a pittance whereas those who make money - albeit with a bit of 'ducking and diving' / a bit of cash in hand 'nod and wink' are societies heroes.  We pay footballers more in a week than we pay a brain surgeon in a year.  We fete the Jane Goody's and Paris Hiltons etc of the world but diss the real heroes.

[artsole]

I got my degree in 'ducking and diving' at the Islington University of ducking and diving[:-))]

and I agree, who questions the footballers who don't just earn 'loads a' money', but also get payoffs from ticket sales for the big events. At the end of the day, if someone is 'shopped', generally it's the small guy, but in the world of economy, it's the big guys who pocket the most...............who grasses on those!

[Rose (& Greyman)]

That's a very good point but unfortunately it's down to the free market. These people all had the same opportunity that we have, they just chose to sell their souls to the trashy media or Sky Sports when we wouldn't ever want to do so, but where does the money come from ? The great unwashed of course. These people so many of us appear to loath earn their mega-bucks from us and they saw the opportunity to do that and took it. Most of them have played within the system it's just that we (me included) don't put any real value on what they do. But society as a whole obviously does. It's within our power to change this but I don't see it happening in a hurry. We could stop buying the Sun and donate the cost to a nurse - there's no law against it. Or we could vote for a party who promise to raise taxes on the 'celebrity' wasters. It just won't come to be in the real world.

Equally Ryanair can continue to be slated for poor service, ripoff prices and arrogant PR but as long a Joe Public fly with them they'll keep making a profit. They are obviously providing what's wanted.

[artsole]

greyman....................or should I say, Steve.....cool man![:D]

You are contradicting yourself, how can you support the 'free market', and at the same time criticise it! And at the end of the day, there's nothing that can be done about it.............in fact, I'm wasting my time even discussing it................I could be having another glass of wine and enjoying myself............actually, thats exactly what I'm gonna do......chin chin[B]

[Rose (& Greyman)]

No contradiction. It's called democracy, you don't always get what you want (Tony Blair, Gordon Brown !!) but the majority do (in theory). I don't like some of the manefestations of the free market but I like the alternatives even less.

I do agree about the wine though. Interesting discussion but it's time is up. Time to open a bottle and check Mr O'Leary's latest offers.[B]