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Ryanair Flight Forced Landing due to Loss of Cabin Pressure


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I gather from an interview with a passenger broadcast on Radio 4, that the cabin crew were not very helpful and "nowhere to be seen" at the time of the unfolding incident.  We've commented before on the apparent ineptness of Ryanair cabin crew, and wondered how they would handle a real emergency, appearing to be largely fresh  out of school with little life experience, and probably zero ability to cope with the unusual.  No doubt they have received all the training that is legally required, but I have often thought I'd have little confidence in them if the unthinkable were to occur.

Chris

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It would seem that "a total of 16

passengers together with five accompanying family members have transferred,

at their request, to a local hospital complaining of ear ache.
"

Since it was at their own request, I wonder if Ryanair will be taking any further responsibility to transfer them on to Gerona (as the non-hopitalised passengers are to be) once they are discharged?

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I listened to MOL on the Today program this morning in reply to the opinion of an 'Arctic Explorer' who's name escapes me but was on board the flight.

For once I have to agree with MOL. This seems like a well handled incident and the word that the Explorer is looking for is 'THANKS'

If you don't agree with MOL, then vote with your wallet.

Regards

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"I gather from an interview with a passenger broadcast on Radio 4, that the cabin crew were not very helpful and "nowhere to be seen" at the time of the unfolding incident."

I think I would prefer that bhe crew was dealing with the cause of the problem rather than giving a running commentary on what was happening!!!!!!  Would they expect the driver of a bus skidding put of control to get on the micrphone and tell the passengers what he was trying to do?  To say the cabin crew were nowhere to be seen is utter rubbish as anyone who has flown with Ryanir will know they would have been in the aisles throughout the flight flogging drinks, food, perfumes and scratch cards[:P]

 Its typical media crap and would not even had made the news without the crash at Madrid.  No doubt Claims 4 U and Lawyers 4 U will be inundated by claims for compenstaion for ear discomfort caused by a steep descent, which those of us who flew in the 70's experienced on every flight and took boiled sweets to suck on to help.   I hope brother tells them where to shove their claims[:P]

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[quote user="ChrisnJulie"]I gather from an interview with a passenger broadcast on Radio 4, that the cabin crew were not very helpful and "nowhere to be seen" at the time of the unfolding incident.  We've commented before on the apparent ineptness of Ryanair cabin crew, and wondered how they would handle a real emergency, appearing to be largely fresh  out of school with little life experience, and probably zero ability to cope with the unusual.  No doubt they have received all the training that is legally required, but I have often thought I'd have little confidence in them if the unthinkable were to occur.[/quote]

With the greatest respect, the passenger interviewed on Radio 4's Today programme this morning ("Arctic explorer Pen Hadow") was simply giving his impressions without being aware of the standard operating procedures that the crew - both flight deck and cabin - would be implementing. These procedures will be pretty similar across most airlines and aircraft types, and hence not unique to Ryanair or any other LCC.

Of course they were "nowhere to be seen" - in such a situation they are generally required to get an emergency oxygen supply for themselves, sit down and strap in, at least for the controlled emergency descent to a flight level where the emergency oxygen is no longer needed - typically 8,000 feet. If there is any buffeting on the way down, it is not considered a good idea to have unrestrained objects - live or inanimate - flapping around where they can cause damage to themselves or passengers. Equally the cabin crew are going to be of no use if they are incapacitated through not getting themselves hooked up to an oxygen supply PDQ.

In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, the cabin crew are no better informed as to what has caused this than the rest of you. They are trained to react appropriately to the circumstances. Whilst they are wearing the emergency oxygen masks, they cannot make announcements because the mask gets in the way. Ditto for the flight crew, who also would have been rather busy with getting their own supply of emergency oxygen, getting the plane down safely to a height where the additional oxygen was no longer necessary, then communicating with ATC to negotiate an emergency divert, etc. On some aircraft, I understand that the PA systems can be programmed to automatically broadcast a depressurisation message, but this is not a requirement. IF the flight crew get time in between their tasks, they might wish to issue a PA, but generally it is best if they concentrate on aviating and navigating and communicating with services on the ground.

Similarly, comments have been made that the emergency oxygen failed to operate, which raises 2 issues:

1: in order to get the emergency oxygen to flow, the mask has to be pulled towards you - if this is not done, then the oxygen does not flow.

2: the clear bag in the emergency oxygen will quite often NOT INFLATE: the emergency oxygen flow is still happening, but just because the bag has not inflated does not mean that the system is not working.

Regards

Pickles

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The reason for any perceived lack of communication / assistance was quite simply because the cabin crew are required to don their oxygen masks just like everybody else. The pilots would have done the same, thus making announcements somewhat difficult - they probably (literally) had their hands full flying the aeroplane safely to its diversion airport.

Although it must have been very scarey (and I would have been no exception), it sounds to me as though the whole incident was handled professionally. Nobody seriously hurt: plane landed safely: arrangements made to take the passengers on to their destination either by air or coach.

I'm neither a particular fan nor a critic of Ryanair, but it was inevitable that the 1st major glitch should bring out the 'knockers' in spades.  To me, this event underscores the need for all of us to take more heed of the safety briefings, which we all regularly ignore.

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Merely passing on what was allegedly said by a passenger, not passing on my own personal opinions on the incident.  As ex-NATS I'm well aware of procedures in aircraft decompression emergencies.  Although in the current climate following the Spanair incident, I would have thought greater emphasis on passenger reassurance was worth consideration, and would have been quite feasible under the circumstances...

My previous experiences of Ryanair cabin crew, and my opinions ascribing thereto still stand.

Chris

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[quote user="ChrisnJulie"]Merely passing on what was allegedly said by a passenger, not passing on my own personal opinions on the incident.[/quote]

I think that was quite clear from your post.

[quote user="ChrisnJulie"]As ex-NATS I'm well aware of procedures in aircraft decompression emergencies.  Although in the current climate following the Spanair incident, I would have thought greater emphasis on passenger reassurance was worth consideration, and would have been quite feasible under the circumstances...[/quote]

The BBC's website NOW says that "Passengers also complained that the flight crew failed to tell them immediately why the aircraft was descending so quickly." (my italics)

Yes, it would have been nice to know but this was probably not a reasonable expectation (and I don't think that you were expecting them to make a PA in this period).

The BBC's website now also says, quoting MO'L "As the passengers confirmed the pilot did make an announcement once he

got down to 8,000ft, when it's safe to take oxygen masks off." This may not have been clear in the Today programme broadcast. I think that this is probably what you would expect, and it does seem to have happened.  

[quote user="ChrisnJulie"]My previous experiences of Ryanair cabin crew, and my opinions ascribing thereto still stand.[/quote]

You are of course entitled to your opinion. From my own experience, I've seen some Ryanair cabin crews who were obviously highly motivated people, and also cabin crew members from Ryanair and others (both LCC and flag carriers) who probably were in the wrong job. I don't think that Ryanair has the monopoly of the latter. When push comes to shove, I think and expect that they will react appropriately and responsibly. Having said all of that, cabin depressurisation is bound to be a very unpleasant experience for all concerned.

Regards

Pickles

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I have just googled 'Pen Hadow' 'arctic explorer'.

Seems as though he has a business as a motivational speaker, author etc. After his display on Radio 4 this morning write Memo to self  'Don't book this guy for the next conference'

Regards

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The aircraft puts down at Limoges at 1130 pm.......Ryan Air then "Find " another aircraft and a crew in the middle of the night ... and get it to Limoges..... and it takes off with the passengers keen to finish their journey at 0330........4 hours ...seems  pretty good to me .

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[quote user="biggles"]I have just googled 'Pen Hadow' 'arctic explorer'.

Seems as though he has a business as a motivational speaker, author etc. After his display on Radio 4 this morning write Memo to self  'Don't book this guy for the next conference'[/quote]

Trying to put this into perspective, I think we need to give him a break ... after all, he was being interviewed this morning as "frightened passenger following disturbing experience" but his (understandably) subjective views were being given the credibility of an expert opinion. I don't think that he would wish to represent himself as an aviation expert. I think that most of us would end up sounding like a prat if our comments were subjected to the usual sensationalist overblowing of the media. "Aircraft has technical fault; makes safe precautionary landing" does not make a good headline nor news story.

Regards

Pickles

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Not to minimise what was obviously a highly traumatic experience but I do find Mr Haddow's comments a bit alarmist and irresponsible.

"We have been through a genuine life-threatening emergency. The runway

had fire engines all the way down the line, this was a full-on

situation."

Even if there was a depressurisation, as opposed to just an indication, it can only have been partial so I don't see how the flight or passengers were ever in any 'genuine life-threatening emergency' plus the deployment of the ground resources would have been 100% routine.

Anyway, exactly what qualifies this particular gentleman, who, IMO at least, has demonstrated himself to be a pickled onion short of a ploughmans lunch by walking to the N Pole, as an expert in aviation [:-))]

As for not telling passengers what's going on well they had been. In the safety brief it is clearly stated that 'in the event of a loss of cabin pressure masks will appear...pull them towards you' etc. and it is also demonstrated what to do with them. To expect a running commentary is unreasonable as in such a situation the pilots sole task is to maintain control of his aircraft and bring it to safety. For my part I'd rather he applied himself totally to the job in hand and if he can communicate with the passengers along the way without compromising that then all well and good.

Touching on the Madrid tragedy, speaking as someone who travels on scheduled flights in excess of 40 times PA and almost as much again on helicopters, and have done so for the past 15 years, not to mention countless flights to and from the middle east and other parts of the world for as many years again before that, I can tell you that technical glitches are not in the least bit uncommon and to suggest or infer without hard evidence that the fault which delayed that particular aircraft from taking off the first time was in any way responsible for it's unfortunate fate is nothing more than scaremongering. If there is the slightest hint of doubt about an aircraft's airworthiness then it will not fly - period.

Pilots are not risk takers and want to get home safely to their families and loved ones just as much as any passenger.

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ErnieY

Thank you for the note of sensible information and reason you have given this thread.  Sadly lacking in the reporting on all the media channels I've heard today.  Bit like the mis-reporting of Boris's ping pong joke, but don't get me started on that one.

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The unified attack on this fare paying passenger by the forum members is way over the top. What is it to you that he is a motivational speaker? What difference does it make?

He was interviewed about his experience as a passenger. End of story.

Leave the poor man alone - he had just had a very frightening experience.

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

Touching on the Madrid tragedy, speaking as someone who travels on scheduled flights in excess of 40 times PA and almost as much again on helicopters, and have done so for the past 15 years, not to mention countless flights to and from the middle east and other parts of the world for as many years again before that, I can tell you that technical glitches are not in the least bit uncommon and to suggest or infer without hard evidence that the fault which delayed that particular aircraft from taking off the first time was in any way responsible for it's unfortunate fate is nothing more than scaremongering. If there is the slightest hint of doubt about an aircraft's airworthiness then it will not fly - period.

Pilots are not risk takers and want to get home safely to their families and loved ones just as much as any passenger.

[/quote]

According to Wikipedia (always fast with this kind of information), the Madrid crash MAY have been caused by a reverse thrust deflector activating on takeoff. If this was the case, it had nothing to do with the problem reported earlier.

I heard the Today item with Pen Haddow and thought - frankly - that he was protesting too much. I suspect that the producer wanted a "sexy" item on the programme and Mr O'Leary's reasoned response was just too boring.

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From Pen Hadow's own website.

They choose Pen because he's a high-profile pioneering explorer who

grips and inspires audiences with exciting and moving tales of

overcoming all obstacles in the most extreme conditions, and against

all the odds.

Not quite the drivel I heard on Radio 4 this morning.

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[quote user="chrisb"]He was interviewed about his experience as a passenger. End of story.[/quote]But it's not EOS is it. He was not just a passenger but a marginally famous character with a plummy accent which is precisely why he was invited to be interviewed and because of this and his exploits will undoubtedly be regarded by some as a person of knowledge and authority and therefore attribute more credence to his ill infomed comments and observations than they deserve.

Lets look at some of his utterings:

Most telling he was asked 'could you breath' Yes

He said 35% of passengers suffered ear damage because of the speed of decent and were not allowed to fly for 24 hours. That will come as news to the majority who were on their way on a replacement aircraft in something like 4 hours, ears totally intact. Also any ear damage suffered will more likely have been a result of the initial loss of pressure rather than by the rate of descent.

He says 80% knew they were going to die, did he conduct a survey then, if so 100% were wrong.

He bases his assertion that the oxygen masks were not working by comparing the flow to the oxygen his wife was given during childbirth. Over to you ladies on that one !

He complains that the masks did not inflate - they are not supposed to.

I'll admit to not being MOL's greatest fan but on this occasion I have to give him absolute full credit for acquitting him self calmly, competently, and patiently in the face of the crass ignorance of that pillock and the goading of the interviewer.

For what it's worth the oxygen masks on many aircraft, RA included, are not fed from a bottle as you might imagine but from individual oxygen generators which are situated above every row of seats and activated by a very light tug which releases a pin which in turn ignites a called candle which heats the generator and produces the oxygen. All masks above any particular row of seats are operated by the same generator so if one works all 4 work (commonly 4 - 1 for the passengers and one for the cabin staff if they are moving up and down the aisle) so it is physically impossible for the whole oxygen system on the aircraft to not work. Mr Haddow demonstrated his ignorance of this by guessing that the percieved lack of oxygen could have been because pilots had decided not to turn the oxygen on.

If anybody missed the interview it can be heard HERE

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 I wonder if you would all be so rational if you got off a plane in similar circumstances? No doubt Pen Hadow feels a lot more sensible in the cold light of day -  What did you want him to do- tell the BBC he couldn't speak to them because he is slightly famous and it might be noticed ?

The last time I had oxygen was when I broke my shoulder, bloomin useless......I'm not surprised he didn't think he was getting anything through - that's how it feels....

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