Speedferries Problems

[Nell]

A friend of mine drove north yesterday to catch ferry today. He had to re-book with Norfolk lines. Just had a text from him - On the way yesterday he drove via Boulougne on his way to Dunkirk, called into the Speedferry office and managed a refund on his tickest !!! I'm sure by the time I get there in December the office will be just a distant memory....  Oh well, back to my shared glass of Red with J.R. gone native [B]

[Quillan]

Just to get it into perspective they are in administration (with Ernst Young) , not receivership or gone bankrupt. Ernst  Young are looking for somebody to buy them as a going concern. At the moment your money should be safe although crossings are suspended for the 14, 15 and 16th November (probably because the have to pay the French tax and port fees to get the ferry back and we all know how quick French bureaucracy works but don't quote me). More information can be found HERE and HERE .

[Chancer]

[quote user="Nell"]A friend of mine drove north yesterday to catch ferry today. He had to re-book with Norfolk lines. Just had a text from him - On the way yesterday he drove via Boulougne on his way to Dunkirk, called into the Speedferry office and managed a refund on his tickest !!! I'm sure by the time I get there in December the office will be just a distant memory....  Oh well, back to my shared glass of Red with J.R. gone native [B][/quote]

Nell

When you say "tickest" I assume that you mean tickets, but do you mean a refund for a return ticket for that journey that they were unable to honour or a refund of a superticket voucher?

For you and I there is an important difference, in theory the supertickets are not refundable but they have to refund normal tickets when they cannot sail so that customers can use another operator, perhaps we are indeed in that situation?

[Nell]

J.R. - I know my friend uses the supervoucher system, but as to whether he got a refund for the whole voucher, or whether it was just for 1 cancelled crossing for the date he was due to travel, I don't know - all he said in the text was that he got a refund!!

As for my spelling mistakes - I think we should have a vote and send the results to admin regarding the introduction of spell checker on this forum (like another forum I know) Yes I know I can type in Word, then cut and paste and all manner of other things, but hey, why not make life a little more simple and help stop us making fools of ourselves with typos caused by speedy fingers over the keyboard [:)]

[Iceni]

Arresting a ship to obtain money owed appears to go against the principle that unsecured creditors should be treated equally but I never studied maritime law.

SF has serious, probably insurmountable, money problems and even if a deal can be struck with Boulogne to obtain release I suspect that Dover will merely seize the ship if/when it returns. It will be 4 or 5 months before Easter when foot and car traffic levels might increase and in the intervening period no-one in his right mind would now buy an SF ticket in advance - without this ability to rob Peter to pay Paul how can Curt keep going ? He did a good job bringing down prices for a while but being the good guy is not enough.

Those of you who hold tickets may have to just swallow deeply, prepare to make claims on your credit card providers and join a long list of unscured creditors. I hope that it works out well for you.

John

[Baz]

[quote user="Nell"]

As for my spelling mistakes - I think we should have a vote and send the results to admin regarding the introduction of spell checker on this forum (like another forum I know) Yes I know I can type in Word, then cut and paste and all manner of other things, but hey, why not make life a little more simple and help stop us making fools of ourselves with typos caused by speedy fingers over the keyboard [:)]

[/quote]

Neil if you use Internet Explorer then this spell check is excellent and will fit in your tool bar: http://www.iespell.com/

Baz

Ps Now back to Speedferries

[Quillan]

John, I think we will have to wait till the 17th (hopefully its first sailing back to the UK) and see what happens don't you. Theres a bit about the Port of Dover and Speedferries HERE although it gives very little away about what will happen when the boat gets back. I would think with the Port of Dover staff striking on the 18th HERE (assuming its still on) we wont know much from them till thats over.

[FerryGuru]

Heres an interesting Press Release from France.  I think given what is said here I am really doubtful as to Speedferries ever starting a service again or even anyone coming in to rescue Speedferries from the condition they are in.  One thing it does say to me is that LD Lines may well now look at adding a second conventional ship when they start their service.

" Pierre Gehanne has stated in the French press that he believes SpeedFerries simply wasn't economically viable. He has also stated that it is rather hard to hear of Curt Stavis' claims of LD Line receiving

more favourable treatment from the Boulogne port authorities when firstly they aren't and secondly their service hasn't even begun yet.

He also reveals that Curt Stavis asked LD to rescue the company in July and that LD could have had a controlling interest (I understand 51% share) in the company for 1 million Euro (no doubt taking on their

liabilities too). It seems the company was already dying and LD offered to go into partnership amalgamating the Speedferries operation with the planned LD Line route. The catamaran would have been withdrawn and a second conventional ferry provided. Three days later Curt said yes but only if they kept the catamaran.

This meant no deal as LD Line do not believe in catamarans stating they use too much fuel and believe that the route is only viable with mixed freight and passengers.

Pierre Gehanne cites the high oil prices of recent times as killing SpeedFerries, stating that such a small firm does not have the resources to deal such events.

Interestingly the French subsidiary (employing 14) is not yet in administration but is expected to follow.

Source La Voix Du Nord"

[Chancer]

Very interesting FG, it makes a lot of sense.

I apologise once again for suggesting that you may have been a pirate [:(]

I had often compared the Cat with the other traditional ships, to me it made for a smaller crew, much faster trips and turnaround times, in fact I wondered how the others managed to make enough money to finance all the new floating gin palaces that have recently come into service.

I realised that freight must be key but hadnt appreciated the increased running costs of a fast catamaran.

I cant see any reason at all now for LD lines to take over SF if they dont want to run Speedone which is a real shame but if in reality it is uneconomic then I should be thankfull to have made the most of it while it was running.

It looks like I/we will have to wait for formal notification of liquidation before trying our luck with Visa chargeback, to put in in perspective my recent loss (£250 11 days ago) is less than what was extorted from me for one return crossing a year or so before Speedferries started.

It was during les vacances and for my French friends daughter, I had persuaded a friend to let her work at his company for two weeks to improve her English, I told her that I paid for the tickets with my (dis)loyalty points as they would have cost her all of her earnings and more.

[Will]

I agree. Iespell works very well with this forum.

Arresting the ship to obtain money is a non-starter. I don't have the exact details of the financing for the purchase of SpeedOne, but it is certain, given Speedferries' financial position, to have been bought with a loan and the vast majority of ship purchase loans are in the form of mortgages, meaning that the lender has a charge over the ship and money raised from its sale will go to repay the loan. It's unlikely that there would be any surplus to distribute among the various other creditors.

Ernst & Young, as administrators, would of course like to sell the business and let it carry on. But realistically who is going to buy a business that on the last accounts was losing money at over £2 million per year and owes further large sums in taxes etc on both sides of the channel? It's no use to LD Lines, they don't want the ship and will have their own service in place on the same route next year. I would personally be surprised to see it start up again. Bear in mind that the statement on the Speedferries web site was written by Speedferries, whose directors called in the administrators. As Russethouse pointed out before, I have long been of the same mind as Mr Gehanne of LD Lines with respect to the viability of the Speedferries business model.

Regrettably, it doesn't look promising.

[Chancer]

All talk of selling the business has already been removed from the administrators notice on the website.

Its a shame that the government would not have been responsible for their debts, if that were the case chancellor Darling would have had it sold off within the same hour as appointing a liquidator, no fannying around with administration.

I phoned them today and felt genuinely sorry for the poor soon to be ex-employee on the other end and told her so more than once.

[Baz]

JR said: "Its a shame that the government would not have been responsible for their debts."

 

Why should the Government be responsible? Why should the British taxpayer be burdened?

Sad as it is, the Speedferries and its Directors are responsible for not getting their price structure right and they have known for months the likely outcome. Fortunately there is plenty of competition on the short sea crossing especially if you include Eurotunnel and LD ferries next year. If you search there are good deals around and hopefully will continue with current exchange situation and a barrel of oil below 60$.

Baz

[f1steveuk]

I waited as long as I could, but have made a back up booking with Sea France (£23 including the dog!!!). If it is curtains for Speedferries, I for one will miss them.

[Nell]

[quote user="f1steveuk"]I waited as long as I could, but have made a back up booking with Sea France (£23 including the dog!!!). If it is curtains for Speedferries, I for one will miss them.
[/quote]

How did you manage this??? - I have just tried Seafrance and was quoted 98 euro - am I missing something?? I can't even get a sterling rate because I need crossing France to UK and return.

Norfolkline seem to be offering 20% discount to Speedferry ticket holders (you need to supply a booking reference), but you can't book on-line, it must be done by phone.

 

[Quillan]

Actually Jon it was a new Press Release thats on the website now. You can still access the previous one HERE which still says they are looking for a buyer and gives an email address for anyone interested in buying it.

I can see the point about the UK government bailing it out, I mean if they can spend billions bailing out failing, incompetent financial institutions then why not, by comparison, a two bit ferry company. Personal I wouldn't have bailed out either but thats another story. I woinder what would have happened if it were Ryanair, same type of business (cheap travel) but different medium.

[Chancer]

My tongue in cheek comment comment on the lines of "its a pity the UK government werent responsible..........." was a badly expressed dig at how the Chancellor managed the Kaupthing Edge fiasco which cost many ex-pats living abroad (including at least one forum member)their life savings.

It related to the fact that "if" they were to be responsible, as in the bank guarantee scheme the company would have been put into administration and sold on in the space of a few hours before announcing that there had even been any problems.

To set the record straight I do not think that the government should bale out any failing private enterprise unless there is a very strong social reason, I also think that an entrepeneur and his friends and family that have been responsible for bringing the cross channel prices down to a realistic level and breaking for at least 4 years the cartel that charged 15 times more for a single ticket than a return are more deserving than rewarding the fat-cat "bankers".

[Will]

Talk of 'cartels' is all grist to the mills of the conspiracy theorists, but the reality is, they don't exist. Ferry travel, particularly on the Channel, is a competitive business and if one company could offer significantly lower fares and stay in business then it would. Hoverspeed, which had a reputation in certain quarters for being expensive, pulled out. It was widely quoted at the time that Speedferries was responsible for that, so cries that Speedferries is being hard done by sound rather thin.

The main Channel operators are all experienced ship operators, in competition with each other. They work out their fares according to complex formulae involving far more than just taking basic running costs, then adding on a small profit. Factors that come in to the equation include supply and demand, the balance of freight and passenger traffic, capital costs (or charter/leasing) of ships, shoreside establishments and other ancillaries, provision of on-board services, and likely profit versus cost of providing cabins, restaurants, shops, even seating areas. They also have to build in contingencies for changes in fuel costs, port charges, taxation etc, then add on a profit for the shareholders. So it is not surprising that the figure they come up with is quite high, and generally each operator comes up with a pretty similar basic fare.

Then there is a discount structure, usually intended to offer forecast spare capacity at a lower rate in order to get people on the ship, and encourage them to use paid-for onboard facilities. The ultimate discount is the booze-cruise day trip, at a give-away rate. These are discounts on the normal fare, rather than the normal fare being an artificially inflated version of the so-called 'true' day-trip cost. Many people do not see, or do not want to see, this, arguing that the same space is occupied on the ship, etc, so why should their single fare or long-term return not be offered at the same low, effectively subsidised, rate?

Remember that LD Lines started its passenger ferry service with promises of fares that reflected the true cost of travel rather than being artificially inflated, and when it worked out its fare structure it found that this was very close to the base fares charged by its predecessor on the route (P&O) and its competitor Brittany Ferries. The company has since adopted a slightly different model, with cheaper (though still far from rock-bottom) fares being offered for early bookings, usually being increased as one nears the date of travel.

Speedferries preferred to model itself on budget airlines. It could have worked, but shipping and air travel are very different. Easyjet and Ryanair have, to a large extent, created a new market for people travelling by air when they probably would not have travelled before, or not travelled so often, or to the same places, with simple, low-cost base fares, making up the difference with 'extras'. Speedferries probably hoped to do likewise for ferry travel, but for many reasons it was never going to work. It was great when it lasted, and did (arguably) finish off Hoverspeed and cause P&O and Sea France to offer competitive passenger fares for a while, so people ought to be grateful that it lasted as long as it did.

Here are a couple of stories and other documents from around the time of the launch of the Speedferries service:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article419208.ece

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/3848143.stm

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/obb/prog_cb/obb_47/fpa/pno.pdf

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/comp_policy/oft773.pdf

The fact that Europe was investigating the ferry operators in 2003/2004 got a lot of press coverage. The fact that no evidence of cartels was found attracted hardly any attention. It would be understandable to reply "they would say that, wouldn't they", but Brussels has uncovered evidence of cartels in shipping and travel elsewhere.

[BJSLIV]

I also think that an entrepeneur and his friends and family that have been responsible for bringing the cross channel prices down to a realistic level and breaking for at least 4 years the cartel that charged 15 times more for a single ticket than a return are more deserving than rewarding the fat-cat "bankers".

 

It looks to more be more the case that Speedferries were operating at unrealistically low prices, hence their current financial problems.

I suspect that the game plan was to come in low with the "Fight the Pirates" brand and gradually increase prices  to more realistic levels. Unfortunately the response from the larger players , and their inability to source a cheap second craft,  seriously restricted the opportunity to increase revenues.

I'm sure many people travelled with them to support "The cause" whilst wishing that the service had been just a little bit better.

[f1steveuk]

Nell

"How did you manage this??? - I have just tried Seafrance and was quoted

98 euro - am I missing something?? I can't even get a sterling rate

because I need crossing France to UK and return."

Well it may have been just dumb luck! I was considering a back up plan, and as luck would have it e mail from Sea France arrived, and I clicked the link within the e mail, and put in a date for a single crossing, ticked the box for a pet, and that's what came back. I have since recieved the e mail comfirmation, and to make you feel worse, it was actually £21.50, with a compulsory contribution to marine conservation of £2.

Dover-Calais on the SeaFrance Berlioz departing Friday 12/12/2008 at 05:00 - Saver

The 02.30 crossing was cheaper!

The only thing was it did have a 5 digit promotion code in the  email (which I have deleted, sorry) so maybe that's the difference?

Curiously I have often noticed variations in price and availabilty, depending which country I am booking it from

[f1steveuk]

As another "rear end covering" excercise, I have found P&O are offering a frequent traveler deal 9 crossings pre booked for £27 per crossing.

[anniefromwales]

[quote user="f1steveuk"]As another "rear end covering" excercise, I have found P&O are offering a frequent traveler deal 9 crossings pre booked for £27 per crossing.

[/quote]

Do you happen to know what the surcharges/restrictions are on these please? it doesn't give much detail on the website

[lavorgere]

We booked these just recently and I had a long chat will the customer service dept to find out the details. From memory there are no restrictions between end of September and beginning of April - after that weekend travel is restricted and certain holiday periods. However, you can also book 3 or 6 returns at similar prices for use during the same one year period.They give you the booking references and you just book when you are ready - they are obviously subject to availability.

[Will]

It is possible LD Lines might be offering a deal for those who had pre-booked with Speedferries. They don't operate from Dover yet, their nearest current route is Newhaven-Dieppe, but they plan to start Dover-Boulogne in 2009.

This is what Pierre Gehanne, CEO of the company says, talking about the Speedferries demise:

"At this stage there is not much we can do about it, except maybe welcome the passengers who had some booking arrangements with SF and who are unable to travel time being. I believe it could be fair to offer them some very special crossing fares if they wish so.

This being said it is no secret that we have been in contact with Curt Stavis early July, at his request, when SF was meeting some difficulties and, at the time, we offered Curt to help him to continue SF’s operations until sumer 2009 when Speedone would have been replaced by a standard ferry able to carry freight and passengers. Unfortunately Curt could not finally agree to this proposal and we all know the end of the story."

[Alan Zoff]

I see Norfolkline are offering 20% discount for people holding unused SF tickets

http://www.norfolkline.com/EN/FAQ/Passenger_ferry/Discounts+for+SpeedFerries+customers/?gclid=CK7NyKyT_5YCFQuT1Qodyz2TYg

[Nell]

20% discount with Norfolklines  (I posted that on this thread last Friday). You need to telephone book, I did this yesterday for my December crossing as I don't think Speedferries will be back anytime soon..... BUT - check your prices online first. When I was booking the young lady gave me a price that was supposed to be 20% discount, but was in fact the full price. When I questioned this she got out her calculator and took the 20% off.....