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More changes at LD Lines


Will
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Earlier reports that LD Lines was discussing the charter of its ship Norman Spirit to the operators of the Ramsgate-Ostende route from mid-March 2010 seem to have been confirmed.

The LD Lines web site now includes the route, so presumably the company will be handling bookings on behalf of Transeuropa Ferries. The site also suggests that the ship is being renamed Ostend Spirit.

That leaves the LD Lines Dover-Boulogne service in a doubtful state. This route was operated first by Norman Arrow then by Norman Spirit after the former proved unsuitable for fast loading/unloading of freight in Boulogne. A BBC report said yesterday that the Boulogne route will be operated by Brave Merchant. This was previously used on the Irish Sea by freight operator Norse Merchant, before it amalgamated with sister company Norfolk Line. After that it went to a Latvian company and is presently laid up in Gdansk, Poland. As a freight ferry it has limited passenger capacity (sources suggest 250 people maximum, though it seems the Latvians may have increased this slightly).

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it has limited passenger capacity (sources suggest 250 people maximum

But it would make to be an ideal companion for the Norman Arrow.

The Catamaran could be sent back to Dover/Boulogne when LD Lines additional capacity arrives at Portsmouth  in the shape of Norman Leader which is supposedly arriving this summer........If they don't divert it to Brittany /Spain.[:(]

 

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Will wrote  "As a freight ferry it has limited passenger capacity (sources suggest 250 people maximum, though it seems the Latvians may have increased this slightly)."

Knowing the Latvians they probably put a conservatory on the side  [:D]

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LD Lines' latest information - which confirms the BBC story - suggests the new ship can take 'up to 400 people'.

Knowing the frequency with which this particular company changes plans I wouldn't necessarily lay money on the new ship being deployed on the Portsmouth-Le Havre route, even though it was supposedly designed for that service. But I think it unlikely that the catamaran will return to Boulogne, because LD is after the freight traffic there.

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I know that the Arrow was moved from Boulogne to increase the freight capacity, but with what is basically a freighter at Boulogne, and access to the Ostend route perhaps the freight imperative will be slightly reduced. Incidentally I hope this Irish Sea  ship doesn't encounter the same reaction that the Norman Voyager created at Portsmouth with regards to cramped  public facilities though it's probably less of an issue on the short crossing.

I share your fears that the Norman Leader will never arrive in Portsmouth.

In any event Arrow seems underemployed at Portsmouth  but I suppose it all depends on how the freight and tourist market shapes up this year.

Somehow with the gloomy economic outlook I can't see the increased volumes that Pierre is hoping for materialising in 2010.

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LD Lines are moving the Norman Spirit to

Ramsgate and operating the ship to Ostend twice per day. This is in

conjunction with TEF. TEF will apparently sell the freight space with

LD Lines selling the passenger space etc.

The ship is no stranger to Ramsgate having operated there as the

Prins Filip on the Ramsgate to Ostend route, however not without

incident. The ship regularly had issues in the port due to its size.

The ex. Brave Merchant that is coming in to replace the Norman

Spirit originally ran on the Irish Sea. The ship is no where near as

big passenger wise and the estimate of 400 is on the high side and I

would not want to be onboard.

The ship is identical to P&O's European Endeavour (interior pictures can be found here). The ship essentially has one lounge / bar area, one restaurant and one reclining seat lounge.
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I think the Ferryto website needs a bit of updating.

That page is a real mish-mash of old and current news.

 It has the Norman Spirit on both the Ostend and Boulogne routes, while the Norman arrow is supposedly covering both Le Havre and Boulogne!!!!!

 

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Wouldn't you think that the Royal Navy would have spotted an opportunity in the current shambles of the ferry market. All those lovely warships tied-up in Portsmouth harbour would make for an interesting crossing and bring in some much-needed income. [:D]

.

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I'm getting really fed up with all this chopping and changing.  We have been "with" LD Lines and the Portsmouth-Le Havre route since the beginning.  The Norman Spirit was ideal for these long route with plenty of space to walk around and separate quiet lounges etc.  We are now booked on the Cote d'Albatre for a crossing next month and have been reading all the complaints regarding this particular ship on this crossing.  To get a cabin on it, one has to book a 4 berth as there are no 2 berth ones.  There are delays unloading with a wait of up to an hour before disembarkation. We have travelled on the Seven Sisters (her sister ship) from Dieppe and that is an open plan ship and noise was a constant problem.

I quite understand the business problem LDL has with the need to get optimum capacity utilisation, but they are in danger of throwing out the baby with the bath water and may lose more customers than they gain, especially on the Portsmouth-Le Havre route.[:@]

 

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I suppose all the changes are a Ryanair effect. as LD Lines, unlike the traditional operators has smaller margins they can't afford to ride out the bad patches and must continually adjust their deployment in an attempt to minimise losses.

We will all have to keep our fingers crossed that the next big change at Portsmouth, the arrival of the Norman Leader, is

A: Beneficial.

and if it is

B Stays there!

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Although in many respects LD Lines follows a Ryanair-style business model in its passenger services, I wouldn't necessarily agree that the company operates on small margins. It is a major French shipowner, and has a lot of experience in ro-ro freight.

In fact, like most ferry companies, LD Lines gets its bread and butter from freight traffic; the likes of you and me are little more than a nice little earner on the side. So it is freight considerations that govern the deployment of ships. LD made a bit of a mistake with the Norman Arrow; a large high speed catamaran with capacity for lorries as well as passengers looked an attractive prospect, but although it could carry enough lorry traffic to make the sums add up, it couldn't load and unload it fast enough. Hence the move to Portsmouth, where the longer crossing and more relaxed schedule, plus a potentially higher proportion of cars to freight trailers, makes it a better prospect. However it remains to be seen whether freight carriers will be prepared to pay a premium for halving the crossing time.

Using the Norman Leader in Boulogne and moving the ex-Brave Merchant to Portsmouth is already being discussed elsewhere, so those fingers need to be very firmly crossed.

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Booking LD Lines "Launch Offer "  on the fast cat  Portsmouth to Le Havre at £109  car plus two for the crossing..any duration ..

When trying to book this I put in my dates and it went to a fares of £250 or more for the return ....Stupidly ....I left the box showing " return "....when I put in my dates being daft enough to believe as I was coming back thats what you do .

Having used their "Launch offer " go to book link I had expected it to show the  return fare  ....Wrong !....if you want to go for £109 each way .CHANGE THE BOX  TO SINGLE ....

To get this fare you have to make two single crossing  bookings .    Now how many people gave up on trying to get the fare because they had not twigged the words "Single " in their offer means you have to make two bookings and cant use the "return " box .? 

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Using the Norman Leader in Boulogne and moving the ex-Brave Merchant to Portsmouth is already being discussed elsewhere, so those fingers need to be very firmly crossed.

But wouldn't that be the worst of all worlds? A Ship with little living room (rather like the Voyager) but fewer cabins on the long crossing, while the Leader would have acres of cabins unused at Dover. Unless freight really is the only important matter......

If they were going to divert the Leader to another route I would have thought that the new Brittany-Spain route would have made a better home for the new ship, especially as the start date keeps going back.

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[quote user="Thibault"]

There are delays unloading with a wait of up to an hour before disembarkation.

[/quote]

Just a very subjective observation in their defence.

We were at Portsmouth late evening in early Jan, waiting to board BF's overnight Caen sailing. The BF ship docked, followed very quickly by the Cote d'Albatre. The former was very full (550 cars + freight we were told) and there were just 3 Immigration booths open. The last BF cars took about an hour to get through and I reckon that they didn't allow any off the LD ship till half an hour or so after arrival - then they had to 'merge in' with the others.

So, it may not always be their fault: more or less simultaneous arrivals + undermanning by HM Immigration.

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Yes, we have had that problem arriving at Portsmouth just as a BF ferry is also unloading!

 

However, I understand that there is still a delay unloading the Seven Sisters at Newhaven, which has no other ferry operators and only one ferry arriving at a time.  I was told there was some sort of problem (not sure if it is a design fault or crew inadequacies) which means there can be around an hour's delay for car passengers at disembarkation.  Certainly, when we came back via Newhaven, the hour we gained over the difference in crossing times with the Portsmouth route, was lost sitting on the car deck waiting to get off!

 

 

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The Portsmouth delays due to inadequate immigration/customs staff is a big problem.

Two points, though, passenger and freight traffic are dealt with in separate areas so the two should not affect each other. However, from at least one of the berths (the one normally used by BF) the freight and car passenger lines cross, which doesn't help with the wait.

And vehicles are not normally held on the ship if there is a long wait - the operators need a quick turnround. Instead, you are unloaded and held on the quay until immigration can deal with you.

It would be nice to think that this problem will be addressed as part of the new terminal building development at Portsmouth; I rather think not though. The main difficulty is that there is never enough manpower to open more than two or three lanes. Customs and immigration used to be dealt with separately, but now the same people are responsible for both. If the official wants to check inside a vehicle he has to get out of the booth and examine the vehicle there, then return to process the passports. This adds considerably to the hold-ups (there is still a separate customs inspection area for more detailed checks). Finally, the attitude of the staff does not help. Even when a ship arrives early, chances are you will have to wait on the quay until the scheduled arrival time for the immigration officers to arrive at the booth and set themselves up.

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Everyone arriving at Portsmouth suffers because of staffing levels at  border controls, though Brittany Ferries usually arrive before LD which gives them a head start.

However LD Lines will always  suffer delays whatever the staffing levels due to the design of the Cote D'Albatre. Anyone who has travelled on this vessel knows that unless there is very little freight the cars are loaded, on the upper decks, and must wait until all the freight has off-loaded before the cars will be allowed to disembark. Most modern ferries allow simultaneous unloading of freight and cars using separate ramps this is not available on either of the Newhaven ships.

 

 

 

 

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Agreed; although the border controls at Portsmouth are a problem, the real difficulty is the speed of loading and unloading of certain ships.

The same applies on some BF ships when the hoistable car decks are in use (as they usually are with the Normandie, and at busy times with the Mont St Michel) and the middle vehicle deck (Deck 5 on the two ships named) is used for some freight traffic. But the BF ships carry freight on a lower level too, which, at least at Portsmouth, is served by a separate ramp, so freight loaded on Decks 3 and 4 does not affect car traffic.

With the Cote d'Albatre, and Seven Sisters, most of the freight has to be offloaded before cars can move. The same problem is likely to be encountered with the Norman Arrow - it could well be worse, because the ship has stern-only loading meaning that trucks will have to either turn around or reverse.

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We travel from the LeMans/Tour area to West Sussex and back frequently.  Because of the fiddling and faffing  around with disembarkation from the ferries we use the tunnel every time, a longer drive but  minimum delay for customs, and when the train arrives straight off and onto the motor way. I am terrified that if the ferry services don't get their act together a lot of them will disapear and the tunnel will become a monopoly for car traffic. Then we all know what will happen to prices.

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